Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Lots of folks who see these things used on TV think they're good for close range combat. They're not. Here's how I know...
1981 was a busy year for me. I had been promoted to Sgt in near record time, survived the J Dorm Riot at the MD House of Corruption without a scratch, and been made a Firearms Instructor. We had a new prison opening and 300 rookies to qualify on all three weapons, 38 Service revolver, Mini 14, and the 870 shotgun.
The Powers That Be in MD's prison system had decreed that instead of towers at the new prison, there would be Rapid Response vehicles circling the institution armed with revolvers and shotguns. These last were equipped with the egregious Remington folder that was recalled for its propensity for cutting faces under recoil.
They also commanded that ALL officers be taught to shoot from the hip with the stocks folded.
With the help of the FBI, who had run the Instructor's school we attended, we figured out how to accomplish this. We set out to A, learn ourselves, and B, get 300 plus rookies to pass the qualifiers and become safe, effective shooters.
Few instructors then and now were shotgunners. I was, and got tagged to not only fire demo rounds for each 25 officer segment, but had to qualify past 90% score to keep my certification. I did, but it took work.
Long story short, I fired hundreds of rounds from the hip that summer. And, I observed hundreds of new officers and some old ones attempt it also. NONE did as well shooting from the hip as from the shoulder. Most had no problem passing the easy qualifier from the shoulder, but they ALL had trouble doing so in the hip shooting portion. By 1991, when I had too much rank to instruct any more, the folders and hip shooting were history, and so were the geniuses who thought that mess up.
Since then, I've taught some private students. A few have showed up for their first lesson with a PG only shotgun they're never fired. Next session, they'd have a standard stock.
Except for some use as a door breaching tool, there's few pros that have PG only shotguns. And those few are quite specialized.
In my somewhat jaundiced but valid opinion, the effort, ammo and time put forth to get one reasonably proficent with a PG only shotgun would,with a standard shotgun, result in being Abso$%^&*ly deadly.
And for those doubtful of the validity of this opinion or mine, here's a challenge. It's the same one I started on TFL.
Any PG only fan living close to Central MD is invited to a shootoff.
We'll shoot your COF.
We'll use the ammo of your choice.
YOU can use any PG only shotgun you want to,with any accessories up to belt feed and lazer sights.
I'll use a standard stocked 870 with few mods or addons.
We'll shoot for score, time decides ties, but there won't be any. Results posted for all to see.
1981 was a busy year for me. I had been promoted to Sgt in near record time, survived the J Dorm Riot at the MD House of Corruption without a scratch, and been made a Firearms Instructor. We had a new prison opening and 300 rookies to qualify on all three weapons, 38 Service revolver, Mini 14, and the 870 shotgun.
The Powers That Be in MD's prison system had decreed that instead of towers at the new prison, there would be Rapid Response vehicles circling the institution armed with revolvers and shotguns. These last were equipped with the egregious Remington folder that was recalled for its propensity for cutting faces under recoil.
They also commanded that ALL officers be taught to shoot from the hip with the stocks folded.
With the help of the FBI, who had run the Instructor's school we attended, we figured out how to accomplish this. We set out to A, learn ourselves, and B, get 300 plus rookies to pass the qualifiers and become safe, effective shooters.
Few instructors then and now were shotgunners. I was, and got tagged to not only fire demo rounds for each 25 officer segment, but had to qualify past 90% score to keep my certification. I did, but it took work.
Long story short, I fired hundreds of rounds from the hip that summer. And, I observed hundreds of new officers and some old ones attempt it also. NONE did as well shooting from the hip as from the shoulder. Most had no problem passing the easy qualifier from the shoulder, but they ALL had trouble doing so in the hip shooting portion. By 1991, when I had too much rank to instruct any more, the folders and hip shooting were history, and so were the geniuses who thought that mess up.
Since then, I've taught some private students. A few have showed up for their first lesson with a PG only shotgun they're never fired. Next session, they'd have a standard stock.
Except for some use as a door breaching tool, there's few pros that have PG only shotguns. And those few are quite specialized.
In my somewhat jaundiced but valid opinion, the effort, ammo and time put forth to get one reasonably proficent with a PG only shotgun would,with a standard shotgun, result in being Abso$%^&*ly deadly.
And for those doubtful of the validity of this opinion or mine, here's a challenge. It's the same one I started on TFL.
Any PG only fan living close to Central MD is invited to a shootoff.
We'll shoot your COF.
We'll use the ammo of your choice.
YOU can use any PG only shotgun you want to,with any accessories up to belt feed and lazer sights.
I'll use a standard stocked 870 with few mods or addons.
We'll shoot for score, time decides ties, but there won't be any. Results posted for all to see.