Gunsarefun
Member
Maybe a WASR-10 or Tantal with a folding stock? I've never shot them but have seen them and they look pretty solid.
Pick me a gun for this role.
- Thread starter Kliegl
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Bigkrackers
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Anyone else find this thread to be bit on the apocalyptic side of things? A 200 yard self defense gun? If you're shooting someone at 200 yards I'm pretty sure that's going to be called offensive by any judge or jury. And if you're thinking that the you know what has hit the fan so bad that there won't be a judge or jury to question you then I highly doubt the roads would be open anyway as marshal law of some sort will have been put in place.
Flash mobs? No handgun or rifle is going to be much help in a mob situation. A shotgun would be a better option.
I could see if you lived out in the sticks, on a farm or range a good rifle would be handy but in the city or town as a "just in case the vampires or zombies destroy our society and we are launched into chaos" go to gun, seems a bit far fetched.
A good shotgun should get you through any defensive situation you are going to encounter. If it won't do the job then you are in more serious trouble than a gun can get you out of.
Flash mobs? No handgun or rifle is going to be much help in a mob situation. A shotgun would be a better option.
I could see if you lived out in the sticks, on a farm or range a good rifle would be handy but in the city or town as a "just in case the vampires or zombies destroy our society and we are launched into chaos" go to gun, seems a bit far fetched.
A good shotgun should get you through any defensive situation you are going to encounter. If it won't do the job then you are in more serious trouble than a gun can get you out of.
Mike1234567
member
RE: "200 yards"; My guess is this is intended as a multipurpose firearm... not just for SD.
rbernie
Contributing Member
My choice for a truck carbine is a Mini30; I've been hunting for a decade with the 7.62x39 round and have no quarrel with its performance and accuracy. But my go-to long gun for social purposes while mobile is gonna be a shotgun with buckshot.
Maybe a WASR-10 or Tantal with a folding stock? I've never shot them but have seen them and they look pretty solid.
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I have heard a few stories on the net regarding the WASR 10's as being "less than idea", but my experiences with them have been favorable, and have been every bit as reliable as my MAC 90,s and AK47S ever were. Just as accurate to boot. ( It meets my "truck gun" criteria just fine and without the need for optics)
I see no need in spending more $$ on an AK simply for cosmetics, but to each his own.
I bought this one used for 175 bucks a few yrs ago, and have already taken a few hogs with it.
Before I moved into the M14/M1A, I was using the AK/SKS exclusively, and also for hunting hog and whitetail deer. 125gr Win Super-X PSP was, and still is an excellent choice for hunting, and I would not hesitate to use it for defense either. Most of mine shot it better then the cheap steel cased Norinco FMJ back then as well. (If I had to guess, I would say that most of the claims surrounding the AK types is related to cheap ammo, and expectations that it is loaded with the same consistency as match grade ammunition).
This is the same ammo that I use through the WASR10/63 I have now, but this is not the only type of ammunition in this caliber out there now.
Hornady 123gr V-max is another, but I haven't messed with it personally.
I personally do not have a use for anything chambered in 5.56mm, but again....to each his own.
11B
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I have heard a few stories on the net regarding the WASR 10's as being "less than idea", but my experiences with them have been favorable, and have been every bit as reliable as my MAC 90,s and AK47S ever were. Just as accurate to boot. ( It meets my "truck gun" criteria just fine and without the need for optics)
I see no need in spending more $$ on an AK simply for cosmetics, but to each his own.
I bought this one used for 175 bucks a few yrs ago, and have already taken a few hogs with it.
Before I moved into the M14/M1A, I was using the AK/SKS exclusively, and also for hunting hog and whitetail deer. 125gr Win Super-X PSP was, and still is an excellent choice for hunting, and I would not hesitate to use it for defense either. Most of mine shot it better then the cheap steel cased Norinco FMJ back then as well. (If I had to guess, I would say that most of the claims surrounding the AK types is related to cheap ammo, and expectations that it is loaded with the same consistency as match grade ammunition).
This is the same ammo that I use through the WASR10/63 I have now, but this is not the only type of ammunition in this caliber out there now.
Hornady 123gr V-max is another, but I haven't messed with it personally.
I personally do not have a use for anything chambered in 5.56mm, but again....to each his own.
11B
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
My pick up has a 20 inch Mossberg behind the seat.
Some folks are having trouble down on the Mexico border that feel they need to deal with threats out to 200 yards. Apocalyptic? The .gov isn't worried about it
As I mentioned in my earlier response, the terms of the badge I wear compel me to go for the shotgun as my long gun of choice. I could probably ruin the bad guys' day in most foreseeable circumstances with a shotgun or handgun, especially with the option of those hard-core Brenneke slugs, if penetration became an issue. It is simpler, however, if a good general-purpose/utility rifle is available. It takes moment to switch a shotgun from Scattergun mode to improvised-carbine mode, and the fumble factor can certainly happen. There is also the legal angle; many areas require that long guns inside vehicles be unloaded. Except for the Saiga and perhaps some other exotic shotguns, getting ammo into weapon is going to take several seconds, and most gunfights are over in several seconds.
Moreover, some of the people here on THR actually DO live in the sticks or on a farm, or go there frequently.
Lots of good replies, much thanks.
Although I do love the lever action, I think I'd prefer box fed semiauto for this.
Mistwolf, I own an AR myself, and my two reasons for not wanting one are still valid; they don't fold, and the KE out of the shortest legal barrel is not what I would call sufficient. If you'd like to debate ballistics, we can do it in a separate thread.
Rexster, on second thought, I'm not even sure the Sage is short enough. It seems to be a collapsible stock, not a telescoper like, say, the HK's. The width is not too bad, I just need something short, were I to get a gun for this particular spot.
Fragout, good post. I do own a full length M1A, an HK91, and Saiga 12 (AK platform shotgun). The Saiga is not yet converted, I have shot a traditional layout AK. I think I like the M1A's ergo the best, it seems to be all the best of the Mauser rifle, Garand, and box fed awesomeness. Not sure I'd dig a pistol grip on it, come to think of it. I don't own any Ruger non-22 rifles.
JMR, sorry man, but there's people that disagree, like Army folks that use them on a daily basis, you may, of course, feel free to disagree.
Averageman, thank you very much for the picture. That is a good size right there, and maybe I just need a *quality* AK.
Ignition, I do own a Norinco SKS, it was given to me, and its trigger is god awful. Maybe I got a bad one.
Others, I was mainly using 200 yards as a "more accurate than a pistol" metric. Obviously, engaging things at 200 yards that aren't shooting back is wrong and illegal. I doubt very much that it is "apocalyptic" to think one could not be beset by a group of people armed with more than pistols. However, shotguns are a valid consideration.
Fragout, thanks for the pic, between you and averageman, I do like the shortness of the folders.
Although I do love the lever action, I think I'd prefer box fed semiauto for this.
Mistwolf, I own an AR myself, and my two reasons for not wanting one are still valid; they don't fold, and the KE out of the shortest legal barrel is not what I would call sufficient. If you'd like to debate ballistics, we can do it in a separate thread.
Rexster, on second thought, I'm not even sure the Sage is short enough. It seems to be a collapsible stock, not a telescoper like, say, the HK's. The width is not too bad, I just need something short, were I to get a gun for this particular spot.
Fragout, good post. I do own a full length M1A, an HK91, and Saiga 12 (AK platform shotgun). The Saiga is not yet converted, I have shot a traditional layout AK. I think I like the M1A's ergo the best, it seems to be all the best of the Mauser rifle, Garand, and box fed awesomeness. Not sure I'd dig a pistol grip on it, come to think of it. I don't own any Ruger non-22 rifles.
JMR, sorry man, but there's people that disagree, like Army folks that use them on a daily basis, you may, of course, feel free to disagree.
Averageman, thank you very much for the picture. That is a good size right there, and maybe I just need a *quality* AK.
Ignition, I do own a Norinco SKS, it was given to me, and its trigger is god awful. Maybe I got a bad one.
Others, I was mainly using 200 yards as a "more accurate than a pistol" metric. Obviously, engaging things at 200 yards that aren't shooting back is wrong and illegal. I doubt very much that it is "apocalyptic" to think one could not be beset by a group of people armed with more than pistols. However, shotguns are a valid consideration.
Fragout, thanks for the pic, between you and averageman, I do like the shortness of the folders.
To continue a bit, a doctor who lived in the next block from us in Bellaire, Texas, and who was a long-time friend of my wife's family, was ambushed at his ranch outside the sleepy, safe town of Bellville, Texas not long ago. The bad guys were from Houston's notorious Gulfton Ghetto, about sixty miles fro Bellville; the doc's ranch hand set him up, as one of the bad guys was a cousin. There were enough of them that they were in at least two vehicles; I do not recall the total number.
The kidnappings that have been trendy in Mexico are starting to happen in the USA, including the Houston area, where we live. Thus far, the victims have usually been foreign citizens, but in one recent case, in which I was involved in the on-scene investigation, a Central American illegal alien selected a born-in-the-USA victim.
Did those gang-bangers, who ambushed the doc and his family, intend to kidnap the doc's wife or
child, for ransom?
Yes, when I, someday, have a ranch or rural retreat an hour or so outside this present urban mess, I plan to have a loaded rifle handy when I roll up to the place. I cannot afford to pay a ranch hand who might stab me in the back, but the taxpayers have paid me for 27+ years to do things to
make bad guys resent me. My wife has an M.D., if anyone googles her deeply enough. Yes, indeed,
we are potential targets. My surname is very distinctive; my first name uncommon; I am all too easy to google.
The kidnappings that have been trendy in Mexico are starting to happen in the USA, including the Houston area, where we live. Thus far, the victims have usually been foreign citizens, but in one recent case, in which I was involved in the on-scene investigation, a Central American illegal alien selected a born-in-the-USA victim.
Did those gang-bangers, who ambushed the doc and his family, intend to kidnap the doc's wife or
child, for ransom?
Yes, when I, someday, have a ranch or rural retreat an hour or so outside this present urban mess, I plan to have a loaded rifle handy when I roll up to the place. I cannot afford to pay a ranch hand who might stab me in the back, but the taxpayers have paid me for 27+ years to do things to
make bad guys resent me. My wife has an M.D., if anyone googles her deeply enough. Yes, indeed,
we are potential targets. My surname is very distinctive; my first name uncommon; I am all too easy to google.
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Bigkrackers
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@Kliegl I was referring to your quote "...what he would use in event of civil unrest to go pick up his spouse with..." So that was why a said a bit apocalyptic but I realize this was not you saying it but a friend on another form. And something to use that is more accurate at long distance for protection is valid I just don't know how valid it would be inside the city at a gas pump or outside a fairgrounds or someplace like that.
@Mistwolf - I lived in Phoenix for a long time and traveled to Tucson on down to Y and Ajo quite a bit for my job so I understand what is going on down there. Even so, shooting an illegals at 100 or 200 yards is asking for a grand jury indictment. It might not be right the lack of support our government has for those ranchers but unless they are breaking into your house or ambushing you in the brush - all things that happen frequently on the border - you will pay a heavy price for sniping at them. That's not to say don't carry a long gun. I would.
@Mistwolf - I lived in Phoenix for a long time and traveled to Tucson on down to Y and Ajo quite a bit for my job so I understand what is going on down there. Even so, shooting an illegals at 100 or 200 yards is asking for a grand jury indictment. It might not be right the lack of support our government has for those ranchers but unless they are breaking into your house or ambushing you in the brush - all things that happen frequently on the border - you will pay a heavy price for sniping at them. That's not to say don't carry a long gun. I would.
Gunnerboy
Member
Best truck gun ever is hands down my polish tantal in 5.45x39. The accuracy is superb 24 out of 30 rounds in a 18" circle at 300 yards shooting sitting no bench that and the folding stock is great for compacting the rifle and putting it under the truck seat. and its an AK that speaks for its reliability alone.
HOLY DIVER
Member
1 thing 2 think about,a truck gun is much more likely 2 be stolen.i would not leave a $1200 AR in my truck 24/7. i don't have a truck gun:but if i did it would be a sks or marlin 336.just wouldn't spend over $300 on a truck gun.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Kind of goes against the "Don't spend more than $300" vibe, doesn't it? 
And, those suggesting Tantals and other AK-74 derivatives probably should consider that, if the OP doesn't want a 5.56mm, he probably doesn't want a 5.45mmx39, either, for whatever that's worth.
And, those suggesting Tantals and other AK-74 derivatives probably should consider that, if the OP doesn't want a 5.56mm, he probably doesn't want a 5.45mmx39, either, for whatever that's worth.
Why not a Kelt Tec SU-16?
Totally capable of 200 yard accuracy, 5.56 is so 'slouch' round, no buffer tube to worry about, folds in half for storage.
The only .308 you'll find on the cheap is a converted surplus bolt gun, which isn't going to fold up into a backpack/seat cushion/ flotation device.
Totally capable of 200 yard accuracy, 5.56 is so 'slouch' round, no buffer tube to worry about, folds in half for storage.
The only .308 you'll find on the cheap is a converted surplus bolt gun, which isn't going to fold up into a backpack/seat cushion/ flotation device.
wadcutter45
Member
I carry a M1 carbine with a Choate folding stock in my pickup here in northern New Mexico. It is sighted in at 25 yards.
I think this 200 meter thing is just fantasy. You are going to have a very hard time claiming self-defense at a target 200 meters away. I think it would be hard to justify, in court, a self-defense shooting at even 50 yards, that you didn't bring on yourself.
As for hitting anything reliably at 200 meters with a compact truck gun, well that's another fantasy. Put up an 8" paper plate target and shoot at it, increasing your range by 10-meter increments. The distance at which you can no longer put 4 out of 5 shots on that plate is YOUR maximum range. I guarantee it won't be anywhere near 200 meters. Under 50 meters is more like it.
I think this 200 meter thing is just fantasy. You are going to have a very hard time claiming self-defense at a target 200 meters away. I think it would be hard to justify, in court, a self-defense shooting at even 50 yards, that you didn't bring on yourself.
As for hitting anything reliably at 200 meters with a compact truck gun, well that's another fantasy. Put up an 8" paper plate target and shoot at it, increasing your range by 10-meter increments. The distance at which you can no longer put 4 out of 5 shots on that plate is YOUR maximum range. I guarantee it won't be anywhere near 200 meters. Under 50 meters is more like it.
On another site, a story was related about by a poster when he and his wife had to deal with an unsavory character that had been following them. They were in the desert near the border. When unsavory type began to close in, the poster readied his rifle and held it so it could be clearly seen. The fellow turned and fled. The range was about 200 yards.
No shots were fired, but if needed, the rifle was up to the job.
Having run into some unsavory characters in some very remote places myself, I don't want them to come in close. If pushed, I want the range a rifle provides. I never ever want to have an armed confrontation with anyone. The range of a rifle isn't to shoot somebody at 200 yards. It's to dissuade felons from being a threat within that range so nobody gets hurt.
It also has to be capable of doing the job, not just a bluff
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Bigkrackers
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I know Hi Points don't get a lot of love but there is the Carbine TS in 9mm, .40 and .45acp. They're 16.5 to 17.5 barrel length and are $350 and under. Not too much to lose if it gets stolen or rustst a bit or dinged up and scratched. Could be worth a look.
Bigkrackers
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Mistwolf - not sure about being able to tell if someone is unsavory at the length of two football fields let alone be able to tell if someone is a felon but I understand the safety a rifle provides over a pistol especially if you're out in an isolated environment.
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Old krow
Member
Keltec KSG? They look interesting and they're 26.1" with 14 rounds. Should be seeing them out around year's end.
wadcutter45
Member
I don't believe you can do that with any repeatability...300 yards with a 45 acp carbine? I doubt it. You might have hit one can once. Good for you.
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