Pirates

[CWL]

It is not uncommon for everyone to share a watch while in troubled waters.

12ga marine magnum makes a very good persuader for the locals to leave you alone.

 

[Dorryn]

Piracy is probably more successful now than it has ever been throughout history. The coast guards and navies of the world dont care enough to track down the pirates, and the average sailor cannot legally protect him/herself.

 

[Joe Demko]

What does international law say about cutlasses and belaying pins?

 

[Nomad101bc]

Hmm I think some sort of high powered elephant hunting gun on a tripod would be a good deterant. Then I could sink the pirates vessel before they ever got near...But in all seroiusness some low end revolvers or a 12 gauge would get the job done. Revolvers are fairly reliable no matter who makes them so cheap ones would still be viable.

 

[Funderb]

Pirates are one thing,
but it's the submerged seacrate log, barrel, or semibouyant boat that rips the keel off. that's the biggest danger.
Either way pirates are bad. I know a fisherman that carries a couple ar's a few pistols, a bolt rifle and lots of ammo for the long carribean fishing trips.
I think the phrase "keep a weather eye" applies here.

 

[Tokugawa]

Coast Guard? Navy? They ain't no stinkin' pirate hunters. They are heavily armed cops, show up, clean up the blood.

For hunting pirates, you need a Q-ship. (check the WW1 references) Looks just like a nice little filthy rich American yacht. Pirates get close, up from below decks pops a couple of 7.62 mini guns and a 40mm full auto grenade launcher on a hydraulic lift, backed up with a parachute flare launcher and just for fun a 3" black powder cannon loaded with stovebolts.
Suck 'em in and blow 'em off.

 

[silverlance]

IIRC there was a guy here on THR who deep-sixed a Mini14 and 6000 rounds of ammo (and some other gun too I believe) before going into Mexican port because he was afraid that he might get arrested for his defensive weapons.

If I had the money to sail across the seas, I would definitely have the money to put a sink-away gun on board. Past that point, I probably shouldn't elaborate too much.

 

[Joe Demko]

You know, if boats are as expensive to buy and maintain as I've heard they are, chucking a couple shotguns and a few boxes of ammon into the ocean is pretty small change in comparison to the overall cost of such a hobby.

 

[Zedicus]

This Says it all about Europeans.

 

[Mt Shooter]

my wife who shoots better than most people on this forum

Ill be your huckleberry

 

[boatbod]

There's a definite hierarchy of guns when it comes to cruising.

Handguns - almost universally forbidden, except of course in the USA.
Rifles - not usually allowed; not perceived as a defensive weapon
Shotguns - quite often permitted provided they are declared. Often must be secured or surrendered while in territorial waters.
Flare guns - almost universally allowed. You can get an aluminum adapter to chamber a 12ga round in a 25mm gun, but you'd probably wouldn't want to fire it unless it was a real emergency.

As has been mentioned, the rules are a confusing patchwork heavily dependent on location, local customs and sometimes how "accommodating" you've been to the local officials.

Penalties for violating the rules usually include confiscation of the vessel and jail time, so most people either hide their weapons really well, or simply don't risk carrying in the first place. Travel through known risky waters is usually conducted well offshore in close groups.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

Is it wrong that my first thought on reading the OP was, "Man, wouldn't it be great if I could get a Letter of Marque?" I don't know if I would make a good privateer, but I'd sure like to give it a shot. Sadly, outfitting a ship is probably not something I have the resources or experience to do (much less captaining said ship).

BTW, not to cause undue thread drift, but a certain Presidential Candidate... let's call him R. Paul... or maybe Ron P. (don't want to name names or anything)... has actually suggested reviving the Letter of Marque and Reprisal to use against terrorists. Maybe he'd give me one to hunt pirates.

 

[Zoogster]

You know, if boats are as expensive to buy and maintain as I've heard they are, chucking a couple shotguns and a few boxes of ammon into the ocean is pretty small change in comparison to the overall cost of such a hobby.

Under power of motor, especialy big motors yes. It costs a lot of money to power many motor yachts. However sailboats under power of sail with motors only as an alternate source can be quite inexpensive in comparison.

I have known several families choosing to live on such vessels rather than in a home, and the cost is close to that of an apartment. In fact I have taken trips with such people on such vessels helping to pay for expenses. It costs little more than going camping nowadays. The main limiting factor is the availability of slips. On most of the west coast there is close to a three year waiting period for many slip sizes.

The dock fee combined with the monthly payments are close to what people pay to rent an apartment, nevermind the mortgage on a home. If you can pay a mortgage on a home you could definately live on a boat.
I have seen adults fresh out of college do it.


So it is by no means out of the reach of the average individual, or even the below average individual. In fact with many people purchasing expensive vehicles every few years, if they simply kept the same vehicle for awhile or got something cheaper than a couple expensive SUVs, pickups, or luxury cars to commute with they could afford the initial purchase of many lower end seaworthy vessels. So it really is a priority thing. You can get a used seaworthy vessel for the price of two new cars, and you could finance it about the same.
Many people also have RVs or a motorhome, if they can afford that they could have got a sailboat for about the same (+ the monthly slip fee.)

It is however an unsuitable lifestyle for many, as it requires being extremely neat, organized and space effecient. It would be like living in a motorhome or RV, but with your life even more dependent on it. If you misplace your emergency gear and are going down, well that might be a death sentence.


If someone can dive and is a decent handyman they can also do most of the maintainance themselves. Most such maintainence is prevention based.

So unless throwing away a gun is nothing to you, or even throwing away the value of half a gun is nothing to you, I wouldn't assume it is for anyone else either. Most of the people I have taken trips with couldn't afford to throw away such money.

I also don't see how that really is related to being armed at sea. If the local authorities are about to board you and you toss an illegal firearm overboard they are going to see it and arrest you anyways. In most nations it is guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent. That means by being charged you have already lost half the legal fight.
If you are planning to throw them overboard before entering the waters of a nation, well then you won't be armed once you leave them, or while anchored or docked in a harbor (where a lot of piracy happens, like in the ops story.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'd want an M2 heavy machine gun. A shotgun won't do much against some of these guys.

If you can't pack a heavy machine gun, don't go.

Personally I get more than enough of the sea on my seasonal meat boat trip in Prince William Sound. It's like trying to relax inside a huge commercial washing machine with a bunch of dead fish.

 

[B yond]

I'm tellin' ya, just get one of these things and stash it with some nuts and bolts and random metal parts.

If you feel unsafe throw it in your flare gun and load it with a .38. It's not a firearm until you put it together, so you're fine having it in most places.

A .38 to the face would discourage a pirate. It's not the best weapon but it's more effective than harsh language. Of course you should have a sturdy knife too...

 

[spiroxlii]

My father and brother in law were out in the Yellow Sea between China and Korea doing some diving on the wrecks of Japanese freighters torpedoed during WWII when a boat of unknown origin came to within 50 meters and began to circle the dive boat. Attempts to hail them went unanswered.

The unidentified vessel was a potential danger to the divers below, since it was circling around the area where they might surface, and since there were still divers in the water, my dad couldn't just leave the area. He had the captain make a radio call. Within fifteen minutes, a Korean Maritime Police/Coast Guard vessel responded. The unidentified craft left the area quickly, and since the Korean Coast Guard vessel was in radio contact with the boat my dad was on, they knew nobody was hurt or robbed, so they sped off in pursuit of the unidentified ship.

The Korean Coast Guard ship was well armed and pretty quick. Unfortunately, arming his own team wasn't an option for my dad. Korean gun laws are very very strict. At least their LE and military are serious about their jobs...

 

[mekender]

I once thought it would be a great life to sail around the world, visiting various cultures and just earning enough for expenses.
That was until I found it is next to impossible to travel legaly while having a way to effectively protect yourself on board. You are required to declare firearms many places, and are in violation simply crossing into sovereign waters most places.
Combine that with the fact that the US government will support most charges brought against you and even prosecute you itself or allow you to be extradited back to face many if you escape. It is not like it used to be.

Throughout most of East Asia, and South America, the most affordable diverse destinations, it is illegal in most nations to just sail into thier waters armed (even just going 3 miles offshore from Mexico with a single round of ammunition on board is a crime)
Much of Africa and Europe are also heavily restrictive to a foriegn vessel entering thier waters with arms.

So at sea you are on your own, but you are not allowed to enter most waters of the world with arms. They are often not minor offenses either. Smuggling arms into a nation that has banned or heavily restricted arms, even by just having a couple personal arms can be a very extreme offense, nevermind as a foriegner.
That means most of the world is inaccessible legaly by sea while armed.

it is my understanding that most cruise ships and high dollar yachts have an arms locker... how do they get away with it then?

 

[Zoogster]

it is my understanding that most cruise ships and high dollar yachts have an arms locker... how do they get away with it then?

Often by breaking the law and keeping a low profile.

A cruise ship or other large business dealing with millions of dollars can afford to go through the various processes in thier ports of entry, keep licenses up to date, etc They can also work out other deals in various legal systems.
Just like technicaly you can make a company in the united states that can do all sorts of things the average person cannot. Think of Black Water USA.

In international waters there is few laws, and they are the law until they enter into territorial waters of another nation. So they only have to be in compliance or have deals worked out in the nations that are thier ports.
At sea might is often right. Few authorities are going to board a cruise ship flying the flag of a nation they don't want an international incident with in a hostile manner.
Comparing an average joe on a boat with a cruise line is misleading.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

If you're going to carry on a boat, make sure you bring plenty of emergency hull repair materials.

 

[Nomad101bc]

Actaully the load out of a flare gun is essentailly magnesium shot shell. If it enters ones body the magnesium will continue to burn and thus have somewhat of an incapacitating effect. So several loaded flare guns will get you brownie points with the coast guard and serve as defense. Large knives for "fishing" aren't neccessarily bad to have either.

 

[mike101]

"As if that wasn’t crazy enough my wife's sister, upon return, tells me that she’s glade no one had a gun or tried to defend themselves. She said even if there was a SEAL on board she didn’t want them to try and stop the pirates"

Now, that is crazy. Small wonder that the Euros have traditionally been easy pickings for tyrants, Hitler, Napolean, etc..

 

[Cyclimus]

Spearguns could be useful too... and spearfishing isn't illegal everywhere. I think an MG42 mounted on the bow and stern would be enough though -- shame that you can't leave them mounted in "territorial waters."

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

"BTW, not to cause undue thread drift, but a certain Presidential Candidate... let's call him R. Paul... or maybe Ron P. (don't want to name names or anything)... has actually suggested reviving the Letter of Marque and Reprisal to use against terrorists. Maybe he'd give me one to hunt pirates."

-FourNineFoxtrot

I'd like one of these letters of Marque and Reprisal. I'd go pirate hunting with you. We could become bounty hunters.

 

[spiroxlii]

If you get one of those letters to hunt down terrorists or enemies of the state at sea, I think you're no longer a bounty hunter.

You get to call yourself a privateer then.

 

[CWL]

My father and brother in law were out in the Yellow Sea between China and Korea doing some diving on the wrecks of Japanese freighters torpedoed during WWII when a boat of unknown origin came to within 50 meters and began to circle the dive boat. Attempts to hail them went unanswered.

Quite a few missing ships (I'm talking about container-sized) have been discovered mysteriously re-registered by North Korea and re-crewed or sold with no sign of the original crews.

While piracy is still mostly a crime of opportunity, some are state-sponsored.