Pistol to learn accuracy with

[BCRider]

Can you find another Rent-A-Gun range within decent driving distance so you can try out a few more options? Or what about local ranges? Show up with a few boxes of 9mm and ask some folks if you could try their guns. Leave them a full magazine to say "thanks" after you're done.

And don't pass up at least test holding different guns in the stores. If it feels good then go see if there's someone that has one and would allow you to try it out.

No need to be in a hurry. A long stalk for the right game makes the final outcome all the sweeter....

 

[kedearian]

I'll look into other ranges as well, but that one is right next to where I work so I figure I'll blast a few hundred rounds down range and see if anything stands out as a keeper.

 

[jon_in_wv]

If you want to learn to shoot accurately get a KelTec P11. If you can shoot accurately with it you can shoot accurately with ANYTHING.

 

[Mediocrity]

Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

Shoot when you can, but, rounds downrange don't "Make" you a better shooter. Learning to manipulate your trigger without any movement in your sights along with proper sight alignment and picture is what will "Make" you a better shooter.

Dry fire practice is the key. For every 100 rounds down range, dry fire at least that many at home, making sure that there is absolutely no movement in your sights when the trigger breaks. If you are worried about damage, then use the snap caps that you mentioned you were going to buy.

I say save your money for the .22 conversion, just do lots of perfect dry fire trigger presses. Obviously you need to have a controlled environment with NO AMMO in the room and NO DISTRACTIONS and use something that will absorb an incoming round should you have a negligent discharge (Which you won't if you have no ammo in the room)

Ymmv, but this has made me a much better shooter.

 

[kedearian]

I'm pretty paranoid about gun saftey and accidental discharges ever since I went through boot in the army.. scary scary situations. Anyways I keep all my ammo in a locked ammo box, and if I'm going to dry fire i check, recheck, physically check, then start over once more just incase a round teleported into the chamber some how. Once I goto the range and find out what pistol I'm most comfortable with I'll go from there. The range stated they have several instructors that will teach you proper technique so I'm hopeful they can get a goon like me on paper.

 

[jon_in_wv]

This may sound weird but I read about a Japanese shooter who won at Steel Challenge who had almost no practice in his own country. He developed his skills with an Airsoft pistol. You can practice with an airsoft pistol indoors anytime you want.

 

[kedearian]

It's an option, but as it is I can afford a range trip every other week or so. But since I tend to fixate on one hobby, this one isn't the single worst for my money ever.. I mean I could sell off my guns if for some reason I ever get bored of it (god forbid). Unlike my few previous hobbies that were just money pits.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I wasn't implying anyone should stop going to the range. I reload and I can afford to shoot as much ammo as I can and I normally do shoot a lot. But dry firing or using an airsoft weapon to practice you trigger control and sight alignment is going to help you build a lot more skill than a once a week trip to the range.

Besides, YOUR financial situation doesn't help anyone else on this board unless you intend on buying ammo for them to practice too. Airsoft or dry firing are low cost ways to build your skills and make your range time more productive. I seriously doubt you are building the skills you think you are by shooting once a week instead of routinely practicing weapon handling skills, drawing, holstering, sight alignment, trigger control, etc...on a more regular basis.

 

[Skylerbone]

Get a .22, you will get better soon. Don't worry about finding a match set of pistols with the same grip/weight/barrel length/trigger. Get back into it and have some fun already.

 

[jon_in_wv]

That is another good option. BUT make sure the rounds you put down range count. I was on the range one time and the guy next to me was shooting his 22lr like crazy. when he brought his target back it looked like swiss cheese. It had holes everywhere. I'm sure there were over one hundred holes in the paper and there was no discernible group at all. Use good sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control. If you can, do ALL the things suggested above and you'll be a crack shot in no time.

 

[kedearian]

Went to the range today after work, had a range instructor watch me for the first 10 rounds, they were scattered pretty bad if I'm honest. He gave me a few corrections, 45 seconds of talk or so. I picked up the gun, put the clip in and fired another 10 shots, all within 3-4" group at 20 feet. Another couple tips from the range office, and It was 2 shots in a 2" group center mass of target, and 1 in the "head" of the target. I tried quiet a few guns, starting with the glock 17, S&W M&P, Beretta 92FS, Springfield XD, Colt 1911, and the Glock 19.

The 17 was okay, just felt a little off in my hands, liked the trigger pull a lot. The M&P just felt off when I was shooting it, decent groups but it felt wrong, the sights on the 92fs were a bit ackward for me to get a good sight picture so I ruled that one out. I had no problems with the XD, until I picked up the glock 19. I liked the stiffer trigger pull, and for some weird reason, I was able to group better with it. I was able to semi-rapidly do the "Mozambique drill" and keep decent accuracy. So I think I've found what I'm going to settle on.

So that's about it from me, I might look into a conversion kit for the G19, but I think with a lot of dry practice, getting more comfortable with it, and a few more range trips with instruction (possibly a class) I've found what I was looking for when I started this thread. Thanks to everyone for the input, and sorry for this wall of text.

 

[aliasneo07]

25 yards is sort of a ridiculous range for a pistol IMO. Or at least the MAXIMUM distance the average Joe should be expected to hit at. Was your 45 a 1911? How big was your target? Don't feel bad about not hitting at 25yards after not touching a pistol for 10 years.

 

[searcher451]

Give a try to the Walther P99. The adjustable backstrap makes it immediately adaptable to various hand sizes, and the inherent accuracy of the design -- especially in 9mm -- also will come quickly into play, IMO. I've fired a great many handguns through the years, but none have produced such positive results as readily and immediately as the P99.

 

[rskent]

Against the grain.

kedearian
I hate being the odd man out, but I don’t think shooting a 22 is a great idea. It is trigger time, but that’s it. I have sold off my 22 pistols and I will probably sell off my 22 rifle soon to make room in the safe. There is nothing wrong with 22s, I just feel shooting a center fire gun is better practice and a lot more fun.

So my suggestion is to get the nicest 1911 you can afford. I like full size series 80 Colts. (there’s that odd man out thing again) A cocked and locked series 80 gun is probably the safest gun out there. If you do a little research on the web on how striker fired pistols work, I think you will agree. I’m not saying they are dangerous, but I don’t think they are any safer.

Instead of getting a rim fire conversion, get a reloading setup and load up some lightweight, light recoiling wad cutters. As I recall, When my daughter was about ten, I used to load a 185 grain bullet over 3 grains of bullseye. Very little recoil, lots of fun. It did require a light recoil spring to run, but if it is a range gun who cares.

If you don’t feel like reloading yourself, You might want be able to find a reloading shop in your area to help you out. We have a guy in our club that has a shop. If you call him up and let him know what you need, a lot of times he will bring it out to the range for you.

Good luck in your search for the right pistol. Let us know what you come up with.

Steve

OK I’ve got my flame suit on, you can let err rip

 

[gdesloge]

"He gave me a few corrections", "Another couple tips from the range office[sic]".

Would you mind sharing the advice proffered and how it affected your shooting?

Thank you,

gd

 

[BruM]

since you want a mid range autoloader the 380 or 9mm are decent choices. some bang but an easily controllable caliber and the double stack magazines on some make for a full grip even for a smaller hand.
Another choice with real accuracy for gaining skill is the 38 spl such as the old S&W k38. A 22 version is also available for cheaper shooting with matched weight and feel guns. Though the inherent accuracy of autos vs wheel guns can be debated endlessly IMO the wheel gun with a 6" barrel is a better learning tool because it just seem easier to get consistent results from an off the shelf gun.

 

[kedearian]

aliasneo07 - The .45 was a Colt 1911, and it just felt off to me. It was a standard human torso target, i think it's the Florida CC qualifier.

searcher451 - They did not have a walther P99 at the range, so I was unable to try it out, and I don't want to go about buying a gun with out having test fired it.

rskent - Right now I just need more trigger time to get comfortable with it and back in the groove. Also my girlfriend expressed interest in it after I mentioned a .22lr conversion kit.

gdesloge - Mostly shooting stance, proper hand placement, and leaning into the gun. This helped a little, but what got me into a tight group for the first bit was some advice that seemed wrong. He had me not look at the sights, and just point at where I wanted the round to go. That got me to where I was placing shots decently close to what I wanted. After that I started to go for a double tap chest, no aim, then an aimed shot at the head and it was kinda one of those EURKIA moments. Also I kept dropping the front sight of the gun before I shot to see where I was aiming, which made my shots low for a while.

Bru88 - My dad had several 357/38spl revolvers but they were lost years ago in a hurricane. I don't really like factory loads, and since I dont have the equipment to make my "sissy" loads, I decided to pass on that.

Sorry for the wall o' text. Thanks for everyone's input again.

 

[sig220mw]

MY first handgun was a Ruger single six. Yes it was only a 22 but it was easier to learn the basics without the flinching that you will have with a center fire. I know you said center fire, but if your having as much of a problem as you described you need to drop down to a rimfire. You can always sell it later or trade for a center fire.

 

[Monster Zero]

Ruger Mark III

Ruger Mark III and a few bricks of good .22 ammo.

 

[Splash]

suggestion

It's also helpful sometimes to have someone load one or two snap caps in your magazine when your at the range. When you get to the snapcap, and pull the trigger, you'll notice yourself if you are flinching. A lot of people anticipate the recoil and jerk the pistol downward to try and compensate for the muzzle rise/recoil. A snapcap will allow you to witness this immediately if you are doing this. just my 2 cents.

 

[Purgatory]

I think you made a great decision. I was about to recommend a heavy frame 9mm like a 1911 for the added weight to diminish recoil, but as I thought about it, my Glock 19 has considerably less muzzle rise than my Hi Power which never made sense to me being that it's all steel as opposed to the lighter polymer frame of the Glock.

I think a Glock 19 is a great gun to learn to hone all your technical hand skills for accuracy; trigger control, follow thru, etc. including the coin on top of the slide drill for dry-firing practice.

The lighter gun will accentuate your mistakes in your trigger pull, etc.

Anyway I think it's a good choice.

P.S. Didn't mean to completely ignore the .22 suggestion. I learned pistol skills shooting a .22 Buckmark growing up. Definitely a great suggestion money and practice-wise.

 

[TimboKhan]

The range stated they have several instructors that will teach you proper technique so I'm hopeful they can get a goon like me on paper

Buy what you want, but at the end of the day it is a whole lot cheaper to start correcting mistakes and improve marksmanship when you can actually afford to shoot. As much as I love shooting 9mm, I can buy 500 rounds of .22 for around 20 bucks and there simply is not a way, to include reloading, that you can shoot that much 9mm that cheaply.

Here is my opinion: Marksmanship is marksmanship. If you can shoot a .22 well, you can easily adapt to a harsher recoiling gun. On the other hand, bad habits picked up with a larger caliber gun are going to burn themselves into you, and your not going to be able to correct them. Instruction helps and in fact can be a vital addition to your shooting experience, but nothing makes a shooter better than, you know, shooting.

In strictly my own opinion, if you can run a .22 you can run anything else. It might require a slight bit of adjustment, but it is within the realm of possibility. Oh, I read all this bunk about grip angles and bad triggers and all this other stuff, and I even bought into it for awhile. Then I realized that I was switching between guns (mine and others) and was achieving predictable results (and, as time wore on, pleasing results) regardless of the grip angle, trigger, brand or whatever. Sure, maybe gun A shot better for me than gun B, but at the end of the day what I realized was that shooting is like anything else: Focus on the fundamentals and everything else boils down to minor adjustments.

Honestly dude, if your grip is good, if your trigger stroke is good and if you're paying attention to your front sights, then you are going to be successful regardless of what gun you happen to be shooting. It's a lot easier to develop these habits with a .22 than it is with anything else. Can you buy a 9mm or something else and learn to be successful with it? Absolutely, and if you want to do that more power to you. I and others are just telling you that it is easier to build your skills with a .22 than it is with anything else.

 

[harmon rabb]

Nothing beats trigger time. If you get a .22 that feels like a real gun in the hand, you can afford to go to the range 5-7x a week rather than once. Heck, if you're really serious about learning to shoot well, get a .22 revolver and shoot it in DA only. If you can shoot a DA revolver well, you can shoot any handgun well.

If you are dead set on not getting a .22, maybe a Tokarev as a range toy isn't a bad option. Milsurp ammo is like $120 for 1000 rounds (you can get some at www.aimsurplus.com and www.jgsales.com).

Btw, lose your stigma about 1911's. They not only have the thumb safety, but also have the grip safety. It's far, far easier to have a ND with a Glock than a 1911.

 

[LiveLife]

kedearian, this is what I recommend to new shooters to reduce their shot groups or minimize flyers for semi-auto pistols:

- I have them hold their shooting hand as though they were shooting a pistol and move the shooting finger (index finger)
- I have them practice until the shooting finger moves independent of the hand (other fingers don't move with the shooting finger).
- I then have them clear their pistol and assume their "usual" shooting posture
- If they use the first finger joint on the trigger, I have them use the pad of the shooting finger to "press" the trigger and not pull the trigger
- While watching the front sight, I have them "press" the trigger (dry fire) until the hammer/striker falls
- If the front sight moves as the hammer/striker falls, I have them practice until the front sight does not move
- At the range, I have them start at 5 yards (15 feet) and repeat the dry fire exercise while watching the front sight
- When they confirm that front sight does not move as they "press" the trigger, I have them fire 3-5 round shot group while watching the front sight
- When they consistently maintain tight shot groups at 5 yards, then I have them move the target to 7 yards and then to 10 yards.

FYI, for match shooting pistol selection, my mentor had me select the pistols with triggers that did not move the front sight or we worked on the trigger job until the falling of the hammer/striker did not move the front sight.

Here's a Jeff Cooper video on trigger release - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKgAkwB8WRo&feature=related

I hope this helps

 

[alpha6164]

There are a few problems i see from your original post:

1) Not shooting for 10yrs
2) Shooting a 45 after such a long rest
3) Shooting at 25yards


I like to shoot steel at 50yards and is fun but i shoot 10k rounds a year. You need to start shooting much closer, and i mean a lot closer. Start with self defense ranges 3-7yards max. You might think that is too short of a distance but it is not. Any modern gun is "accurate enough" which is 2-3" groups at 25yards if you do your job. Now once we start talking about making smaller groups then the gun itself becomes important. In all of my times shooting, i have never shot a gun that shoots more accurately than a H&K P7 series of pistols.

The main advantage they have is the fixed barrel to the frame. Take any semi-auto handgun and lock the slide back. Grab the barrel and shake it and see how much wiggle it has. Well that small wiggle can translate to wider groups as distance grow. With the P7 the barrel is fixed. Also it has one of the lowest bore axis on any hand guns and points like your own index finger.

I have handed guys my P7 that cant shoot worth a crap and suddenly things improve. It also doent hurt that it has a sweet consistent trigger from shot to shot. I do agree with most of the replies, that you might want to start with a .22 to practice TRIGGER CONTROL. This is the single most important thing in a hand gun. You can have the best stance, best sight picture, best grip but if your trigger pull sucks, you will throw shots like there is no tomorrow.