Pizza shop owner's....should carry?

[packnrat]

heck if i owned a store of any type there would be lot of cameras around taking video and sending it to a deffernt location for storage...got to help the cops catch the guy who just killed one of my workers.

and all who entered the store would see the sign stating "smile you are on video"

now as for guns, a ccw means not seen.

.

 

[Zip7]

If he was speaking softly the how did they know he was armed?

My Dad always carried with a IWB holster - but he wore overalls all the time, so basically he had some kind of pistol clipped to the bib of his overalls. When he didn't wear overalls, like when he went on sales calls or whatever he carried a larger revolver in the truck with him, and when he got back to the shop he carried it in and out by hand.

I didn't grow up in a very gun-sensitive part of the country or in a gun-sensitive era. Every pickup had gunracks in the back window and 90% of them had guns on them. At high school, church... everywhere. Never heard of an incident of carjacking till I went to NYC when I was in my 20's

 

[TAB]

A little FYI, In most robberys, drawing a weapon is actually a very foolish thing to do.

no matter how fast you can draw, your still slower then a trigger finger.

 

[kingpin008]

So kingpinO08, your coworkers brought knives to a gunfight? Brilliant.

No, not brilliant, but when some cracked-out a**hole is trying to bust in on you where you work and make off with your hard-earned money, you go after him with whatever you've got.

 

[doc2rn]

I would bet the 2 young men who came in where: 1) looking to see if you where alone 2) see if you where gonna do the receipts before locking up or 3) casing the place.

CCW is hereby required for all Pizza establishments.

 

[FCFC]

For people who own a small business, especially a food-related one, it's too important to go unprepared for a robbery.

I don't see any special distinction to be made for food-related businesses.

But it is correct that any small business, open to the walk-in traffic, which has cash transactions, and/or desirable merchandise, and is open late at night is a target for robbery. As such, any such small business should have a security program. Having a firearm with someone trained and/or ready to use it on premises is certainly a viable and prudent option in a security program.

 

[bleachcola]

No, not brilliant, but when some cracked-out a**hole is trying to bust in on you where you work and make off with your hard-earned money, you go after him with whatever you've got.

The contents of a pizza shop cash register are worth taking a knife to a gunfight?

 

[freakshow10mm]

Robberies aren't about money, they are about force. Rapes aren't about sex, they are about force.

 

[esmith]

No, not brilliant, but when some cracked-out a**hole is trying to bust in on you where you work and make off with your hard-earned money, you go after him with whatever you've got.

I don't know. Being shot probably isn't worth however much money is given up. Insurance often covers robberies as well and will refund either all or partly what was taken.

 

[Cosmoline]

I don't see any special distinction to be made for food-related businesses.

It's that tempting combination of cash and late hours. A pizza place does a lot of cash transactions typically, so I would expect it to be a prime target. Other small shops may do fewer cash transactions, or may close at five or six.

A little FYI, In most robberys, drawing a weapon is actually a very foolish thing to do.

That's far too broad a statement. Two friends of mine locally "beat the trigger finger" and killed would-be robbers, not to mention the many many others who have survived robberies by killing the criminal. It depends on the circumstances. And if you DO NOT have a firearm you will have a much more difficult time resisting.

Insurance often covers robberies as well and will refund either all or partly what was taken.

Insurance does not replace a life. The graveyards are full of people who obeyed the directive to cooperate with the attackers. I agree that the CASH is not really the issue. Use the cash tactically to save your life rather than risking your life to save the cash. Remember, when a man comes in, armed, and makes illegal demands that you hand over cash, the only safe assumption is that he will kill you. So by all means hand over the cash then blow his face through the back of his head. An armed robber does not usually cease to be an imminent deadly threat until he throws down his weapon or leaves the area. Don't assume this is some binding business transaction where he can't kill you once you give him $$. That's grossly foolish.

 

[Steven Proshop]

everyone should carry, regardless of where they work. bad things happen anywhere.

 

[kingpin008]

The contents of a pizza shop cash register are worth taking a knife to a gunfight?

I don't know. Being shot probably isn't worth however much money is given up. Insurance often covers robberies as well and will refund either all or partly what was taken.

Why are the two of you making such an issue out of this? I never said I agreed with it or thought it was a good idea, just an understandable reaction to someone attempting to rob them. Hell, at least they fought back, instead of laying down and giving in to the jackass. Isn't that the point? To show the criminals that good people won't (and shouldn't) just lay down and let them commit their crimes free from resistance?

And it's not about insurance, or what it's "worth". The fact is this - even if insurance will cover the loss, the goon who got away will tell all his goon buddies, and that store will be marked from then on as an easy score. By fighting back, my boss and my co-workers gave the fool a very succinct message - "we're willing to fight you". That's a good message to give to criminals, and in my opinion, should be given to them as often as possible, in whatever way possible. If it means running after them with chef's knives, so be it. Not the way I'd want to get the job done, but it beats sitting on my ass letting the guy take my cash and possibly harm me.

So yeah, go ahead and call them dumb, or point out how foolish it is. Maybe the time will come when you're caught in a situation and all you've got is a knife (or a stick, or a rock, or whatever) and you go after the guy with the gun, because it's the best you've got. Then we'll all come here and cast judgement on how good of an idea it was.

 

[bleachcola]

There will never come a time when I'm armed with only a knife and go chase down someone with a firearm in order to get a couple twenty spots back. There's an obvious balance between pride and stupidity. If somebody wants to unnecessarily endanger their lives over something that trivial then that is their business. But to go around preaching the importance of Rambo-style vigilante justice is just as stupid as your chef buddies. If you want to protect yourself from firearms then you need to have one yourself and be properly trained to use it. Putting yourself into that situation without those tools is extremely foolish. Not only are you endangering yourself but also those around you and those you leave behind (wife and kids at home with no dad bc he got shot over a couple bills).

 

[kingpin008]

Who's preaching?

It seems to me that you feel like you've got a bone to pick with me for some reason - which is pretty ridiculous, seeing as how I'm merely relating the story of what happened, and nothing more. Whether I agree with it or not never came into the picture until after you started in on me.

And honestly - I'm glad that there will never be a time when all you have at your disposal is a weapon of convenience such as a knife or a chair, but the fact is, not everyone has the same choice. And that's really what amazes me about the comments my comment has gotten - rather than an "atta boy!" for fighting back (even if less-than-ideal weapons were used) there's a few of you all but condemning their actions.

Well, that's just sad. As I said before, at least they fought back. There's not a scrap of "Rambo" in that, despite what you want to read into it. That's a small business owner defending his livelihood and the livelihoods of his workers with whatever means he has at hand. If you've got a problem with that, that's your right and I respect that - but don't try to spin it into something it's not.

Other than that, I don't have much else to say. Reply as you wish, I'll still be reading and replying to this thread, just not in response to this situation. If you'd like to continue the discussion of my original comments with me, I'd be more than happy to talk to you over PM. Take care.

 

[FCFC]

I don't see any special distinction to be made for food-related businesses.

But it is correct that any small business, open to the walk-in traffic, which has cash transactions, and/or desirable merchandise, and is open late at night is a target for robbery. As such, any such small business should have a security program. Having a firearm with someone trained and/or ready to use it on premises is certainly a viable and prudent option in a security program.

It's that tempting combination of cash and late hours. A pizza place does a lot of cash transactions typically, so I would expect it to be a prime target. Other small shops may do fewer cash transactions, or may close at five or six.

I can't help but agree with your comment about the cash and later hours factors.

 

[bleachcola]

No need to take it to PM's. This is something I think everyone should hear. No matter how brave or honorable you think it may be, engaging in the behavior is irresponsible and downright dangerous. What if the guy got spooked by having three guys running at him with knives and decided to open fire? He's a crackhead not a crack shot. Some, if not all, of those bullets are going to fly past the heroes. They knowingly put themselves into that situation so that's their fault if they get hit but what if there were people nearby who got hit? What about the mom that came by looking to get a pizza for her daughter's late night slumber party? She's supposed to take one in the head over a few bills out of a cash register? It's just plain stupid. A person should never enter a gunfight unless they have the ability to put down the aggressor quickly. We don't live in a vacuum where there are only two variables -- the bad guy and the guy(s) fighting the bad guy. There are outside factors involved. Someone's pride or big head can endanger others, not just themselves.

 

[bleachcola]

The bottom line is that your buddies reignited an already diffused situation and in doing so put their lives and the lives of everyone around them in danger. It was a poor decision. If anyone here finds themselves in a similar situation they should instead call 911 and inform the operator that an armed man tried to break into the business and has left. The cops would show up quickly and apprehend the guy. Using knives and clubs and stuff like that is fine with me when you are put in an inescapable situation where you have to defend yourself against a firearm. But these guys were not in that situation. The crackhead had already left and didn't even have any of their belongings.

 

[TxPhantom]

Your boss is clueless....

With all the armed robberies happening every day, all over the world, your boss hasn't figured out that you might need a fighting chance against a robber, you need to get a new job with a smarter boss.

 

[esmith]

Why are the two of you making such an issue out of this? I never said I agreed with it or thought it was a good idea, just an understandable reaction to someone attempting to rob them. Hell, at least they fought back, instead of laying down and giving in to the jackass. Isn't that the point? To show the criminals that good people won't (and shouldn't) just lay down and let them commit their crimes free from resistance?

Kingpin and beachcola, relax, we're just talking about this, theres no point to get fired up about anything here.

Kingpin, what you say is right, that good people shouldn't have to give in to bad people. But let's face it, chasing after an armed burglar with knives isn't the best defensive action. I would probably have concealed a knife and given him the money i had. If something were to escalate the situation further then i might pull a knife out. A lot of burglar's don't want to harm you, they just want what you have. Granted, there are those who do wish you harm, and this is why people should carry to protect themselves.

If anyone here finds themselves in a similar situation they should instead call 911 and inform the operator that an armed man tried to break into the business and has left. The cops would show up quickly and apprehend the guy.

Theres a member here who has something in his sig line to the tune of, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." And that right, policemen are definitley not something to trust your life with.

 

[bleachcola]

Theres a member here who has something in his sig line to the tune of, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." And that right, policemen are definitley not something to trust your life with.

Did you read what I wrote in that quote? Seconds didn't count. Nothing counted. The guy tried to come inside and couldn't so he left. In that scenario you call 911, you don't go play hero. Now if the guy had broken in, then you act. Cops are indeed too far away to count on.

 

[bleachcola]

Maybe I'm not being clear with my words here. What I'm trying to say is that if you aren't in any danger, then don't go creating a situation where you are in danger. If you drive by a bank and see armed robbers going in, then call 911. Don't go charging in with your handgun. But if you are already inside the bank and the robbers make it clear that they may shoot you, then act. There is a huge difference that I don't think some people around here understand. Use force when necessary. Call 911 when it's not.

 

[esmith]

Maybe I'm not being clear with my words here. What I'm trying to say is that if you aren't in any danger, then don't go creating a situation where you are in danger. If you drive by a bank and see armed robbers going in, then call 911. Don't go charging in with your handgun. But if you are already inside the bank and the robbers make it clear that they may shoot you, then act. There is a huge difference that I don't think some people around here understand. Use force when necessary. Call 911 when it's not.

We know what your points are. We are just stating what is proper to do if that situation had escalated. Say he turned around and knocked the door in, came in a held up the store. Even calling 911 would be useless.

I want this quibbling to end now, it's driven this thread off topic and is deterring other members to add information i had earlier wished to recieve.

 

[bleachcola]

I'm going to provide my counterpoints as long as people continue to make ridiculous points of their own.

 

[esmith]

I'm going to provide my counterpoints as long as people continue to make ridiculous points of their own.

So you will continue to drive threads off topic until they are locked? That's class for you.

 

[chaim]

Kingpin, what pizza place was that? Over the years I worked at most of Columbia's non-corporate (and one corporate) pizza place.

Most of the years I did pizza delivery were in the early 90s. There were some sketchy moments, but the worst moments were from dogs not on a leash or not controlled by their owners. A bit under 10 years ago I did it again for a short time and was surprised at how fast things went downhill. I did it for only about 2 or 3 months and had as many close calls as in the years I delivered before. I have decided that if financial need ever sees me delivering pizza again, I just may have to ignore MD law and carry something more substantial than a knife and pepper spray.

So, in answer to the OP, yes I think it is wise for the owners, managers, and especially pizza drivers at pizza places to be armed. Cashiers and pizza makers too if they are old enough.