please do not start a flame war...help me understand the popularity of Glocks...

[wildehond]

I would also like to know why you feel these are reguirements for a good handgun?

Why is that?

Would you put a small Glock (or with a similar design) in your pocket (no hard holster) with one in the pipe???

That is very bad practice.

My G22 is a CCW and competition handgun. So it is either in a holster or in my hand. In the holster I can get to it quickly. Instinct. There is just NO telling what state that weapon will present itself coming out of a pocket.

You still have not answered why SA/DA is essential for a handgun. Espcially in intended as a service weapon or to be sued in self defence.

 

[WargameHub]

My favorite Glock line is they "have the best ergonomics". For me they dont and are uncomfortable where Sig, Beretta, and Walther fit my hand better and I end up explaining what ergonomics is.

Other than that they seem to be good easy to use guns, but I prefer DA/SA or SAO (I'm not big on striker fired)



Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk

 

[JustinJ]

Who says we're only talking about carry/duty guns? Most gun purchases for individuals aren't for carry or duty-specific purposes. They're just general purpose guns. I own plenty of guns that I would never want to try to CC - and yet I still bought them for various reasons.

Sure, looks are largely irrelevant if you're talking about selecting a duty gun. However, most individuals aren't shopping for a police department. Rather, they're buying firearms that they like and one reason people like certain firearms is because they are aesthetically pleasing. It's sort of how a lot of people purchase 1911's because of the history/romanticism that comes along with that design. People make firearms purchases for a lot of non-performance related reasons and that includes aesthetics.

What is your definition of general use? I have a few guns that would never be used for home or self defense but they are not in the same category of gun types as Glocks. If there is absolutely no chance one is going to rely on the gun for home defense, personal defense, concealed carry, duty any other real world application or use it in competition, then sure, aesthetics could be a valid consideration.

 

[saturno_v]

That is very bad practice.

Yes with a Glock it is very bad.....with my KT P-11 or a Bersa Thunder 380 it is not and people do it all the time....ever heard of pocket holsters??

You still have not answered why SA/DA is essential for a handgun.

Not essential but very nice to have.....maximum safety (yes I know safety begins with the shooter but crap happens...humans can make mistakes), maximum flexibility in carry modalities (due to the safety issue, you do not have to worry about snags), second strike capability....

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Those fancy, collector 1911s are often extremely expensive and not bought for practical use. That is a different class of gun, imo. Glocks, and other guns for real world use, are made to be practical, not pretty.

Silly Marine Expedition Unit, using those fancy Kimber 1911s which are not meant for serious work! Man those Marines must not know what is good for fighting! Silly, silly Marines.

Not essential but very nice to have.....maximum safety (yes I know safety begins with the shooter but crap happens...humans can make mistakes), maximum flexibility in carry modalities (due to the safety issue, you do not have to worry about snags), second strike capability....

I prefer Single Action over DA/SA. I prefer a nice short trigger pull and just practice finger off the trigger. Second Strike is over rated, if the round didn't fire the first time, it's being thrown away ASAP to be replaced with another round.

 

[Bozwell]

What is your definition of general use? I have a few guns that would never be used for home or self defense but they are not in the same category of gun types as Glocks. If there is absolutely no chance one is going to rely on the gun for home defense, personal defense, concealed carry, duty any other real world application or use it in competition, then sure, aesthetics could be a valid consideration.

I think how you purchase guns may be different from how the general public makes purchases. The "cool" factor plays a big role in what firearms people buy and looks are a big part of that. I'm not saying your way of choosing firearms is wrong. Quite to the contrary, it seems quite rational. With that said, I don't think that's how the majority of people make firearm purchases. Right or wrong, "valid" or not, looks play a factor in how most people make decisions.

 

[Drail]

All Glock had to do was capture the majority of the LEO market (with cheap prices, they practically gave them away) and the masses will buy them just because the LEOs do. People are like lemmings. People will totally believe that if the POLICE buys it, it must be the best thing around. WRONG. Creative marketing can sell anything to uninformed uneducated non thinking consumers desperate to have the newest baddest coolest thing to just hit the market. Anything. Ginsu knives. Pocket fisherman. Shamwow. Chia pets. Anything. People buy a car based solely on how it "looks". They don't know anything about brakes, suspensions, engines, etc. Just how it "looks". This is how we buy everything now. The last car I bought the salesman totally freaked out when I slid underneath it to look at the undercarriage. He asked my wife, "what is he doing down there?" "He's looking at the car dude." America's greatest product is marketing.

 

[Sam1911]

Creative marketing can sell anything to uninformed uneducated non thinking consumers desperate to have the newest baddest coolest thing to just hit the market. Anything. Ginsu knives. Pocket fisherman. Shamwow. Kiapets. Anything.

Perhaps. You're certainly right to a degree. But Glock had to have something pretty much on-the-ball with their design that made it not only cheap to buy (look, it WAS NOT free, or even nearly so) to make not only the cops (who, lets face it, are stuck-in-the-mud resistant to change, conservative types nearly as much so as the military) love it, but also the competitive shooters and private defensive shooters as well.

Sure the police adoption was key. But that used to be kind of laughed at among the "knowledgeable" shooters ... "good enough for a COP, but you won't catch ME with one!" ... until some folks started kicking major rear-end with them in the gun games and a few real serious types came to admit that there was something rock-solid about the platform. Minds started to change.

To say it was just the latest, greatest, high-speed, low-drag thing and so it sold like mad misses some facts, I think. If that was the case, the FN 5.7 should have been a ROARING success.

 

[FMF Doc]

Form follows function

When most look at a highly polished 1911, they see a work of beauty. When I look at a Glock, I see the same thing. The reason...function. A gun, for me, is a tool to either put food on the table, or stop a predetor (2 or 4 legged variety) To that end, the most beautiful thing about any firearm is that it works. There are always exceptions, but as a general rule....GLOCKS WORK! They have been building a long reputaion and are reveared for a reason. If you carry a pistol everyday as a way of life and it stands a good chance at being the difference between you going home or not, you don't care what it looks like. You just want it to work. That is the allure of Glocks. Are they masterful pieces of art...no! Are they masterful pieces of engineering...absolutely. Now, I am not saying that they are head and shoulders above everything else out there (happen to be a BIG fan of SIG and BERETTA myself) but they have been getting the good guys home and the bad guys dead with unwaivering reliability for a quite sometime now. THAT is the allure of the GLOCK.
Like tommy Lee Jones said in US Marshals: "Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol."

 

[GEM]

Goes bang. I shoot it well enough for me. I don't need external safeties or grip safeties on a life or death gun. My 642 doesn't have them. Just a heavier trigger pull is the difference in quick utilization. Draw it and go bang.

Read a story of a guy who got shot in the hands and couldn't manipulate the grip safety well and that slowed him down.

I shoot a 1911 at times for fun. But the Glock is an EDC.

 

[abq87120]

I was at a paper shoot today. About 100 rounds, similar to a USPSA. About four of the guns were Glocks. I seem to remember that just about all the non-Glock guns in our section had at least one FTF or FTE in four stages. About ten shooters in my section. But also take into account that a lot of these guys reload. None of the Glocks had any issues, reloads or factory ammo. None.

Try these tricks with some of your pretty-boy guns:

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/122576-glock-ultimate-torture-test.html

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/firearm-cleaning-maintenance/113622-glock-26-seawater-test.html

http://www.kiesler.com/videodetail.aspx?id=1068

http://gunvideos.org/view/11/glock-trigger-torture-test/

 

[Dave P.]

I have a 36 as my main carry gun. I've owned it for several years now
and fire about 1500 rounds a year in it. It's always worked...always.
It's a great tool, gets banged around a fair amount, sweat soaked,
minimal cleaning etc. Price is fairly low and if it some how gets destroyed,
lost , eaten....Glock has plenty more just like it.
It's a long ways from my favorite gun which is the exact reason
I carry it the most.
Dave

 

[shiftyer1]

Their looks don't appeal to me, but if one fell in my lap I wouldn't hesitate to use and abuse it.

 

[wildehond]

That is very bad practice.

Yes with a Glock it is very bad.....with my KT P-11 or a Bersa Thunder 380 it is not and people do it all the time....ever heard of pocket holsters??

But then it is in a holster. You could carry a glock in a pocket holster if you want. No problem. Bit heavy though.

 

[saturno_v]

But then it is in a holster. You could carry a glock in a pocket holster if you want. No problem. Bit heavy though.

A Glock or a pistol with a similar firing mechanism is a bad idea to carry with one in the pipe in a pocket even with a soft holster.....accidental discharges did happened that way....snags can happen just with the clothing and the holster fabric....I did even ask to a Glock fanatic at my range if he would do it...he wouldn't....

 

[wildehond]

But then it is in a holster. You could carry a glock in a pocket holster if you want. No problem. Bit heavy though.

A Glock or a pistol with a similar firing mechanism is a bad idea to carry with one in the pipe in a pocket even with a soft holster.....accidental discharges did happened that way....snags can happen just with the clothing and the holster fabric....I did even ask to a Glock fanatic at my range if he would do it...he wouldn't....

First off the Glock design is not a pocket pistol, never intended to be. It is bit like not liking a fork because it is not a knife. But that is beside the point

However I can not work out how the trigger can snag if the pocket holster covers the trigger. I will never use a pocket holster that does not cover the trigger.

If you want the pocket gun, then buy a handgun made for that puprose.
Use a tool for the intended purpose.

The Glock design is brilliant in it's intended purpose. If you do not like it then it is simple. Do not use it.

I carried a 1911 cocked and locked for many years and a CZ75 before that also cocked and locked. But for the purpose I need a handgun for now. The Glock is perfect. By that I do not mean the Glock design is perfect for everything. Just for what I want at the moment.

That is the attraction of a Glock Handgun for me at the moment.

I like big Bowie style knives. But I carry a lockblade folder at the moment. It is fits the purpose now.

 

[saturno_v]

First off the Glock design is not a pocket pistol, never intended to be. It is bit like not liking a fork because it is not a knife. But that is beside the point

However I can not work out how the trigger can snag if the pocket holster covers the trigger. I will never use a pocket holster that does not cover the trigger.

If you want the pocket gun, then buy a handgun made for that puprose.
Use a tool for the intended purpose.

I'm not criticizing who likes Glocks.....infact the point of my thread was to try the understand the allure of it...

However, on that particular point, you are basically admitting a design limitation...that firing mechanism is not recommended in very small pistols with soft pocket holsters....a DA/SA design can go from full size to pocketable one without particular limitation.....

Some "Glockers" won't even carry a regular one with a soft holster at.....to me that sounds like a limitation.....

That for me is the beauty of a DA/SA platform...it imposes no limitation at all....maximum versatility and a particular stress on security....

 

[wildehond]

Huh???

 

[saturno_v]

Huh???

The platform imposes compromises..this is what I mean...I can carry a DA/SA pistol (according to its size) in every possible way without even remotely risking an accidental discharge...maximum safety......pocket, hip, shoulder, non holstered (Mexican Style)
Would you carry a Glock Mexican style?? I wouldn't....

I know that second stricke capability is not that important..still the SA/DA has that capability if I want to where a Glock doesn't....

 

[wildehond]

You asked us why we prefer to use a glock. We told you. Now you tell we are all wrong for using the Glock because your DA/SA system is better. I suppose we are all ignorant to your superior wisdom. Or not as badass or hardcore as you.

So if you knew beforehand we are all wrong why did you ask? We use our Glocks handguns and you use what you you use and we are all happy. But for my purpose the Glock works the best at the moment. That point I will not concede.

I personally will not carry ANY handgun Mexican style.

 

[saturno_v]

You asked us why we prefer to use a glock. We told you. Now you tell we are all wrong for using the Glock because your DA/SA system is better. I suppose we are all ignorant to your superior wisdom. Or not as badass or hardcore as you.

So if you knew beforehand we are all wrong why did you ask? We use our Glocks handguns and you use what you you use and we are all happy. But for my purpose the Glock works the best at the moment. That point I will not concede.

I personally will not carry ANY handgun Mexican style.

No you are taking it the wrong way.....I personally prefer a DA/SA...but I was curious why some prefer Glocks...and I'm learning why as the thread progresses....we had simply a little temporary debate on a particular aspect where I personally think a SA/DA is better....for me.....each one of us has different opinions and needs......keep the info flow going!!

I would never carry Mexican style myself......however even some LEO do...and not necessarily because they "are badass" but to "blend in" in very special situations....I recently did watch an interesting show about undercover cops in drug gangs infested areas south of the border....

 

[Wapato]

Although while Glocks simplicity and lack of features that make a gun not fire are parts of its appeal for many.

One would think those other features were added for a reason. It's fine to say that the shooter is the safety, util you drop the thing.

Now a Glock actually should have decent protection against a dropfire I'd think. And some snag. But again, I'd think those other features probably came into existance after some accident where someone tripped or something. Or to protect against you having a bad day and not following one of the safety rules.

I seem to recal reading the injury rate from firearm accidents is in the thousands per year. I wonder if Glocks have a higher rate?

They might not have a noticably increase rate if the accidents are almost all due to things unrelated to anything a safety could help with (hunters not paying attention to what's beyond that deer, leaving a gun out for little timmy, loading yourself with six beers before loading your gun, etc).

 

[mgmorden]

I was at a paper shoot today. About 100 rounds, similar to a USPSA. About four of the guns were Glocks. I seem to remember that just about all the non-Glock guns in our section had at least one FTF or FTE in four stages. About ten shooters in my section. But also take into account that a lot of these guys reload. None of the Glocks had any issues, reloads or factory ammo. None.

I compete in USPSA matches nearly every weekend (3-4 of them per month). Most matches run 30-60 competitors. I've seen problems out of EVERYTHING - including Glocks. I will admit that though there are many that run fine, I do most commonly see issues out of 1911 pattern guns which seem to be a bit more temperamental (particularly on tight target guns), but nothing is immune.

Part of that is that people at such events tend to tweak/tinker with the guns a little more than the average shooter, but I certainly wouldn't come to the conclusion that Glock shares some special status not enjoyed by other manufacturers based on what I've seen.

Or looked at a different way: out of my 10 autloaders - only 1 of which is a Glock - the only one I've had any issues with was my S&W M&P - and I eventually tracked that down to an aftermarket spring. With the factory spring back in, that gun too is now 100%.

 

[coolluke01]

Or to protect against you having a bad day and not following one of the safety rules.

I would be careful about using this statement. It gives the impression that the safety is there so you don't have to be as careful. I'm sure that's not what you mean but that's a common perception.
I see a safety like a two stage trigger. Flip the safety then fire. For some this may bring a sense of security. Any safety that you disengage when you grip the firearm is IMO is not necessary and adds little to no added security. This would include the 1911 platform if you hold it in a way that disengages the safety when you hold it. Thumbs over the top of the safety.
As to the safety/security of a Glock. You can pound a nail in with a loaded Glock! I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS!! It would be foolish to test any safety like that.

 

[JTQ]

coolluke01 wrote,
This would include the 1911 platform if you hold it in a way that disengages the safety when you hold it. Thumbs over the top of the safety.

coolluke01, we went over this on another thread. The proper 1911 grip "allows" you to disengage the safety when you grasp the pistol, it doesn't cause you to disengage safety when you grasp it.