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Glock people - Help me understand

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Azrael256, Jan 23, 2006.

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  1. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    As a preface, I'm a 1911 guy. I like it, I shoot well with it, so it's my choice. Personal preference, you might say.

    So, the other day, I was visiting a friend's house, and in the course of cleaning several guns, he asked me to clean his duty weapon. It's a Glock... 17, I think. 9mm with a pair of 15-ish round magazines. He got me the book, I read the instructions and stripped it down, and went to scrubbing.

    I got it spotless with no problem, but in examining the pistol, I started to wonder about a few things. There is really very little metal to the pistol. Of course, the slide and company is steel (I assume, I didn't look that closely), but the internals struck me as very light for the job they're doing. All these little stamped (I think) parts and tiny springs... well, I wonder just how effective they are. Do they really last, and do the (in my opinion) tiny frame rails continue to fit properly with wear? Also, what's the deal on the guide rod? I can hear the recoil spring scraping against it when I work the slide. Gah! It's such an awful sound. And why a flat coil spring? Is it superior in some way to a round coil spring?

    Also, I thought it was unbelieveably light. My 1911 has some flip to it, but wouldn't a pistol this light be difficult to control? I've seen Glock shooters do very well with their pistols, but it seems like something that light would be difficult to shoot well.

    Who designed those finger grooves? They looked like they were molded into the frame, and they're uncomfortable in my hands and his. What's up with fixed ergonomics like that? Are they supposed to feel funny but just work right when you shoot it?

    The frame itself, if you'll pardon the characterization, feels like a toy gun. Actually, fully assembled it feels rather like a toy. That doesn't change my approach to it as a weapon, but does it feel strange forever, or is that something you get used to? Also, what genius came up with the open void behind the mag well? I'm guessing it's there to reduce weight while still keeping the grip the desired shape, but jeez, I found all kinds of grime in there. It was chock full of lint from being carried all the time, and it was a bit of a pain to clean it all out.

    The really nagging question I have is one of tastes. On my 1911, I have upgraded parts for quality, adapted or replaced parts according to my taste, and have done what I like to make my pistol personalized. I didn't really notice anything you could do to a Glock to improve or personalize it. I know it has fewer controls than the 1911, but what can you do to change it into a personal weapon instead of a cookie-cutter service pistol?

    Now, there were some things I really liked. It took only a few drops of oil to lube it according to the instructions. One bottle of CLP will last a lifetime, even if it feels like it's insufficiently lubed. I also found it remarkably easy to conceal. It's ugly as homemade soap, but the shape of it does disappear nicely in my buddy's concealment holster. It was really quite comfortable, too. Disassembly was VERY easy, and there wasn't any danger of putting a recoil spring cap through a window. The magazine spring felt consistent all the way through loading. The magazines themselves had a good solid feel to them. Most 1911 magazines feel a little rickety even if they're decent quality.

    So, help me out here. What's the big deal about these guns?
     
  2. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    Utter reliability seems to be the main seller. It's like the Energizer bunny, it keeps going and going. ;)
     
  3. Biker

    Biker Member

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    My Glock 23 has gone 'bang' everytime I've pulled the trigger for over 16,000 rounds now with little to no maintainance. Due to the grip angle, it 'points' very natuarally for me. I own three other Glocks and I've yet to experience a malfunction. What more can you ask for?
    I'd rather have a plain looking faithful wife than a 'knockout' who may fail me when the chips are down.:)
    Biker
     
  4. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Member

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    U can get a $4 plug to fit that open hole behind the grip - it's called a Jentra plug, but there are a few different kinda and shapes.

    years ago, lasers were being attached to the trigger guard, and they would put some of the electronic parts in that space, along with the battery.
     
  5. Ankeny

    Ankeny Member

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    I am a 1911/2011 kind of guy. As an active competitior, in some years I'll shoot 50,000 rounds through 1911 and 2011 style pistols. I carry a Glock 26. Light weight, high capacity, nuts reliable, extremely accurate...
     
  6. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    1911 guy here too, but I have a small group of Glocks around.

    Reliability over many many tens of thousands of rounds is what has sold a lot of us on the Glocks. They just don't quit. The parts DO look small and I wondered how they would hold up too at first. My only guess is that the fire control parts are engineered very well and that they are actually overbuilt for what is needed. Trigger return springs are all I have ever heard of actually breaking in a Glock fire control group, and that has been extrememly rare.

    I think you hit on one of the reasons they are so reliable, the magazines are extremely good quality and insanely durable. Even the springs in the mags seem to last forever.

    As far as upgrading it to make it better or personal, that is where people run into trouble. The gun doesn't need it, and the only Glocks I have seem malfunction with good ammunition and maintenance have been modified. If we can leave them alone for the most part they just keep ticking.
     
  7. FullMetalJacket

    FullMetalJacket Member

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    BANG! Everytime, so far.
     
  8. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    The Glock is pretty adaptable. You can get aftermarket guide rods in tungsten and stainless, captive or free, and change spring weights to suit your preferences. You can get triggers from 3.5 to the heaviest NY2, which I believe is about 12 pounds. Stock is ~5.5 and took me very little time to get used to it. Aftermarket sights are readily available, you can get frame work done to make it fit better and find slip on grips from DecalGrips and Brooks Tactical as well as Hogue. Barrels can be bought from Jarvis, BarSto, and KKM in different lengths to suit your needs. Extended mag and slide releases are available and the pistol is so simple a punch is really all the is needed to detail strip it--I think all said and done it has like 33 peices total.

    I have a Glock 20. That is a 10mm Auto. The load I am using now pushes a 180 gr Gold Dot out at 1300 fps. My brother has a Springfield MilSpec. He put an Ed Brown ambi safety and a Wilson Combat Shok-Buff kit in it. The loads he is using push a 230 gr Gold Dot at 950 fps. The Glock's grip angle takes some getting used to. And some people prefer the Gen 2.5 cause it doesn't have the finger grooves of the Gen 3 Glocks. But I find the Glock sits very well in my hand, and points naturally. My long fingers get along well with the finger grooves. The pistol's design gives it a lower bore axis than the 1911. The Glock 20 was designed from the ground up as a 10mm Auto so it's slide mass and recoil spring is ample for the task. I find the pistol to be much more comfortable to shoot than my brother's Mil Spec. The bore axis combined with the recoil characteristics of the polymer and the wider grip deposits recoil forces over a larger part of the hand. Whereas the beavertail on the 1911 bites the web of my hand, the Glock bucks and settles nicely right back on target with absolutely no discomfort for me. I could run Double Tap through it all day and not be any the worse for wear--and neither would the pistol. Plus the superb shooting characteristics of the Glock combine with a very short trigger reset to make rapid strings much easier for me with the Glock than the 1911. So the Glock is lighter, but even with mine being more powerful than the 1911, it is also more comfortable to shoot and has a much higher magazine capacity. The metal treatment is first rate, operation is simple and straight forward with no controls to bumble and a single trigger pull from bang to slide lock--the pistol only sets you back ~$500 NIB so can afford to shoot it, pick out what you don't like about it, and fix it for less than the cost of most Kimbers and higher end Springfields. I think the Glock is one of, if not the, best fighting pistols available anywhere for any price.
     
  9. pax

    pax Member

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    I hear a lot of people gripe about Glock finger grooves, but I've never been able to figure out why. I guess I must be about the only person on the planet that finds the finger grooves absolutely perfect for my hands.

    BTW, the G26 is my first love. That little pistol does everything I ask of her.

    pax
     
  10. ChuckB

    ChuckB Member

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    pax- I guess I'm the other guy. My two year old G19 feels very comfortable in my hand.

    "As far as upgrading it to make it better or personal, that is where people run into trouble. The gun doesn't need it, and the only Glocks I have seem malfunction with good ammunition and maintenance have been modified. If we can leave them alone for the most part they just keep ticking."

    ...that sounds a lot like 1911's, too. A lot of 1911 owners just can't leave well enough alone, and create accurate, unreliable guns.

    Chuck
     
  11. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

    They work well. They're easy to clean. They run even when almost completely dry (of lube). They last a very long time. They're very easy to work on.

    The internal parts are durable. The trigger return springs will break, but not much else.

    The frame rails are very durable. In fact, even out of the batch of guns with improperly bent rails very few actually failed before Glock replaced all the affected the frames. They're not so small either--they're actually a good bit bigger than the rails on my H&K USP full size. ;)

    Muzzle flip & recoil are not bad, although some folks say that they can tell the difference in behavior as the mag empties and the weight of the gun changes (I can't). The low bore axis helps with this, as does the flex in the frame.

    I don't care much for the finger-grooves, but they don't bother me. You can find the 2nd gen guns (no finger-grooves) floating around if the grooves really bother you.

    The void in the magwell can be plugged with one of various products that all do the job well. I've not heard of leaving it open causing any problems though.

    Some folks customize their Glocks. I think it kind of defeats the idea of the gun. Still, a surprising amount can be done to personalize/customize one. I have other guns that I consider to be more range toys that I have put some work & money into customizing/personalizing. I see the Glocks fitting more of a tool role than a toy role (in spite of how the frame may feel to some) ;).

    I like the idea that if I use this tool to defend my life, I won't be sweating bullets about my "baby" rusting and collecting dents in the evidence room. If I never get it back it's still served its purpose and I can buy another just like it.
     
  12. Crue4

    Crue4 Member

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    Glocks = Dependable... probably the most important aspect of a "protection" gun..

    I don't like the feel or the look... but they are what they are and that is effective, efficient, and dependable.

    I chose the XD, and saved some money for ammo...
     
  13. Harold Mayo

    Harold Mayo Member

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    Y'know, I love Glocks but I've never understood the claims of utter reliability. I've also never seen any 1911's choke like some people claim. As a matter of fact, in all of the shooting that I've done personally and seen done over the years, it's been Glocks that have choked the most.

    I don't know if it's an issue of maintenance or training or a combination or something else entirely, but I've only had two guns EVER have any problems. One, a Springfield Lightweight Compact, just needed a new extractor. The other, a BLS-9, has yet to be fixed.

    Glocks are popular because they're cheap as handguns go and pretty good all the way around otherwise. Easy to accessorize (1911's may be more of a Barbie-gun but it's cheaper and easier to trick out a Glock). Cheap (yeah, I know I already said it, but more people would have a custom 1911 if they cost $400 to $500).
     
  14. gunfan

    gunfan Member

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    I chose the Glock 20.

    It is the only Glock that I have, and will likeley be the only Glock that I will EVER have. It fires the most versatile autopistol cartridge extant, and shoots it very well.

    It is performing "nightstand duty" as we speak. That speaks for itself. Enough said.

    Scott
     
  15. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    I like it for its simplicity, hell and back reliability, light weight and trigger.

    However, regardless of why I like it, you'll never understand completely until you shoot one.

    Go ahead. You've already fondled it intimately.:evil: You might as well go all the way and shoot it.:D
     
  16. ikko909

    ikko909 Member

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    Glock= reliability and simplicity
     
  17. harrydog

    harrydog Member

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    Glocks have a reputation for being utterly reliable and they are for the most part, although there are people who have problems with them and they do sometimes break, just like anything mechanical. I owned 3 of them in the past and was happy with them at the time but have since moved on to other guns that I like much better.
    If I ever decide to buy another polymer-framed gun, it most likely won't be a Glock, because I think there are better choices out there. That's just my opinion.
    Glock was the first to be commercially successful with polymer guns in this country and they got a huge lead over everyone else in terms of name recognition and reputation. That's one reason why they're so popular. But I really think there are some better designs out there. For example I'd buy a Springfield XD before I'd buy another Glock. I wouldn't try to convince a Glock lover to buy something else though.
    Lots of people love Glocks and lots of people hate them. The bottom line is, they're good guns, but whether or not you like them is mostly a matter of taste.
     
  18. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Finger grooves,,,,
    The finger grooves were incorporated into the frame design to win points so Glock could meet the criteria to import the small Glock 26 and Glock 27 pistols into the USA.

    They still can't import the .380 acp Glock except for law enforcement or military sales because the caliber and size do not provide enough points on the BATFE import regulations to make it allowable.

    Since parts of the same mould fixtures are used in casting all of the frame sizes, it just made sense of economy to add the finger grooves to the larger frames.

    Like them or hate them, this is why they are there.
     
  19. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Finger Grooves

    Finger grooves may, or may not be useful, depending on how they fit your fingers. In my case they usually don't and for that reason I avoid them on any handgun. Given that different folks have different sized hands I would think that manufacturers would either leave them off or make them optional.

    A correct grip is important to marksmanship, and if the shape of the handle forces one to take a contorted one the grooves are obviously counterproductive. Before you get grooved stocks be sure they fit your hand. What they do for someone else is a moot point.
     
  20. middy

    middy Member

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    The "peaks" of the finger grooves are solid plastic. It's no big deal to break them off with a wood rasp, sand the grip smooth, and stretch a bike inner-tube or something over it... who cares? It's not a Barbie-gun.

    I know some of you like to play dress-up with your pistols, but I prefer to just shoot mine. :neener:

    I'll take internal parts stamped from honest rolled steel over MIM crap any day. Sure you can find quality, machined steel parts for your 1911, buy them, pay your gunsmith to get them working properly, test them, maybe pay another gunsmith to try again... or you could just buy something reliable out of the box. What is it, only $1500 for a "real" 1911 unless you can find old parts and fit them yourself?

    I love the 1911, don't get me wrong. I wish I could afford a good one, but I don't trust cast or MIM parts, and I don't have the tools or the skills to build my own. So, I carry a Glock.

    A Glock is like a CD to the 1911's LP. Sure the LP has better sound quality, if your system is good enough to show the difference, and you have a really nice turntable and needle, and all your vinyl is pristine. The CD, you just pop it in and it sounds good, light scratches don't matter, and the laser doesn't wear out.

    :D
     
  21. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    I'll find out soon enough about the finger grooves. Had a G-19 2nd Gen and it was a great gun. Sold it. Now I'm picking up a 3rd Gen G20 today. Got it for $475 + tax new with 3 high cap mags. Grooves seemed to fit my hand just fine but haven't shot one with them yet so the jury is still out.
     
  22. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    For heavens sake Az... didn't you know that the Glock is the terrorist's favorite gun due to it's ability to slip right through the old airport x-ray thingie?? :rolleyes: Or so said Jack Anderson back in the day. :p

    Shoot one. Or two. Carry one. Or two. All day. IWB. OWB. Ankle.

    Frame/grip sorta flexes (or so I perceive) when fired + lower bore makes recoil quite manageable (to me anyway). The 21 kinda puuuuuusssshhhhes back in my hand when fired. Interesting.

    Trigger is kinda spongey and takes some gettin used to.

    All of mine are quite accurate and reliable, right outta the box. (So are my 1911's tho').

    I own 5 of the darned things. 19, 17, 26, 21 and 30. Next to the JMB 1911's and S&W revolvers Gaston has made me a believer based on qty. I own, accuracy and reliability.

    Price point doesn't hurt too much either.

    They don't tend to cause my britches to sag on the right side as much as some other handguns I've been known to carry.

    It's just a handgun. No real "Pride of Ownership" but I'd have no problem carrying one to thwart ner-do-wells and evil-doers intent on causing me harm, if JMB and Colt hadn't invented the 1911 or Horace and Daniel hadn't gotten together.

    Of course, as with all things, YMMV

    Every time I take a new female out shooting, I bring the 26. Don't know why, but they have all commented on the "baby" Glock and each has done quite well with it.

    When I bought my first (the 19) back in '91, the salesman told me it would become the 1911 of the future. I knew what he was talking about, but I laughed out loud none-the-less. Maybe he was right. (LOL) Maybe not.
     
  23. crofrog

    crofrog Member

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    Probally a g19... G17's have 17rd mag's. Just FYI.

    The part's in the gun aren't loadbearing and have a very low failure rate. So I guess they are sufficent. The slide to frame fit is pretty loose already. So I don't think it really matter's to much if they wear a little.

    The guide rod is just there to make assembley more convient. It can go away the the flat part of the spring mate's to the inside of the slide and the barrel.

    I personally belive that recoil is pretty subjective. Also I feel that the low bore axis combined with the way the grip angle forces you to tention your tendon's it makes the gun operate fairly flatly and return to the same POA.

    I dunno why the stuck the finger groove's on there. they either fit your hands of they dont. nothing a dremel, file and some sandpaper can't fix though :)

    the open void is to help the gun drain much out of the trigger assembly / sear area.

    On the glocks you can change the trigger face(smooth or notched), trigger pull weight (both the cocking weight and the break weight) and the trigger return weight. As well as the mag release and the slide lock. Sight's too I guess.

    There really isn't much to change on the other hand there isn't much that need's to be changed.

    that they do... glocks will run completly dry the lube is mostly to make them wear better. also if the trigger connector isn't lubed the trigger get's even grittery

     
  24. Richard.Howe

    Richard.Howe Member

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    They're interesting? No
    They're flashy? No
    They get oohs and ahhhs at the range? No
    They're cheap? No
    They're 1" at 50 yds accurate? No
    The trigger is nice? No

    But mine have lasted for tens of thousands of rounds, and never burped. I took it out of the box, cleaned it, loaded it and went to the range. It is an optimized, well-engineered, soul-less hunk of reliable steel and plastic. I do not love it like I do my 1911s. But I might trust it just a bit more...

    If you want to tinker and play and spend lots of money and have a highly personalized totem -- do not buy a Glock.

    I want to customize mine like I want to customize my phillips-head screwdriver set.

    FWIW!
    Rich
     
  25. RON in PA

    RON in PA Member

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    Why do I think that Azrael had a grin on his face when he started this thread.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    I used to think Glocks were the almost perfect combat pistol until I started getting jams with my G19 and G26 when used with HP ammo. I think it was the ten round mags coupled with feed ramps cut a little off spec. I have another G19 that seems 100% with new 15 round mags of current manufacture. So far no problems. The firing pin system reguires looking after, get some crud in the channel and hard primers can be a problem. The trigger is something you just have to get used to, it's never going to be a 1911 trigger, but what else is?
     
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