TheeBadOne
Member
I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on that.
Please help! Good guy arrested in Ohio
- Thread starter Ian
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Who is this guy? Was he traveling to a gun show or something? My guess is that he would have been cited for improper transportation of a firearm if he had not been packing a loaded .40-caliber handgun, a loaded .380-caliber handgun, an additional loaded magazine, seven knives, a canister of mace, a handcuff key, mace, several swords, a .308-caliber assault type rifle and several thousand rounds of assorted ammunition. Was there a jumbo sized roll of tin oil in there? This is either a case of a normal guy caught in unusual circumstances ...or he's just plain weird....and not that, that is illegal...but it can be justification for checking someone out a little more carefully.
SFriesth
Member
Hello Everyone,
I am new to this list. Found out about it on another list. The Liberty Round Table discussion list, which is hosted and maintained by Jeffery L. "Hunter" Jordan. The original post by Ian has a link to the Liberty Round Table web site.
The LRT hosts an annual get together where we can meet in person. Always at some rural site where we camp out and have access to a shooting range. We talk about every freedom issue under the sun. We eat some great chili. And we sit around the campfire at night and make S'mores and talk some more. Proper gun safety is taught to the people who because of financial condition (college students are still poor) or location are not gun owners. Hunter always brings a variety of guns and is unselfish about letting others try them out and burn up his ammo. He is one of the good guys.
Not sure about this "willfully" violating the law. He was coming home from visiting family at Christmas time. If he is like most of us, using the last of his vacation time. And probably driving straight through to get home and back to work. So he probably drove through several states during the day. He is used to legally carrying in his home state and might not have thought about the legal ramifications of every state he passed through on his way home.
If you are interested, the "assault type rifle", was a FAL. I hear he was a regular participant on a FAL message board.
To register for this forum they asked me what I had done to support RKBA. Sad to say, not much. A couple more payments and I will be a Life member of the NRA. Have been a Life Member of the Illinois State Rifle Association for a while now. Occasional donations to JPFO. But Hunter has done much to support RKBA. Through financial contributions, and the online forums he provides with his own machines at his expense. So I will support him and his legal defense.
Scott
I am new to this list. Found out about it on another list. The Liberty Round Table discussion list, which is hosted and maintained by Jeffery L. "Hunter" Jordan. The original post by Ian has a link to the Liberty Round Table web site.
The LRT hosts an annual get together where we can meet in person. Always at some rural site where we camp out and have access to a shooting range. We talk about every freedom issue under the sun. We eat some great chili. And we sit around the campfire at night and make S'mores and talk some more. Proper gun safety is taught to the people who because of financial condition (college students are still poor) or location are not gun owners. Hunter always brings a variety of guns and is unselfish about letting others try them out and burn up his ammo. He is one of the good guys.
Not sure about this "willfully" violating the law. He was coming home from visiting family at Christmas time. If he is like most of us, using the last of his vacation time. And probably driving straight through to get home and back to work. So he probably drove through several states during the day. He is used to legally carrying in his home state and might not have thought about the legal ramifications of every state he passed through on his way home.
If you are interested, the "assault type rifle", was a FAL. I hear he was a regular participant on a FAL message board.
To register for this forum they asked me what I had done to support RKBA. Sad to say, not much. A couple more payments and I will be a Life member of the NRA. Have been a Life Member of the Illinois State Rifle Association for a while now. Occasional donations to JPFO. But Hunter has done much to support RKBA. Through financial contributions, and the online forums he provides with his own machines at his expense. So I will support him and his legal defense.
Scott
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Why is it all the good guys get arrested? Sometime back, a teenager here killed a homeowner while trying to burgle the homeowner's abode, only the homeowner was home. Everybody said he was a good kid and had never been in trouble with the law before. He participated in church, was a good student at school, and helped out his neighbors. I am just continually shocked how it is that all these good people, like the kid here or the guy for which this thread is written, keep getting arrested on felonies.
While I enjoy the aspect of laughing at the guy for being so stupid as to be carrying concealed where it wasn't legal and breaking the speeding laws in the process, thereby drawing attention to himself with the local LEOs, the truth of the matter is that I feel sorry for this guy. How could he be such a moron, breaking multiple laws, drawing attention to himself, and NOT having a legal fund already established????
You know, you plays the game, you takes the chances, and if you get caught, you pays the penalty. He was dumb enough to break the law and dumb enough to get caught comitting a felony. He should fit in well in jail with all the others who have been caught committing felonies.
While I enjoy the aspect of laughing at the guy for being so stupid as to be carrying concealed where it wasn't legal and breaking the speeding laws in the process, thereby drawing attention to himself with the local LEOs, the truth of the matter is that I feel sorry for this guy. How could he be such a moron, breaking multiple laws, drawing attention to himself, and NOT having a legal fund already established????
You know, you plays the game, you takes the chances, and if you get caught, you pays the penalty. He was dumb enough to break the law and dumb enough to get caught comitting a felony. He should fit in well in jail with all the others who have been caught committing felonies.
Bill St. Clair
Member
I can't speak for Hunter, but I have considered carrying a cuff key in case somebody cuffs me or a friend sometime and I decide that I don't recognize their authority to do so. Of course, it would only be useful if I had practiced using it while cuffed, and I would do so should I ever decide to carry one.
We're living in a police state, folks. The time for mindless obeisance to "authority" is over. We must constantly remind the police that they work for us, not the other way around. I hope Hunter finds a way to send these goons to federal prison or at least bankrupts them for violating his civil rights.
Our government has made it clear, with the orange terrorist alert status, that there is reason to be concerned for our safety. Travelling with a battle rifle makes perfect sense to me. And I guess Hunter likes knives and swords. He was arrested before the troopers saw the contents of his locked case. So I can't see how his FAL (my guess) or the swords have anything to do with it. His only transgression was forgetting on entering the People's Republic of Ohio that he was no longer in a free state, hence needed to store his handguns to avoid arrest by the local jack-booted thugs. He can legally carry concealed in many states.
BTW, Don Lobo Tiggre and Sunni Maravillosa, the unattributed authors of the letter that Ian quoted near the beginning of this thread, have created a page to track Hunter's case: Free Hunter: Fight Ohio's Gun-Grabbing Goons
[edited to say: my post and SFriesth's appear to have crossed in the ether
]Chris Rhines
Member
(Deep, calming breath)
As far as I'm concerned, all of you people blathering on about how Jeff shouldn't have violated the law, too bad he got caught, he must be some kind of nutcase, all of you are no better than the Bradyites. Worse, in fact. At least the Bradyites don't screw their own.
A hardcore pro-gun activist, a man who has put more of his time and money into the RKBA than any TEN of you, gets pinched for violating some unconstitutional and immoral BS law, and you can't even give him some moral support? You can't even say, "Yeah, tough break, hope he comes through okay?" You've got to crack jokes and moralize about 'obeying the law.' WHAT IN THE BLEEDING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
Jeff is a good friend of mine. He doesn't deserve to go to jail, and he sure as hell doesn't deserve to hear this kind of self-righteous whimpering from his erstwhile allies. If you can't be supportive, at least have the common goddamn courtesy to be quiet.
- Chris
As far as I'm concerned, all of you people blathering on about how Jeff shouldn't have violated the law, too bad he got caught, he must be some kind of nutcase, all of you are no better than the Bradyites. Worse, in fact. At least the Bradyites don't screw their own.
A hardcore pro-gun activist, a man who has put more of his time and money into the RKBA than any TEN of you, gets pinched for violating some unconstitutional and immoral BS law, and you can't even give him some moral support? You can't even say, "Yeah, tough break, hope he comes through okay?" You've got to crack jokes and moralize about 'obeying the law.' WHAT IN THE BLEEDING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
Jeff is a good friend of mine. He doesn't deserve to go to jail, and he sure as hell doesn't deserve to hear this kind of self-righteous whimpering from his erstwhile allies. If you can't be supportive, at least have the common goddamn courtesy to be quiet.
- Chris
Politically Incorrect
Member
I agree with you Alan. Who was harmed? No one - not even the state troopers who pulled him over for speeding. I suppose if he had some criminal intent, he would have used available firearms against the OSHP.
But he didn't. What seperates this guy from a criminal? According to some...nothing. He broke a law on the books. But a criminal has harmed someone by his actions. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly who was the victim of this crime.
If the people of Ohio believe that a law can prevent someone from obtaining or carrying what they want, then I'm surrounded by idiots. I would think someone would have figured this out during Prohibition.
Glock Glockler
Member
WOW!
I didnt realize things were in such a deplorable condition around here. Would he have been better off if he played it a bit smarter and didnt get caught, sure, but is the law he's trying to get around even just?
I'd like to know what all you die law ist die LAW folks would say regards to people who were executed for helping slaves escape or folks in Europe who were hiding people from the Nazis. Either carrying is a natural right, just the same as practicing your religion, or it's not a right.
Preacherman, would you be whisteling the same tune if someone in California was arrested for saying a prayer in town square after the govt declared it a religously neutral zone so that none of the townspeople would be offended?
It's rather amazing to see people whop claim to believe in principle sacrifice every last vestige of it on an alter of obedience to the state. I've met Jordan, ate a few burgers and downed a few beers with him, and he is a nice and decent guy. I was tempted to write that 'he's one of us' but I'm not sure who "us" is anymore, and it's certainly not some who I'd assumed to be.
Chris II, get me a link to his paypal donation fund. I'm helping out and I'll get those who I know to help out as well. The words "shall not be infringed" still mean something to me.
I didnt realize things were in such a deplorable condition around here. Would he have been better off if he played it a bit smarter and didnt get caught, sure, but is the law he's trying to get around even just?
I'd like to know what all you die law ist die LAW folks would say regards to people who were executed for helping slaves escape or folks in Europe who were hiding people from the Nazis. Either carrying is a natural right, just the same as practicing your religion, or it's not a right.
Preacherman, would you be whisteling the same tune if someone in California was arrested for saying a prayer in town square after the govt declared it a religously neutral zone so that none of the townspeople would be offended?
It's rather amazing to see people whop claim to believe in principle sacrifice every last vestige of it on an alter of obedience to the state. I've met Jordan, ate a few burgers and downed a few beers with him, and he is a nice and decent guy. I was tempted to write that 'he's one of us' but I'm not sure who "us" is anymore, and it's certainly not some who I'd assumed to be.
Chris II, get me a link to his paypal donation fund. I'm helping out and I'll get those who I know to help out as well. The words "shall not be infringed" still mean something to me.
Daedalus
Member
Well you see, if he has the guns in his car he might possibly harm someone with them. Life is a lot easier for the government when you legitimize prior restraint.
El Tejon
Member
Chris, have you read Martin Luther King's "Letter from Birmingham Jail"? It helps me.
I hope your friend comes out O.K. In criminal law, it ALWAYS depends.
I hope his arrest spurs people to change that silly, ineffectual law.
I hope your friend comes out O.K. In criminal law, it ALWAYS depends.
I hope his arrest spurs people to change that silly, ineffectual law.
I've carried before where not legal when I didn't feel safe, which is most of the time on the open road. I did, however not hav lotsa gun paraphrenalia on my person and kept said firearm inside a backpack or tote for just this reason. I was also pulled over 3 times while doing so and never questioned about a firearm.
glocksman
Member
I don't agree with the 'law is the law' folks.
I just pointed out that it was a risk to carry concealed in a state that not only prohibits CCW, but makes it a felony for a first time offense of doing so.
I know people here who have ignored the law when they visit another one of Indiana's neighbors *cough* Illinois *cough*.
The only thing he's really guilty of IMHO is not taking the 'concealed' part of CCW seriously enough.
If that trooper hadn't spotted that magazine carrier on his belt, Mr. Jordan would already be back in NH by now.
For God's sake if you have to carry illegally in the Mordor states, conceal the weapon.
That said, I hope he beats the charge.
I just pointed out that it was a risk to carry concealed in a state that not only prohibits CCW, but makes it a felony for a first time offense of doing so.
I know people here who have ignored the law when they visit another one of Indiana's neighbors *cough* Illinois *cough*.
The only thing he's really guilty of IMHO is not taking the 'concealed' part of CCW seriously enough.
If that trooper hadn't spotted that magazine carrier on his belt, Mr. Jordan would already be back in NH by now.
For God's sake if you have to carry illegally in the Mordor states, conceal the weapon.
That said, I hope he beats the charge.
Glacius_the_Invincible
Member
Why NOT the handcuff key? I don't understand why the handcuff key was even something to list among several loaded firearms and a few swords. I've never heard of any law that prohibits the transportation of an improperly keychained handcuff key.
I carry a cuff key every day on my keyring just as a novelty item. I don't really see why it would be cause for alarm for a police officer.
I carry a cuff key every day on my keyring just as a novelty item. I don't really see why it would be cause for alarm for a police officer.
suijurisfreeman
Member
The right of self-defense is probably the most fundamental right of a free Human Being. Pennsylvania'a Bill of Rights clearly states that the RKBA shall not be questioned, Kentucky's Bill of Rights stated that way also until 1851. Many of the State's Bill of Rights, including Ohio's simply state that the people have the right to keep and bear arms - no lawful authority is delegated to the Legislature to pass "laws" regulating the bearing of arms - period!
Where's the beef? as the Wendy's commercial used to ask. Where does the Ohio Legislature presume to get the lawful authority to regulate the bearing of arms? This is the fundamental issue that should be addressed. Why can't people see this?
This is why my son and I carry a copy of Constructive Notice while carrying out and about in Kentucky. It places the LEO on notice that we are in fact exercising a right that we have the reasonable expectation is protected by the Bill of Rights. If they then violate that right, they are acting in bad faith and therefore cannot claim good faith immunity. My son has been questioned twice by LEO's since July of 2003 as to why he was carrying, but they didn't do squat after he served them a copy of Constructive Notice. Not claiming it's a "silver bullet", but it gets it on the record from the get-go.
Where's the beef? as the Wendy's commercial used to ask. Where does the Ohio Legislature presume to get the lawful authority to regulate the bearing of arms? This is the fundamental issue that should be addressed. Why can't people see this?
This is why my son and I carry a copy of Constructive Notice while carrying out and about in Kentucky. It places the LEO on notice that we are in fact exercising a right that we have the reasonable expectation is protected by the Bill of Rights. If they then violate that right, they are acting in bad faith and therefore cannot claim good faith immunity. My son has been questioned twice by LEO's since July of 2003 as to why he was carrying, but they didn't do squat after he served them a copy of Constructive Notice. Not claiming it's a "silver bullet", but it gets it on the record from the get-go.
Ditto what Chris Raines said...
Of the law and order types, some seem to be unable to resist the urge to demonize. He's a "loonie"/"stupid"/"moron" (insert favorite pejorative here). I suppose expressing one's opinion in this way creates some perceived distance between oneself and the arrestee; perhaps makes one feel more secure? Good god almighty, I almost fell off my chair when one member attempted to float the "good boy burglar" analogy. Some serious introspection is in order.
But for the stroke of some bureaucrats' pen, Mr. Jordan is each and every one of us!
Of the law and order types, some seem to be unable to resist the urge to demonize. He's a "loonie"/"stupid"/"moron" (insert favorite pejorative here). I suppose expressing one's opinion in this way creates some perceived distance between oneself and the arrestee; perhaps makes one feel more secure? Good god almighty, I almost fell off my chair when one member attempted to float the "good boy burglar" analogy. Some serious introspection is in order.
But for the stroke of some bureaucrats' pen, Mr. Jordan is each and every one of us!
manwithoutahome
member
I hope that Mr. Jordan beats the wrap. I don't have much but I'll see what I can do in Jan. or Feb.
I really think that Mr. Jordan should have uncovered or at least had gotten a quick release lock box and it didn't come to this, as a person who is really into the RKBA, he should have checked Packing.org and did as was advised at this time.
I agree that we should have civil protests to get the laws changed but we can't do it one at a time. With each person making a point, the money will start to get low and pretty soon we are going to go broke with each case. Now, if this were a convoy of folks who could get one lawyer, and make one case then the money would be better spent.
We need large cases, not individual ones to go at this full force. www.keepandbeararms.com went broke with their case, and will probably do so with this one also. You can't expect any help from the NRA/GOA etc.. because they know that individual cases are going to put them under.
We need to pool everything and everyone together and hit this full force, not nickle and dime it, and just pour all our money into one giant "hail mary" play.
After it plays out, we can either 1) win our Right back, 2) take up arms or 3) tell our grandchildren that we tried our best.
M
I respect the man and what he is for, I don't agree with his actions at this time if it was done on purpose.
I really think that Mr. Jordan should have uncovered or at least had gotten a quick release lock box and it didn't come to this, as a person who is really into the RKBA, he should have checked Packing.org and did as was advised at this time.
I agree that we should have civil protests to get the laws changed but we can't do it one at a time. With each person making a point, the money will start to get low and pretty soon we are going to go broke with each case. Now, if this were a convoy of folks who could get one lawyer, and make one case then the money would be better spent.
We need large cases, not individual ones to go at this full force. www.keepandbeararms.com went broke with their case, and will probably do so with this one also. You can't expect any help from the NRA/GOA etc.. because they know that individual cases are going to put them under.
We need to pool everything and everyone together and hit this full force, not nickle and dime it, and just pour all our money into one giant "hail mary" play.
After it plays out, we can either 1) win our Right back, 2) take up arms or 3) tell our grandchildren that we tried our best.
M
I respect the man and what he is for, I don't agree with his actions at this time if it was done on purpose.
TheeBadOne
Member
Edward429451
member
Yep.
In my mind, this is like striking at the leaves of a tree to chop it down. Even if we manage to pull down a few leaves, the roots are still there. It's a heck of a nice thought though. Freedom, liberty and rights begin and end on the street. This late in the game, I don't think there is a peaceful way to stand up for ones rights. An unpopular dangerous opinion, but still very possibly true.
Somebody gets it! (Bfoto) Hey suijurisfreeman, could I get a copy of the constructive notice from you?
Ummm, yeah! Novelty item, THATS why I have a cuff key. Jus a novelty.
I hope he beats it but I'm too poor to help.
Bill St. Clair
Member
Edward429451
member
Thanks Bill.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I'm sorry, but I cannot believe some of what I'm reading here. For a web forum where we seem to pride ourselves on being able to think for ourselves, I see a lot, and I mean a lot of you regurgitating the same fear-mongering idiocy spewed by ignorant reporters.
So effing what if he had a handcuff key? Did he use it to try and escape? Is there now some sort of law against mere "civilians" possessing a set of cuffs?
So what if he had one gun, four guns, or eighty guns loaded in his car? I know that I'm not the only person here who's ever gone to the range with enough guns in a vehicle to invade Bolivia.
To all of you who are applauding his arrest, and joking about it, how would you feel if your collection was laid out for all to see after you'd been busted for breaking a law for which there was no victim, no property damage, or nothing taken?
To you apologists for the state, please, tell me, how are we all safer now that a man who was minding his own business is behind bars?
How is this just? How is it right? How is it that in a country that supposedly upholds personal liberty, a man can be arrested for simply having a pistol on his belt in the wrong location?
In short, since when do we delight in injustice being foisted upon someone over a law that each and every one of you know to be both unconstitutional, and repugnant to anyone who truly believes in personal freedom.
So effing what if he had a handcuff key? Did he use it to try and escape? Is there now some sort of law against mere "civilians" possessing a set of cuffs?
So what if he had one gun, four guns, or eighty guns loaded in his car? I know that I'm not the only person here who's ever gone to the range with enough guns in a vehicle to invade Bolivia.
To all of you who are applauding his arrest, and joking about it, how would you feel if your collection was laid out for all to see after you'd been busted for breaking a law for which there was no victim, no property damage, or nothing taken?
To you apologists for the state, please, tell me, how are we all safer now that a man who was minding his own business is behind bars?
How is this just? How is it right? How is it that in a country that supposedly upholds personal liberty, a man can be arrested for simply having a pistol on his belt in the wrong location?
In short, since when do we delight in injustice being foisted upon someone over a law that each and every one of you know to be both unconstitutional, and repugnant to anyone who truly believes in personal freedom.
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TheeBadOne
Member
I don't know, did he get a chance to?
Well....I'm not really a Law and Order Type, and I certainly think the Ohio law is an unjust one that will be overturned eventually. Until then, I will not strap a few guns to my body, carry swords, wear a ninja suit, or believe that I'm a chartacter out of a fantasy novel. Good luck to those who do. But I sincerely hope he beats it (and will make a donation to his defense fund).
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Well, maybe we ought to ban guns, too. After all, he certainly could have used all that hardware to much more devastating effect in an escape attempt than he could a key.
To those of you who have contributed to the defense fund or offered to do so, you have my sincerest thanks. I'll post PayPal info as soon as I get it.
To those of you who think that a man should be thrown in prison for 3 years and denied the legal right to own a gun for the rest of his life for committing the heinous crime of carrying a pistol in his car, just go away, ok? This thread isn't intended to convince anyone of anything; it's intended to find those who have a spine, a belief in freedom, and a willingness to help a compatriot in need.
To those of you who think that a man should be thrown in prison for 3 years and denied the legal right to own a gun for the rest of his life for committing the heinous crime of carrying a pistol in his car, just go away, ok? This thread isn't intended to convince anyone of anything; it's intended to find those who have a spine, a belief in freedom, and a willingness to help a compatriot in need.
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