Pocket Carry. Really?

[oldfool]

"all of about 2 seconds or less to pull my Seecamp out of my pocket"

Some would argue that two seconds is an end of lifetime long eternity, and they would be right under some circumstances, I won't argue with that

But outside of competition, professional law enforcement and such, extreme few can really pull off the true fast draw with anything less than unimpeded OWB carry.

CCW is always a matter of compromise, you just have to choose your own, according to your own threat assessment and the lifestyle you choose to live. There are no wrong choices when it comes to that, win, lose, or draw.

PS
but if the attacker is 1-2 feet distant with weapon in hand, a hole in your side is a hole in your side, be it strong side or weak side
fast draw or slow draw, you won't walk away, you will be carried away in some condition or other
a 6 inch blade in between your ribs can put a real serious dent in your day, it can get real "complicated"
attacker without a weapon, that's a real tough shooting call to make, right or wrong, you will be 2nd guessed of course

 

[David E]

Show us a pic of a viable sleeve holster, please.

 

[David E]

"about" two seconds implies a guess.

The advantage to a tuckable or IWB is that one can carry a real gun/caliber. You produce a tiny, sightless .32, I produce a .45

I personally don't favor tuckables except for very limited applications. I do favor a good IWB that carries a .45 compact Kimber.

A gun in the pocket, even a .32, beats the hell out of the .44 magnum at home.

 

[okc-zee]

I carry an S&W 640 in my front pocket in a ross pocket guard...no probs yet...

 

[mavracer]

Yes, it'll have to be addressed, but the point is, drawing a gun from a holster is faster than plunging into your pocket.

really try it with a timer and be honest. pocket vs. IWB with a cover garment make sure you try it one handed too.

Personally I do not know how people carry in pants pockets. I would print horribly when walking.

I came to the realization a long time ago nobody is checking out the bulge in my pocket.

 

[CTPhil]

Show us a pic of a viable sleeve holster, please.

Here's mine, it's the same both sides for right or left carry.

 

[Mike1234567]

really try it with a timer and be honest. pocket vs. IWB with a cover garment make sure you try it one handed too.

I came to the realization a long time ago nobody is checking out the bulge in my pocket.

Yeah me neither, brother. Oh the horrors of growing old.

 

[knotquiteawake]

"about" two seconds implies a guess.

The advantage to a tuckable or IWB is that one can carry a real gun/caliber. You produce a tiny, sightless .32, I produce a .45

I personally don't favor tuckables except for very limited applications. I do favor a good IWB that carries a .45 compact Kimber.

A gun in the pocket, even a .32, beats the hell out of the .44 magnum at home.

I don't have anyone with a stopwatch around me right now, but counting out loud I get just to the end of OneThousand One and am just starting to say OneThousand Two by the time the pistol has cleared my pocket and is pointed dead ahead.

Also, at one or two feet I supposed that going for the gun might not even be viable, more likely its going to be a scuffle and the first person to get some distance will have the advantage.

If I owned a 9mm or a .45 It would likely stay at home on the dresser. Compromise is the name of the game. The only time I could see myself with something bigger available to me outside of the home is if I managed to get a hold of another .38 special snubby to put in the center console of the car. But I digress... the real discussion here is pocket carry and my free internet opinion on it is that its workin' out A-Ok for me so far but thats because I have a very small gun. If I had a bigger gun it would be IWB/OWB of some kind.

 

[Red Cent]

A while ago, I used to shoot with some LEOs. Do you remember the B29 Speed Rock?

Face to face (like 18 inches), bring the weakhand up and with full weakhand, hit the target with a hard pushing blow while stepping back and drawing your weapon. Shoot four times. From the hip.
Starting with both hands by your side, I would be surprised if a true pocket carry could do it in 3 seconds.

Pocket carry people should try this.

I watched a top shooter show us various ways of carry. One was in cargo pants pocket.
I still won't pocket carry.

We all know that if it works for you........... No criticism of the pocket people.

 

[David E]

really try it with a timer and be honest. pocket vs. IWB with a cover garment make sure you try it one handed too.

Of course I'll be honest about it. Anything less proves/confirms nothing.

And it doesn't really matter how fast you can get the gun out, it matters how fast you can get a hit on target.

I'm already expecting the "well, that's just how fast YOU can do it, I'm faster than you with that mode of carry (but don't want to prove it.....) so you didn't prove anything!"

 

[Warp]

The pocket handgun is generally used at arms length or not much farther. Then it occurred to me that if you are at arms length, how do you draw?

IMO the people who say they are used at arms length are simply trying to convince themselves that the small, weak, hard to shoot pocket gun they rarely train with is a good choice.

How the hell can anybody honestly say they can predict that they will have the option of defending themselves with lethal force within such a short range?

 

[Red Cent]

"CQB Solutions

We know that urban gunfights are short duration, high intensity events characterized by sudden violence at close range. The actual distances, however, might astound many whose total CQB training program consists of "hammers" at seven yards. You see, over 85% of these fights actually occur much closer -- like within 10 feet! Many of them, in fact, take place well within arm's length.
Rather than being "unthinkable", as one popular writer claims, such truly close quarters are quite the norm. The dynamics involved in this type of fight are no different than those for any other type of close quarters combat. As I tell my CQB students, at such a close interval, even a blind man with a rusty homemade zip gun can get lucky. "

http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18394

He addresses the "Speed Rock" without the "push off balance" move.

 

[David E]

No one doubts some, maybe many, violent encounters take place within arms reach.

But some, maybe many, pocket-pistol advocates think they all do.

 

[Warp]

No one doubts some, maybe many, violent encounters take place within arms reach.

But some, maybe many, pocket-pistol advocates think they all do.

My 642 is good far beyond arms reach. Granted I generally carry a larger duty caliber auto, but still

 

[Guillermo]

While I am an advocate of practicing drawing (getting a proper grip is my Achilles Heel), most of us civilians are likely to have a little warning.

The six in the D Frame and a speed strip are most properly more than enough.

 

[mavracer]

Face to face (like 18 inches), bring the weakhand up and with full weakhand, hit the target with a hard pushing blow while stepping back and drawing your weapon. Shoot four times. From the hip.
Starting with both hands by your side, I would be surprised if a true pocket carry could do it in 3 seconds.

To be quite honest I'd be suprised if half the CCWers I know could do it in 5 seconds from a IPSC rig.
Practice will make a big difference. If you practice IWB and don't practice from the pocket of course you'll be faster IWB than from the pocket. I carry both IWB and Pocket and practice both ways and I'll be quite honest I'll average faster times from IWB than from my pocket if both hands are free and out of the pocket but It's close enough though that times over lap. However if I start with my hand in my pocket it's much faster rivaling my best times from a IPSC rig and if I try to draw from a IWB under a cover garment it slows down and becomes eratic as it can be a chalange to get my T-shirt out of the way.

 

[Guillermo]

it can be a chalange to get my T-shirt out of the way.

That is always the thing that slows my draw down the most.

 

[David E]

There is a draw technique I've developed that solves that very issue.

 

[mavracer]

There is a draw technique I've developed that solves that very issue.

by all means share?

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I carry a S&W 442. I have other combat style pistols, however I would rarely actually carry them. The work and change in lifestyle required for me to carry my larger higher capacity pistols seemed like a strange trade off.I would grab it under unique circumstances but rarely carried it on a day to day basis. I recently picked up my 442, I believe it is the perfect carry sidearm for my life. I have .38's. If I knew somebody was to be shooting at me I would rather have 13 .40s, or better yet 30 .308s. However, I believe 5 .38s would handle any problem I am likely to come across. When I do have a need to go to an undesired place late at night, I will be sure to grab my sig and cz.

I keep my 442 in my pocket, I can grab it and have it ready to go in roughly a tenth of a secound longer than I could grab a full size hand gun from a side holster. It has also been very challenging and fun learning to master the tiny little DOA gun. The point is I can shoot it consistantly and good enough for any problem I believe I may encounter.

 

[camsdaddy]

Ive been known to carry appendix and pocket and feel confident in both. I also live in South Ga. I would say that if I see someone wearing a "hunting or photographers vest" I first look for a former president. I figure if you are gonna wear a vest you might as well open carry. To each his own. This time of year more than a t shirt and shorts is unbearable some days. I can carry a 642, CM9 or sometimes a 26 in a pocket of most shorts. I find I walk with hands in pocket most the time cant get much closer to the draw

 

[David E]

At the range tomorrow, I'm going to set up an IPSC target at 5 feet, to split the difference between ten feet and engaged hand to hand.

I'll do hands at sides, wrists above shoulders, while stepping left and right, hand on gun and a few other things.

The belt mounted gun will be done similarly.

Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[Guillermo]

There is a draw technique I've developed that solves that very issue

give it up David!!

 

[hardluk1]

I have a IWB holster and use it under certain conditions. Travel or dressing up, but it is not faster or as fast unless i am also useing both hands and if tucked in ,,for get it. I need both hands to help get to it affectivly. Now it may depend on the size of the handgun and the pocket cut as to what works best or at all for you. I am a work jean or columbia pants guy .

I also don't carry the micro sized pistol some use as pocket guns. For me they can get lost even in a holster in my pockets. On the larger end for my pockets I can carry a cw9 kahr Or pf9 KT but my everday carry is a cm9. The grips on all set right near the top of the pocket and very easy with the right holster to access and clear along with a 2" j frame sized revolver with a 3 finger grip. Only one hand if needed and I can clear in a normal set down setting like in a restraunt pulling it out to show the grip with 2 fingers and then take a full grip one handed. Now if a carried something larger it would then be IWB only. In the car I will clear the grip area from my pocket or if travel'n a cheapy iwb at an appendix position or on the belt with something over it, remember concealed. I figure if i ever need my handgun I also may only have one hand to do it with while useing the other to fend someone off for just moment.

After 24 year i don't need someone telling me to change it don't work.

 

[David E]

Who is telling you to change or that it doesn't work?