Point shooting...4 hour syllabus

[okjoe]

Won't use up your time and space with discussing or arguing about P&S.

For guntest info+ on P&S check out http://www.pointshooting.com/guntests.htm

And here is a URL to an article I have just put in final draft form about an inherent and fatal flaw in teaching Sight Shooting for use in CQB:
http://www.pointshooting.com/fatal.htm

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Brownie....I believe the QK method by Lucky McDaniels was being taught to US troops during the late 1960's.
Was taught with sighltess daisy air rifles and small airborne discs.
Applegate mentions this in the latest edition of his book.
Glad to see that point shooting worked for you when it counted.
Hello OKJoe.
I believe that I have finally surpassed your record of being banned by forums.

 

[zahc]

From Okjoe's article (which i agree with):

If three out of four police officers do not, or can not use Sight Shooting in real life or death armed encounters, what is the chance that your average home defender will be able to use Sight Shooting in a real life and death close quarters encounter.

MUST HAVE Question mark!

My eyes...

 

[Matthew Temkin]

OKjoe's solution is to point shoot by pulling the trigger with the middle finger.
He also markets a device which bolts onto the handgun to make this technique more "pratical"
I know of no one who advocates point shooting this way.
Nor do I feel such a radical approach is necessary.
This is where many find fault with OKjoe.

 

[horge]

okjoe, I have to second the protest:
That entire site deserves a less eye-straining color palette.

 

[Rob Pincus]

"Combat Focus" Shooting Course

For those of you interested, we teach an intensive two day instinctive shooting course titled "Combat Focus Shooting" at The Valhalla Training Center.

It is based on the natural human reaction to a lethal threat, the facts about distances, light and movement during "typical" gun-fights and years of experience in observing and studying what people do during real or reality based (ie- progressive training/force-on-force) situations.

I accepted a long time ago that instinctive shooting is the most important functional fundamental (ie- after saftey, legal and moral concerns) for anyone carrying a gun for self-defense to understand.

www.valhallatraining.com

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Excellent website!!!
Your location would make an trip there in itself worthwhile.
How come I have never seen you gents advertise in the gun mags?

 

[Rob Pincus]

Thanks Matt. VTC is a new training facility, our first "open to the public season" begins in mid-March of 2004. We were recently featured in SWAT Mag and will be advertising in SWAT, American Handgunnner, Guns and several other magazines starting with the first issues that hit the shelves in 2004.

If you're interested in a course this spring, let me know via email.

 

[brownie0486]

Matthew Temkin:

Yes, Lucky McDaniels QK was adopted by the USArmy in the 70's after they found it worked effectively in reactive shooting under stress.

Hit probability increased enormously. They used/adopted the QK with long arms
but as most are not issued pistols, the sidearm QK never made it into the program.

Lucky trained us on bbguns for ariel targets as well as stationary [ ground level ] ones.

It was the pistols QK that was most important to me and which was developed with the guidance of Lucky in a one on one setting. To be trained by the master himself has been a highlight of the training ovver the years. The technique works and has saved the bacon on ocassion.

I traveled 1500 miles to be in front of the man in 82 at a cost in the thousands [ at that time ], when good training could be had for a few hundred.

It was money well spent.

Brownie

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Brownie...can you elaborate on lucky's pistol techniques for QK?
I believe it was being taught at the old Sionics school under Col Werbell.
Was it similiar in nature to Applegate's approach?

 

[brownie0486]

Matthew Temkin:

Thats correct, it's where I was exposed to it as well.

It's not similiar Applegates approach in that the stance and the height at which the gun is drawn to are different. No one stance needs to be learned or used exclusively in QK.

Brownie

 

[roo_ster]

PS & Aimed Fire

Learned to PS a few years back. Remarkably quick to pick up & easy to get COM hits. A gun that points naturally to COM makes it much easier, but can be done with other less PS-friendly pieces. My best weapon for PS...the lowly, much maligned AMT .45BU. Good to 15m for COM. Good thing, too, since it doesn't have any sights to speak of.

PS is another (useful) technique to keep in the ol' kit bag, like knowing how to shoot with a light or what your pistol round's trajectory (out of YOUR pistol) is at 25, 50, 75, & 100 yds. Use it where it makes sense, use Cooper's "Flash Picture" where it makes sense. It is not to be shunned or dismissed out of hand.

Do a bit of dry fire before heading to the range. I always do some dry-fire PS drills before practicing PS with live rounds. I bet one of those laser grips would make PS training even faster and convince skeptics right quick.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Amen and Happy New Year to that, good buddy!!!
Many are now accepting point shooting as a complement to other important techniques, but are useing other terms.
Hard focus/soft focus come to mind, as well as the, "See what you need to see" mantra.
Whatever.
As long as it is being reaccepted, I could care less what name it is now given.

 

[Paul Gomez]

If anyone is interested, Joe Green, of American Combatives, is teaching a 2day class at the end of February. One day is the American Combatives version of WWII combatives and the second day is Applegate style point shooting. Green was certified at Hocking College in Applegate's methods.
The class is in Marshall, Texas.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Col. Applegate worked very closely with Hocking College, and anyone certified from there knows his stuff.
This is a good chance to actualy learn the system, as opposed to these endless internet debates....