My Point Shooting Video

[Matthew Temkin]

When I was first taught to step into a punch I thought it was crazy. Then I went through the training, and learned uses, the proper techniques to perform the task and counter strikes. Then i put it in action and it worked.
Exactly.
As many others have pointed out, it is a fight.
And as with unarmed combat, gun fighting usually takes place at similar distances.
And fights are won with violent, offensive action which will always give the attacker the edge, regardless of size or skill differences.
Naturally if the distance is greater, or if cover is available/possible, then longer range tactics should be employed.
Remember, it is not point VS. aimed fire, but point AND aimed fire.

 

[Ryder]

Nice video. That's how I kill in the woods but four legged critters don't shoot back and they don't get trials. For self-defense against armed assailants I practice shooting while backing up rather than advancing. I have several reasons for that.

One being that I am shooting as I raise the gun line of sight. At the point where your arm is locked and you fire your first shot I already have as many shots in the target as you shot in your drill.

Another is the fact that distance makes shot placement less accurate. From experience I am not worried about my shots getting the job done but their shots landing on me is a fair consideration.

Distance opens up the possibility of using things for cover and I don't want to be sprayed with their blood.

I've not actually had my life threatened at more than 2 steps away. If I took one step forward they could grab the gun. If the BG takes one step forward I can be prevented from unholstering.

I have some concern about defending myself at trial where witness testimony states I was advancing aggressively rather than retreating (defending myself from aggression). These witnesses are not likely know I was threatened. The badguys I have experience with did a good job of keeping that from becoming public knowledge.

Your technique does "stop things" in the most efficient manner, no doubt about that. Useful technique in hunting and war... Just not so much on video at the corner gas station if you value your freedom as much as your life.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Ryder, you are seeing a 5 minute clip of a 75 minute film.
5 minutes, may I add, of the most basic portion
I also show shooting while backing up and well as moving off line via In Quartata.
As well as zippering the guy from belly to the head from both a ready position and the holster via Elbow Up/Elbow down and from retention.
As well as fast and accurate hip shooting.
As well as advancing at a 45 degree angle from both right and left sides.
As well as combining hand to hand/muzzle strikes in conjunction with close range shooting.
As well as some basic grappling concepts as applicable to the armed citizen.
There is also a lot of explaining the hows and whys of the system.
As from a legal standpoint, I hardly think that advancing in at close range would be the deciding factor if a shoot is good or not.
In my 20 years experience working in the NYC criminal courts I have never seen or heard of a technique as a grounds of prosecution.
Never.

Your technique does "stop things" in the most efficient manner, no doubt about that

Thank you--isn't that the true goal of a gun fighting system?

 

[Oyeboten]

Of course, in riding Motorcycle, in moments of urgent decision, one tends to end up heading where one's eyes are looking, hence: look to where you wish to go, and never look at where you do not wish to go, when in exigency.


I have imagined a similiar instinctual fidelity applies to one's shots, in urgent defensive shooting situations.


Shooting from the hip, Gun close to one's waist, or, arm extended however much if room allows - one's innate Body 'wisdom', can direct the shots quite well to 'where' one's eyes are looking.


Granted, we have only 5 minutes of a much longer and varied Video.

Though for me, the info/method/reasons, explicit and implicit, are a good fit.

 

[Cornbred]

:banghead:

I have some concern about defending myself at trial where witness testimony states I was advancing aggressively rather than retreating

Does your state have a duty to retreat law? Even if it did, I bet that there are some exclusions to it as well.

I guess failure drills are out witness testimony might state that you executed him by shooting him in the head. Hollow points are out too because the only reason a person needs those rounds is to kill. He wasn't carrying a gun to protect himself he wanted to kill someone. Heck guns are out because the only reason to have a gun is to kill.

From experience I am not worried about my shots getting the job done but their shots landing on me is a fair consideration.

to me that sounds very close to wreckless discharge of a fire arm. Witness testimony states the man was firing wildly at the other guy as he ran away. I heard bullets wiz past my head I thought I was going to die.

If you allow the possibility that you are going to have to defend yourself in court dictate what you train your not going to be able to use anysort of self defense. There is some lawyer out there that is would go after you no matter what. I doubt that there is any shooting situation that you can think of that could not be questioned in a court of law. Training, all kinds of training is what allows you to be able to defend yourself in a court of law.

My point in this little rant is that not every situation is going to fit in the same box everytime. THere are different was to handle the same situation, sometimes the situations may dictate certain actions. Train for as much as you can and hope to never have to use any of it.

 

[Japle]

Seems like every couple of days somebody comes up with a new way to teach point shooting.

Each "new" method is either a rehash of old techniques, something that requires an unrealistic amount of practice or something that's just plain unrealistic.

It gets boring. People must make money running the classes, though.

I do like Mas Ayoob's "Stressfire" technique.

 

[Ryder]

Does your state have a duty to retreat law?

No, it is a "stand your ground" state. I still maintain that if all a jury were to see was someone defending themselves aggressively like that on a video in a public location it would be game over. It is a technique I would only consider using within my own home or out in the woods.

Thanks for the comment Matthew. I wasn't aware it was only part of a more comprehensive video. Nothing wrong with covering all the bases

 

[Matthew Temkin]

No problem but we willl have to agree to disagree on the legal liabilities of advancing on a threat.
Then again, point shooting will still work when moving in other directions, which is the main theme of my DVD.
Meaning that point shooting is a concept that blends in with any shooting style/stance/position.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Mr. Temkin, I have a question.

At 4:17 you seem to be moving in between the assailants.

Why not swiftly move in an angular motion to the outside of either assailant, so that both will be in your line of fire simultaneously?
Even if you can't get to the outside, it would seem this would close up the angle between each shot.


Other than that, great video.

 

[craneman]

I have watched the video and read throught the posts, and back and forth banter. Some things I do agree with and other things I do not. I believe, in a close defensive encounter the speed of things happening, and lack of time to make decisions (right or wrong) could be such that pure reaction will determine the outcome. More than likely, time to survey your suroundings for cover, escape route, etc...will be split-second at best. I believe practice of "shooting a target without the use of sights" is something that should be practiced intensly. Maybe it is just to be so familiar, and comfortable with the firearm that you can instinctively hit a target without thought of where the muzzle is pointed. Practised to the point that it takes really no concious thought. There certainly may not be time to gain a sight picture. I also feel the need to get rounds on target (anywhere on target) as SOON as possible, and that means pulling the trigger when the weapon is first drawn and will likely be very low in a close quarters scenario. I have been practicing this type of shooting long before there was internet. Mostly because I found it to be challenging and downright fun to do. Never a thought that I might need it for self defence. I can certainly see where this could be a beneficial skill. I certainly question moving toward an armed assailent. I doubt human nature is going to allow this in a time of high stress and survival mode. I practice sideways movement as well as minimising my profile as a target. Think thin and low. This seems to me to be more of a natural reaction, and more likely to do if the need ever arose. Hopefully it never will. Don't get me wrong though. I certainly do believe that carefull, aimed fire will be more effective...provided time will allow it. Just my $.02.

 

[duns]

I didn't read the long text but I did watch the short video. Moving in to the two bad guys looks great if they are unarmed and not shooting back. Where they are trying to shoot you, it seems to me to be the wrong thing to do.

 

[devildog32713]

Thanks for all the wonderful information..

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Thanks gents.
The video shows some--but not all-- possibilities.
The important thing is that point shooting will work with all of the other options that have been mentioned.
In other words, use/do whatever it takes.
"Why not swiftly move in an angular motion to the outside of either assailant, so that both will be in your line of fire simultaneously?
Even if you can't get to the outside, it would seem this would close up the angle between each shot."
That is another excellent tactic, especially if you kill one bad guy and then use his body as cover against the other(s)
That is a tactic that I learned from some retired Russian agents a few years back.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Moving in to the two bad guys looks great if they are unarmed and not shooting back. Where they are trying to shoot you, it seems to me to be the wrong thing to do.
There are other options.
For example--and already stated above-- you can move into one guy and then use his body as a shield to get the other(s)
However I would advise against trying to outdistance/out maneuver multiples if taken by surprise at close range, because they may very well decide to charge you.
Surprise and violence of action are still your best bets in a surprise close range situation.

 

[strambo]

Your technique does "stop things" in the most efficient manner, no doubt about that. Useful technique in hunting and war... Just not so much on video at the corner gas station if you value your freedom as much as your life.

If someone is trying to kill me...in battle or in the grocery store...I am going to eliminate the threat (use force until there is no longer a threat) in the most efficient manner PERIOD! I would never bet my, or my families' life on back-peddling just to maybe appease a jury unless I thought that was the most effective thing to do at the time in order to stop the threat.

Shooting while moving forward, laterally, obliquely and backwards...is useful to practice.

Dumping a couple rounds in him at 2 arms length while aggressively closing then muzzle punching his throat is pretty darn effective too. Talk about messing with his OODA loop! Way more than just moving sideways will. Ever done force on force training where someone charged you shooting? I have, they almost always freeze...and that's when they know its coming. Either way, I am to and through them in a couple seconds.

Anyway, lots of closed minded reactions for no reason IMO, esp. on the moving in issue. Take the fight to the deadly threat until they stop being a threat via the most effective method available to you in that situation. If it's "NIKE" defense, great. If that means charging-shooting or clubbing them with a big rock, do it.

 

[The Tennessean]

I don't know fellas. I think there could be a time or situation when moving forward might be a good idea. It might be the only way out of the hole you've found yourself in.

I agree. If I'm somehow backed into a corner I will have to advance in the direction of the bad guys to get out of it. The alternative is to stay in the corner and maybe die. I think of a boxer who is closed into the corner of the ring and the other guy is whaling on him. The boxer has to advance and fight his way out, taking hits possibly as he goes but if he stays in the corner, he's basically out of the fight and won't last.

Sometimes the only way to go is forward.

 

[The Tennessean]

Also, great video.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Thanks gents.
"Dumping a couple rounds in him at 2 arms length while aggressively closing then muzzle punching his throat is pretty darn effective too. Talk about messing with his OODA loop!"
You are so correct, Strambo.
In my classes I pick one student, give him an airsoft gun and then suddenly charge in with a red gun, screaming, cursing and spitting all the way, followed by a (pulled) muzzle strike to his throat.
I have yet to have anyone even attempt to fire a shot.
As to the clip--it is just 5 minutes of a 75 minute DVD.
I was not the one to post it ( it was the producer) and I would have probably picked a different segment to better represent the DVD.
The clip is from the first part of the video, which explains the basic concepts of fully extended one and two handed point shooting.
I use this in my classes to keep seasoned shooters in their comfort zone while absorbing the point shooting concept--as well illustrating the speed and accuracy point shooting provides with minimal training/practice.
Actually the first part of my classes--and the DVD--is to show the limitations of fully extended shooting, be it with one or two hands.
The second part deals with the closer range methods, such as hip shooting, 3/4 hip, retention shooting, quick draw into hip shooting/zippering (which gets the muzzle on the bad guy within a heartbeat) and using unarmed combat in conjunction with shooting.
"Shooting while moving forward, laterally, obliquely and backwards...is useful to practice."
True enough, and the DVD includes a drill--In Quartata--which shows a simple way to practice those exact things.