Police Beating in New Orleans Caught on Tape #2 Constructive Criticism ONLY

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lol

what royal FUP.
they totally picked the wrong guy to whale (wale?) on.

i really respect cops. i really do. i don't want to contribute to "us vs. them".

but given history, katrina, and this recent turn of events... i am not going to be trusting cops so much in the future. like another poster said, i'll treat them like family, but with my wits about me.
 
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Take all of the stress you've ever felt from bills, a nagging spouse, a malfunctioning vehicle, walking a dark street at night, etc.......THEN.......couple it with inept administrators, marginal politicians, a spiteful unappreciative public, thousands of laws, ordinances, and general orders that govern your daily activities, and people who actively want to kill you simply because you wear a uniform, and maybe, just maybe, you will get close to what it is like to be an LEO.

Many of us have never been LEO's - true - but many of us have been in the military and I think many military jobs offer a pretty good amount of stress. Guess what? If I beat the snot out of someone and got caught, I went to see the Man. Period. Bad day, or not.

If have met a lot of LEO's in my day - and many of them were respectful, courteous, and polite. So, it can be done.

I even had a run in with the Carabinari in Naples in 1993. Myself and several others were drunk and lost. Really lost. We were not causing trouble, but were having a good time. The Carabinari guys helped point us in the right direction to get back to the ship. We were foreigners, a bit of a pain in the butt, but the guys kept their cool and helped us out, and later on we appreciated it. These guys could have beat the crap out of us, and didn't. And they would have gotten away with it.

The point is that with power comes responsibility. When you are in a position of power and authority you HAVE to be held to a higher standard of conduct than the average citizen. Otherwise, all that seperates you from the average Joe is the badge and the gun.
 
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Take all of the stress you've ever felt from bills, a nagging spouse, a malfunctioning vehicle, walking a dark street at night, etc.......THEN.......couple it with inept administrators, marginal politicians, a spiteful unappreciative public, thousands of laws, ordinances, and general orders that govern your daily activities, and people who actively want to kill you simply because you wear a uniform, and maybe, just maybe, you will get close to what it is like to be an LEO.
Whoop de do. That sounds like a good day on my job.
If you can't handle your job, leave it.

This is the same kind of logic that thugs use when they say "Mama didn't love me so I had to turn to crime." A man is responsible for his actions. Period. Anything less is a disgrace to your profession and your manhood.
 
Apparently I don't know anything about stress according to M-Rex. Even though I am retired military, have been deployed all over the world in less than vacation like circumstances, to include 2 wars, and even recieved the purple heart. But...I guess I just don't know what REAL stress is...PA-lease. Bottom line, I don't have the time of day to listen to that type of excuse and that type of whining.
Many of us have never been LEO's - true - but many of us have been in the military and I think many military jobs offer a pretty good amount of stress. Guess what? If I beat the snot out of someone and got caught, I went to see the Man. Period. Bad day, or not.

First and foremost, thank you for your service. You are most assuredly not the type of person I am talking about. Mea culpa for not making that more clear. Obviously you have a paradigm on the world that most folks do not have.

However, it is interesting. You don't have the 'time of day to listen to that type of excuse and that type of whining' but you had the time to work up a post. Ok. :scrutiny:

Be that as it may, don't you worry, not one little bit. I have no doubt the officer who shoved the hapless AP reporter will be disciplined. He crossed the line and is most definitely deserving the label of JBT. The officers who rolled around with the elderly man will be as well, if the are found guilty of wrongdoing.
The point is that with power comes responsibility. When you are in a position of power and authority you HAVE to be held to a higher standard of conduct than the average citizen. Otherwise, all that seperates you from the average Joe is the badge and the gun.
+1 This is exactly my point.
 
I have the time of day to work up a post simply because lessons have to be learned and messages have to be sent (not talking about posting on a BBS/Forum). Whining and excuses do nothing in this regard.

Everyone has something to learn from this incident. Police, media, adminstraters, non-police, etc. As noted, I feel the key here (lesson or message) is that an armed man..a police officer...felt that it was within his legal authority to physically assault a journalist in an attempt to get the journalist to stop the recording of the event. Not only is that a whole series of felony actions but is an indication of the mentality of at least those LEO's on the scene. And this is a dangerous mentality or thought process to the rights and freedoms of the average U.S. Citizen.
 
This is not sarcasm or a joke, just an honest question. If you feel that is what the job is like, why do you do it?

There are things that come with the responsibility of pinning on a badge. One has to deal with the bad as well as the good. I personally believe that there are parallels in law enforcement and the armed forces. Certain people gravitate to each pursuit; one primarily being the 'protector', the other being the 'warrior'. A 'calling', if you will.

Occasionally, the wrong sorts of people enter into each profession. Unfortunately, these folks tend to screw up in the most visible way possible and cast a shadow on the rest of the people who perform their duties admirally every day. I don't deny this.

What galls me to no end is the general public's (bear with me for a moment) near-orgasmic reaction whenever a law enforcement officer (or member of the armed forces) goes sideways and oversteps his/her authority (read that as royally screws the pooch). One officer beats up a citizen, then all cops are jack booted thugs. One soldier fraggs his Captain with a grenade, then all soldiers are loose cannons waiting to go off. Thus the divide between citizens and law enforcement grows wider and wider.

I expected more from 'High Road' folks.
 
As noted, I feel the key here (lesson or message) is that an armed man..a police officer...felt that it was within his legal authority to physically assault a journalist in an attempt to get the journalist to stop the recording of the event. Not only is that a whole series of felony actions but is an indication of the mentality of at least those LEO's on the scene. And this is a dangerous mentality or thought process to the rights and freedoms of the average U.S. Citizen.

I agree...to a point. The only one who knows the mind of that officer is that officer. It most certainly was not within his legal authority to do what he did to the AP reporter. I personally believe the officer was a dumbass (please pardon the vernacular) and he deserves whatever discipline he gets. Because of him, all of the honorable LEO's doing their jobs now have a harder time dealing with the public at large. As to the minds of the other officers who were wrestling with the elderly man, who knows? All that has been publicized is a few seconds of video. Note: I am not excusing their actions, if they are found to be excessive.

What I find very disturbing is the powder keg of hostility that flares up every time one of these scenes plays out in the media. It's almost as if people want these incidents to happen so they will be justified in their hatred of authority.
 
What galls me to no end is the general public's (bear with me for a moment) near-orgasmic reaction whenever a law enforcement officer (or member of the armed forces) goes sideways and oversteps his/her authority (read that as royally screws the pooch). One officer beats up a citizen, then all cops are jack booted thugs. One soldier fraggs his Captain with a grenade, then all soldiers are loose cannons waiting to go off. Thus the divide between citizens and law enforcement grows wider and wider.

Goes sideways and oversteps his authority? How about brutally beats a man unconscious for asking a simple question concerning a curfew?

No, all officers are not jack booted thugs, but those who defend and make excuses for these kind of criminal acts have chosen the side they wish to occupy. Here's a clue.......that side is NOT law and order. :banghead:
 
but given history, katrina, and this recent turn of events... i am not going to be trusting cops so much in the future. like another poster said, i'll treat them like family, but with my wits about me.

Silverlance, I can understand your frustration. I truly do. However, if you are "not going to be trusting cops so much in the future", then you are making a conscious and deliberate decision to do so. Those N.O. officers have no more to do with the officers in your state than a bug fluttering its wings in N.O. causes a storm in Canada.
 
Goes sideways and oversteps his authority? How about brutally beats a man unconscious for asking a simple question concerning a curfew?

No, all officers are not jack booted thugs, but those who defend and make excuses for these kind of criminal acts have chosen the side they wish to occupy. Here's a clue.......that side is NOT law and order.

Um...ok. :confused:
Why are you looking for a fight? Are we not in agreement?
 
Since you think I'm looking for a fight, I hope I don't meet up with you on Bourbon Street while I'm trying to find out the curfew time.
That's my point.
 
Actually, I think that M-Rex is being reasonable and open-minded. I don't 100% agree with him, but I think that his heart is in the right place. Maybe we could give him a break and do a little back and forth?
JMO...
Biker
 
Mind set of the officer is clear by his actions.

Note: I have avoided making serious comments regarding the actions by the LEO's upon/against/with/to the 64 year old man. My comments are regarding an armed LEO assualting an AP reporter recroding the event. I feel that this is the key. It may be possible that there is something we didn't see before the recording started in regards to the 64 year old man. However, a felony attack on journalists recording the event in an attempt to get them to stop recording the event are criminal acts. Plain and simple. Criminal acts. They are not a simple case of "over stepping bounds" and no amount of "administrative" discipline is acceptable. Criminal acts require criminal prosectution..period. This is also a clear indication that these LEO's did not want the event recorded...why? This is a clear indication that these LEO's believe that they do in fact have the legal authority to attack non-police personnel...why? Combine this with the overwhelming support of the LEO's actions including the attack on the AP journalist at the Law Enforcement related forums as being justified. Further combine this with a constant stream of excessive force incidents regularly being recorded and reported all over the U.S. and you do not have an isolated incident. You have a systemic problem. A problem that threatens life..liberty..
 
I appreciate the thoughtful reply M-rex. For what it's worth, I think what upsets most folks isn't the officers in a particular incident, it's the automatic defence by some other officers. When a soldier frags an officer, other soldiers don't deflect critisizim by talking about how tough it is to be a soldier.

Thanks again, Griz
 
Wait...clarify. You keep saying 'felony'. Is this a felony in Louisiana? When I look up 242 PC here in California, what happend on the video (to the AP reporter) is a misdemeanor. It's only a felony here if there is "serious
bodily injury is inflicted on the person".

Have there been any reports that the AP reporter sustained a serious injury?
 
I appreciate the thoughtful reply M-rex. For what it's worth, I think what upsets most folks isn't the officers in a particular incident, it's the automatic defence by some other officers. When a soldier frags an officer, other soldiers don't deflect critisizim by talking about how tough it is to be a soldier.

Yes, I can understand that. Those same officers engaging in the automatic defense, don't know anything more about the incident than anyone else. They saw the same video.
 
M-Rex,

I had a long drawn out response to your posts. I realized, however, that you are one of "them" and you will never change your position becasue of that. My words would have been a waste. Take that for what ever you want, good, bad, or indifferent. I will leave it with my last few paragraphs which you and a whole lot of others should read.

For the appologists on here, perception is reality for those who perceive it. In other words, if the majority of society has come to perceive the police as corrupt JBTs, then the police are in fact corrupt JBTs, whether they are or not in your perception. A lot of people, I believe a majority, have had a change of heart about law enforcement in general. Whether you believe this is fair or justified is not relevant. It remains that it is our reality. This change was brought about by various actions of law enforcement to which we reacted with a negative perception of law enforcement officers to one degree or another. The mere fact that so many people feel this way should be a clue that not all is rosy in your profession. The degree to which this negative perception has grown varies from simple distrust, which is very widespread IMO, to full blown "hate cops wouldn't call 911 to save them if they were all dying". I don't think the latter is widespread and admittedly to go that far there are probably other issues at work as well like mental illness. Like I said though, go ask any number of people the simple question "do you trust cops?" and the answer will most often be "no". We are not "cop haters". We are simply responding to our perception of what we see.

I realize most of what I have written is lost on the apologists. You who are apologists won't like this and will likely respond with the usual barage of attacks. Oh well. FWIW I recognize that law enforcement is both a necessary and difficult function in our society. I really wish things would improve. As I have said on numerous occasions before, the onus is on the police to improve society's pereption of them. We, the general public, will not simply wake up one day and forget what we have seen, heard, and experienced. It's going to take a lot of hard work and positive community relations. You can scream "cop hater" till you are blue in the face and it won't change a thing.

For those who really care about what could be done to improve things, which is probably not many, I'll list my opinions again about what law enforcement can do to fix this rift between "them and us". For starters get ahold of your unions. When someone commits a crime, like assaulting an AP reporter, it is not a labor relation issue. It's a criminal issue. Criminals should not be in law enforcement. Sending the union talking heads out in front of the cameras to defend them makes you all look bad. When you defend the indefensible you yourself become indefensible. Your unions political positions on things like gun control also hurt you badly. We stood united to fight for your 50 state CCW rights, where are your union leaders in our time of need? DO use your unions to stop your being used as political pawns and revenue generators. Do the right thing. I know, it really is harder than it looks. In this instance here several federal LEO's watched a NOPD officer assault a reporter with zero justifcation. An arrest should have been made on the spot. In another thread officers driving recklessly were only stopped after numerous 911 calls. How many patrol cars were passed that simply looked at the spectacle of lights and looked the other way?

The list goes on, but you get the drift. Give us a reason to change our perception and we will. We really want to. Until then things will only get worse. One day it will devolve in to something horrific I'm afraid, and that will truly be a bad day for our country.

I.C.
 
You've got it Griz. It isn't the assorted actions that would get you or I locked up, it is the "oh well, you just wouldn't understand" responses that appear no matter what the story is. (this isn't directed just at you M-Rex, I do partially understand where you are coming from knowing a couple of LEOs that I talk with off duty every week (in a relaxed situation) as our kids are in Cub Scouts together).

Most people here expect the media to get the story wrong out of the box (fairly justifiably from what I've seen). Yet when the story develops to where the accused might have been in the right to begin with & the journalists actually got it right, the thin blue line circles the wagons & attacks those pointing out the inconsistencies.

Do I believe the citizen in this case? Yes for a couple of reasons. First is the lack of public announcement from the authorities in the area that he was drunk/drug impaired. As was stated by quite a few people here, when someone goes to the hospital under police guard, their blood is tested for alcohol/drugs. If the police were correct that he was drunk/high it would have been trumpeted by every agency involved. The silence is deafening. Second, the one officer trying to place his horse between the event & the camera. Granted an animal could have moved on his own but in light of everything else that was going on it was damning. Which leads up to the third point. There have been many posts here by LEOs singing the praises of dash cameras as they completely demolish claims by those who have done wrong that the cops were the ones in the wrong. For the NO cops to attack a journalist says to me that they KNEW that they were in the wrong & wanted to get rid of the evidence.

Like it or not, the police SHOULD be held to a higher standard as a bad apple in their barrel can ruin lives. It is when the good apples justify/marginalize the bad apples that the "us vs them" really shows up & says to many that the good ones may quite well be tainted too.
 
Greg and Calm I totally agree with everything you have said in the last two post. Your post said things in a calm manner which I can not do when things like this come up as my blood boils when I continually see these things.
Thank you for talking for many of us.
Jon
 
Greg,

Yes! I agree. As far as the officers wrestling with the old man, who knows? I do know that at the department I worked at, we were never trained to hit anyone with closed fists. However, on the other side of that coin, we were trained to use various specific strikes to gain compliance. In my opinion, their actions appeared to be beyond what could be considered necessary. However, once again, I have wrestled with enough drunks to realize how difficult it is, also. And, the video was obviously edited to present the most dramatic moment for the media. If they are found to have exceeded their departments level of force requirement, they'll be disciplined. I have no doubt about it.

As far as the officer accosting the AP reporter, I've already stated that I believe he crossed a line that should not have been crossed. Did they all get together ahead of time and plan this out? Who knows? Did he simply lose his temper? Maybe. Am I an 'apologist', or justifying their actions? Certainly not.

But apparently, to some who frequent this board, what one does, all do. How openminded? Broad brush generalizations are just another form of bigotry.
 
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