police have to fire my gun?

[Gun Fever]

So i just bought a beretta m9 the other day and shop owner said that beretta does not send a spent shell with their guns. (in n.y. and a few other states you have to submit the empty shell to police for records or so i hear) So now I have wait for the cops to shoot my gun gun for me before i can take it home. So for all you people living in anti gun states have you ever heard of beretta not shipping the empty shell with their guns????

 

[BigN]

Here in NY, at least this particular county, the state police have to shoot the weapon themselves, and keep the brass, they won't let you do it. I had to wait an extra week after my 44 was there already in order for the police to have time to go to the lgs and shoot it.

 

[jawn]

In MD we have a similar requirement, but the MD police allow certain FFLs (I believe it's those with Class II manufacturing licenses) to do the casing if the manufacturer didn't ship one.

I think it's particularly odd that your Beretta didn't come with one - they manufacture some of their guns in MD and the PX4 is the standard sidearm of MDSP; you'd think they'd know that certain states require it.

 

[caverkevin]

Noticed the spent casing with the last couple pistols I've acquired. Was wondering what they were for. Figured there was some sort of Draconian reason behind it.

 

[SDC]

They probably realized that there is no way to ensure that the cases supplied with a given firearm were, in fact, actually fired in THAT firearm; AFTE ran a test a few years ago where they took 15 brand-new pistols delivered to a police agency (supplied with 2 test-fired cases each), and in 12 out of those 15, ONE or BOTH of the cases weren't even fired in the gun they were shipped with.

 

[jawn]

@SDC - the casing ID program actually has yet to provide substantial support in getting a conviction here in MD. Millions of tax payer dollars, no convictions.

 

[Ally]

May I very naively ask what the purpose of sending casings with a new gun is? I had 2 of them in an envelope hand signed by the technician that fired them in the gun case.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I'm kinda wondering how a spent casing would help a crime.

 

[avs11054]

Thank god I live in AZ

 

[General Geoff]

May I very naively ask what the purpose of sending casings with a new gun is?

For "ballistic fingerprinting" in those states which waste millions of dollars cataloguing characteristics of cartridge casings fired from handguns which can just as easily change with age, rust, or even just use (high round count gradually changes the chamber walls of a given barrel). Not to mention barrels aren't regulated and it's as simple as ordering a spare barrel off the internet to have a completely different casing "fingerprint" from that of the original barrel.

In other words, the purpose is to waste time and money.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I can understand the logic behind this with autos because they eject the brass at the scene of the crime but with REVOLVERS?

 

[sig220mw]

General Geoff said it all in his last statement.

 

[FROGO207]

This makes about as much sense as plaster casting the tire tracks and grill imprint in case the vehicle is involved in a hit and run MVA.:banghead: At least they are using the $$$ to enforce the stupid laws instead of trying to invent new ones.

 

[joeq]

My pistols have all come with spent rounds. I had no idea some states actually made you hand them over. I am even happier I'm a Texan after hearing this.

 

[hirundo82]

They probably realized that there is no way to ensure that the cases supplied with a given firearm were, in fact, actually fired in THAT firearm; AFTE ran a test a few years ago where they took 15 brand-new pistols delivered to a police agency (supplied with 2 test-fired cases each), and in 12 out of those 15, ONE or BOTH of the cases weren't even fired in the gun they were shipped with.

In that case, my first thought would be the ATF messed up rather than the lab. First of all, police forensic techniques are imprecise--virtually no forensic techniques (with the exception of DNA) are proven to the standards of scientific evidence. Second, the ATF lab has a history of manipulating evidence to get the results they want.

 

[Tennessee Ned]

I noticed some with one of my pistols and figured that they were just in there to show that the pistol had been test fired for quality control purposes.

 

[bigfatdave]

I'm kinda wondering how a spent casing would help a crime.

The criminal scatters a handful of range pickup brass as they walk away with the revolver, obviously!
Scatter 9x19/9x18/9x17 around if using a .357/.38 revolver, sub .45acp out if using a .44spl/mag revolver, toss .32acp/7.62x25/.30carbine if using a Nagant revolver.

Or if you want to know how a spent casing would help solve a crime ... the answer is that they do it on CSI and thus politicians think it works.

 

[SDC]

No, this test was ran using test-fires supplied by the manufacturer (as was the norm at that time); the pistols were fired at the factory, boxed up with the cases that were ostensibly fired in those pistols, and sent to the PD that had purchased them, just as if they had been sent to an FFL for retail sale. If nothing else, it showed that the entire fallacy of "fingerprinting" was built on a house of cards, because it depended on info that couldn't be confirmed. Where the "fingerprinting" technology DOES have a valid use is in relating crime scenes to one another, or in relating a seized crime gun to previously-unsolved shootings.

 

[tazbigdog]

Glad I'm in Texas!

 

[Black Butte]

Guns are no longer shipping in unfired condition, thanks to the government, and all they've accomplished is to force people to pay new prices for used merchandise.

 

[ghostwriter]

so they send the feds the empty fired cases?... not the bullets. I suppose only the firing pin imprint on the primer would be useable huh?
Thank God for gun shows and cheap barrels to refit your pice with.

 

[grubbylabs]

For those of you who said so, I too am glad you live where you do and not where I do, its crowded enough here.

 

[The-Reaver]

I am sorry for all of you that live in states like that.

 

[Bubbles]

Guns are no longer shipping in unfired condition, thanks to the government, and all they've accomplished is to force people to pay new prices for used merchandise.

Even before the ballistic fingerprinting databases existed guns were usually fired at the factory to make sure that they worked. I still have the test targets for several of mine in the cases.

 

[Dr_B]

The only time a police officer has handled my gun was when one of the local cops wanted to check out the new grips on my Sig.