police have to fire my gun?

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Wow, I never knew this... What happens if you are a smart criminal and pick up your spent shells!

I have seen some forensic files on TV and I understand the bullets having unique fingerprints because of the rifling in the barrels, but can someone explain to me how the brass of a fired shell is unique to that gun?

Sorry if that's a noob question, I'm a noob ;-)
 
you live in the wrong state. I wonder how the new yorker's would react to a law demanding a record of every book you bought.
 
I personally don't believe that there is a sterile lab like in csi where our casings or bulletts are bagged and tagged. Oh you wanted gym's glock the one from 92 or 93 let's see we have 10 glocks for him in 15 years,oh, here it is, sorry the robot took more than 11 seconds, we also have the other 100 pistols he bought over the last half century, we wil just run them through the computer with the other billion we have and see if we get a match, we should have that in about twenty, "twenty minutes you say", my partner and I will go get some coffee" no twenty years you dumb ass.
 
Several years ago I read the MDSP wanted the legislature to change the law as they had spent millions of dollars maintaining this data base and it hadn't helped to solve one crime. They wanted to use the money to catch genuine crooks.
 
You can match a casing to a firearm based on the firing pin-primer strike. However, since it is so easy to swap firing pins it makes it kind of pointless if a criminal knows about it. Plus, I think its a waste of time and money I don't even think CA requires this.
 
Ii can see if they test fire the weapon at the factory for saftey and function, but custody of the shell, bullett, and primer, should either be destroyed therafter or sent to the owner of the pistol. How do I know what they did with the pieces. Makes a nice conspirisey theory.
 
This is what is waiting for all of us if we don't get more involved. Not one single crime has been solved by this system, yet NY state will never get rid of it. I live here. Its eastern Europe all over again.
 
It sounds like a stupid urban legend gun-myth.
No, a stupid urban legend gun-myth would have the same practical usefulness but cost a lot less.
On purely economic grounds, placing an urban myth into State law would make more sense.
 
Balistic fingerprinting is a joke. You don't even have to replace parts to get a "non-match". All you have to do is fire the weapon and normal wear makes its own changes to shape of pin strike, extractor marks and even chamber imperfections. Just some loony politicians way of spending our hard earned money.

And don't get me started on rifling marks on a spent slug. bullet weight, velocity, hardness of the alloy and wear changes that, too.

Balistic fingerprinting? More like balistic voodoo.
 
Um, ballistic fingerprinting is not voodoo, it is science. Yes, wear does occur, but most criminals don't shoot their firearms enough to cause this. There are numerous cases my father has helped close through ballistic fingerprinting.

Please don't doubt me either. I have been to AFTE conferences, my dad is a CSI and I did a science fair project on "bullet matching." You can believe that is just a hoax, but it is not.
 
So...what do they do if one gets an original Henry Rifle or Volcanic? Or, a Gyrojet Pistol?

What do they do for a Muzzle Loader?
 
Big_E said:
Plus, I think its a waste of time and money I don't even think CA requires this.

No California is actually worse, they require every semi-auto gun stamp something like a serial number on every fired casing. The term is micro-stamping, it was voted on and passed into law in California.

The irregular stamping surface increases friction, can slightly reduce reliability, and of course naturally wears away, can be filed off or replaced by any criminal, and normal citizens polishing the gun too much may accidentally remove it themselves. All making it suspicious to over clean the gun or replace broken or worn components with regular normal priced non-stamping parts rather than the special expensive firing pins, chambers, barrels, breeches, bolts, or whatever else is involved in the stamping of a given firearm.
The ease of changing the components could even lead to additional legislation once in place long enough to turn such regular parts into regulated components, like receivers currently are, to close the "loophole".


A technicality involving patents is keeping it from being implemented, but it is the law that any gun added to the California Approved Handgun list needs to stamp every casing with something like a microscopic serial number, passed by the legislator.
It may become a moot point if the approved handgun list itself is overturned in current ongoing legal battles. Requirements to be added to the list won't matter if the list ceases to exist.
 
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Um, ballistic fingerprinting is not voodoo, it is science. Yes, wear does occur, but most criminals don't shoot their firearms enough to cause this. There are numerous cases my father has helped close through ballistic fingerprinting.

Please don't doubt me either. I have been to AFTE conferences, my dad is a CSI and I did a science fair project on "bullet matching." You can believe that is just a hoax, but it is not.

Sorry, you're gonna have to back up this claim with cited facts.

What cases did he help close? Did they end up being plea bargains? I'd wager they were, because any lawyer worth their salt could poke holes through any ballistic matching "evidence" in court.
 
Please people, there is no such thing as a "Ballistic Fingerprint", rather what you are looking at should more properly be called a "Ballistic Snapshot".

The concept behind the human fingerprint is that the ridges and such are a permanent and unique to that one particular person. While age and wear can eliminate them they do not change.

On a firearm the markings that are being measured change each and every time the firearm is discharged. Over a number of discharges the changes will make the markings substantially different and therefore unmatchable to original sample.

Always try to promote proper terminology like snapshot instead of fingerprint. Antigun experts will hate you.
 
Well I don't have the facts in front of me. If you really want me to I can go back to CA and get all the info from numerous crime labs.

Yes, I am aware that lawyers poke at this evidence in a courtroom, that is why my dad comes home from work in a bad mood... :rolleyes:

There is a Forensic Files episode where my dad used a dental compound (name escapes me) to get the lands/grooves out of a barrel that was obscured by a screwdriver, he got the section that was not obscured and was able to match it to the bullet that killed an elderly gentleman and his wife in a home invasion. The barrel was not tampered with before the murder.

Certain groups of scientists already attack it as a ""non-science" just like Psychology is right now. Criminalists are already criticized by lawyers and some scientist groups, they don't need the gun community after them as well.
 
Certain groups of scientists already attack it as a ""non-science" just like Psychology is right now. Criminalists are already criticized by lawyers and some scientist groups, they don't need the gun community after them as well.

It is of paramount importance that ballistic evidence be held the highest scrutiny, because we're talking about people's lives here. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than a single innocent man be jailed.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAlixegkf0o

There is the NRA video on it. Obviously, the system is flawed and whatnot, but examiners have to inspect it themselves. I don't know about the thing about no convictions from the system, I will have to talk to my father about it (it is a little late to call him right now).

Yes I think the national database is wasteful, but I believe the convictions were done on a local level, not using the database. It is very complicated. However, you can see that you are able to match bullets/casings to guns. The technology is still developing.

I would love to debate this with you, maybe tomorrow when I am not busy and can talk to an expert in this field. I am not trying to get into the politics of the situation, just the science that it can and has been done. Heck, my dad even was able to match a Glock bullet, which is much harder to do because of the polygonal rifling.
 
As much as I hate to butt heads with a fellow M.H.I. fan, I maintain my position, backed up by logic, science and legal evidence that balistic fingerprinting is a fools errand and physically impossible.

It is a matter of public record that there have been no convictions based on this "science". I don't know what evidence your Dad collected or examined to aid the prosecution, but it wasn't balistic fingerprinting.
 
I think that if I lived in a state that the police insisted on shooting my new pistol before me, I may put a priority on the BFG in 45-70, and make sure that the ammo I supplied was loaded by Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore, in the 500 gr weight range.
If they want to shoot my gun before I can, they are going to have to want it.
 
I could see Albany requiring that but I'm surprised they bother you guys way up in the DAKS... then again we live in a blue state and the assembly men from NYC get to tell the rest of NY what they can and can't do.
 
This is really scary stuff...Scary how we have let our government get so huge and out of control. However, it is our own fault; we are all to blame a little.
 
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