Police lying? Misinformed? Either way, I'm mad.

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McKnife

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I recently saw this article where some gent allegedly made threats to Obama's name. See here: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/07/breaking-man-held-for-obama-assassination-threat/

You see, the article states that he had possession of "armor-piercing and rifle bullets." The suspect consented to a search of his vehicle (idiot) which lead police to find ONE round of .223, among other gear/equipment seen on affidavit. I figured that the .223 was the 'armor-piercing" piece-of-evil they were referring to.

However, also consenting to a search of his hotel room revealed 40 rounds of Black Talon 9mm. The arresting officer SPECIFICALLY NOTED that Black Talon 9mm is Armor Piercing!:what::confused:

The officer's affidavit is found here:
See bottom of page 2 and top or page 3
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0807081obama1.html
OR
PDF http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/08/07/obama.threat.pdf


It is later 'confirmed' by the officer that armor-piercing ammo is legal to carry in Flordia. See page 3, paragraph 11.


SINCE WHEN have Black Talon's pierced armor???? I guess I'd be in a heap of trouble if Texas po-po found out I was carrying Black Talon ARMOR-PIERCING Super Killer Bullets in .45ACP!!! :neener::barf::banghead:
 
Define "armor". I believe anything short of birdshot will go through level 1. Level 2a is the one that stops everything up to mid power rifle rounds.
 
Haha. When I was arrested, I was also told I had Armor Piercing rounds.

Deputy-"Pistol ammunition with a pointed tip like that, Armor piercing. You know that's illegal in California?"

Me- "Yes, Armor piercing rounds ARE illegal in California, but those aren't armor piercing."

Deputy-"Oh yes they are."

Me-"They're 40 grain, practice load rounds."

Deputy-"Well, we'll see about that."

And so on. QUITE hilarious once I am removed from that situation.
 
Kinda like those magic SKSs that magically turn into automatic assault rifles when certain LEOs get their hands on them. I still have no clue where the myth that hollow points are armor piercing got started. It just doesn't even make sense.
 
Police lie and intimidate as part of their daily routine. Only a fool would trust them.

Once your career advancement and financial standing become tied to the number of arrests you make and tickets you give, the truth matters little.

-T
 
You are incorrect Tyris. Go find you closest ghetto and just hang around from about 11pm-3am. See which side you'll be looking to for help, and which side you're be looking over your shoulder for.

You won't though. It's much more fun to remain indignant and ignorant in the safety of your home.


BTW how's that blanket statement assumption you made workin for ya? Kind of like if I said "THR members are spiteful paranoid anarchists. Only a fool would think they know how the real world works".


You know, in general, it's not even the cop bashing on THR that gets to me. It's the hypocrisy. Whenever there are threads like "I came home from work at night to find my door wide open. What should I do/", the very same people who respond with "just call the police at let them handle it" are the ones who also constantly talk down the police and call them corrupt lying thugs. On one hand they expect the police to risk taking a bullet to protect their plasma TV, but they can't even have the decency or honor to give them a "thanks" or "good job" once and while. Push the police into physical danger in front while stabbing them in the back with words. Really gives me a lot of faith in my fellow gun owners.
 
Police lie and intimidate as part of their daily routine. Only a fool would trust them.

Once your career advancement and financial standing become tied to the number of arrests you make and tickets you give, the truth matters little.
Click to expand...

Wow. Just wow. Your blanket statements only expose how little you know about police work and "the daily routine".
 
Upset With Police?

Dude.

You're upset with misinformation coming from police?

Ha.

Wait until you see what the PRESS can do with that stuff.

I've been on-scene when the press showed up. I've seen their report on the six-o-clock news. I've completely boggled at the disparity between what I KNOW they saw -- remember, I was there -- and what got reported on the news.

Now, I don't get involved in events that the press reports on any kind of regular basis. Maybe a dozen times in the last 35 years.

And they've gotten it wrong ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME in all the cases where I had first-hand knowledge of the events.

Yeah, you'll get a cop here and there who goofs it and tries to cover himself.

But the press? They're the pros.
 
If a cop ever actually helped me or my loved ones, I would thank him/her. It would be nice if that went both ways though. You should also be able to criticize one if he has done you an injustice. Unfortunately this thread is starting to get off the topic of ammunition so I'll stop here.
 
Wow. Just wow. Your blanket statements only expose how little you know about police work and "the daily routine".
Click to expand...

Are you refuting that they lie as standard operating procedure or while attempting to squeeze information from people?

your naive answers are good for a chuckle.

-T
 
You're upset with misinformation coming from police?

Ha.

Wait until you see what the PRESS can do with that stuff.
Click to expand...

While true, this is a strawman argument in this context.

-T
 
ok making a blanket statement is dumb
not all cops lie or intimidate
but yes some do use it as an effective evidence gathering technique

reminds me of a funny story a guy i met "cook at a bar" was from chicago with no criminal back ground
he was picked up for questioning regarding a convenience store robbery
at one point the officer questioning told him that they had found his fingerprints at the scene
the guy almost started laughing as he had never been fingerprinted here in memphis or chicago
 
Tyris, surely you must realize the flaw in assuming the police of Detroit and LA do not in any way reflect the hundreds of thousands of police spread across the whole nation.
Click to expand...

I conceed this point.

-T
 
Strawman?

Not at all.

You're reading a report that came from . . . the press. I find their information unreliable, pretty much in direct ratio to the emotional content of the story.

You have expressed an opinion that police lie as routine, and seem to be hell-bent on driving that point home.

We have a word for that. It's trolling.

We understand that the police are not bound by law to be truthful to suspects in the course of information extraction.

To distort that into "they always lie" is defamatory, and an unsupportable generalization.

So let us cease with that approach.

We will take your point as read, and move on.

Or, you can continue to "make your point."

I would find that unacceptable.
 
To distort that into "they always lie" is defamatory, and an unsupportable generalization.
Click to expand...

I assume that statement in quotes are supposed to be mine?

I never used the word always. I said they lie as standard operating procedure. Thus I would not trust their word either casually or in an official capacity while I serve on a jury.

-T
 
No.

they lie as standard operating procedure.
Click to expand...
You see, this is simply not true.

The fact that policy or law makes it permissible for them to lie does not imply that they do.

If you have access to a departmental policy brief or statute which states that this is, as you put it, "standard operating procedure" I would certainly like to see it.

I think such a document would be tremendously illuminating.

In the absence of this, I would say you're exaggerating.

Now, I'm an easy going kind of guy, and I can understand exaggeration and hyperbole.

That doesn't mean I'm willing to accept it as truth, or tolerate the careless or casual use of that kind of generality here, as it certainly does not contribute to the overal civility quotient of the board.

So, can we leave it at that and move on?
 
This thread is sooooooooooo gonna get locked.

But before it does here's my 2¢

First off I'm siding W/ Arfin, if you didn't hear the cop say it W/ your own ears don't trust the newspaper to get it right.

Now to the OP

As was said the guy was an idiot to let the cops search his car.

We train to treat every gun as loaded, Why? because you can't tell the difference at a glance and a gun doesn't care who it shoots.

I treat every cop I met as looking for a reason to arrest me , Why? because I can't tell the difference at a glance and I've had a bad cop try to put me in jail for a crime he knew I didn't commit.

Bottom Line 90% of your problems W/ cops can be solved by following a simple rule Don't talk to them.

Cop pulls you over, ask him as soon as he walks up to the car "Officer why did you pull me over?" if he asks you any question not related to the stop shut up & ask for a lawyer.

Cop wants to question you about anything else, Officer my lawyer will be happy to give you a statement I have nothing to say W/out him present"
 
Strawman?
Not at all.
Click to expand...

I think he was suggesting it was strawman because you substituted the positions of his reaction for the police data for that of press data. I don't think it is strawman per se, but more of a Red Herring argument. It really doesn't matter what the press does, but now part of the conversation has been derailed from discussion the police data to discussing press data when press data had nothing to do with the OP.

Thanks Treo!
 
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