Police lying? Misinformed? Either way, I'm mad.

[memphisjim]

really like the loaded gun metaphor
treo

 

[hso]

Welllllll, this looks like it left the OP's original track about 20 posts ago.

The affidavit filed by the Secret Service agent refers to the Black Talons as armor piercing in item 10. Now that is amazing that a Secret Service agent would call Black Talons armor piercing. Not a reporter and not a average cop, but a Secret Service agent.

Back on track or closed.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

There's treating all guns as if they are loaded out of common sense concerns for safety. And then there's taking it to the extreme and treating all guns as if they were loaded to the point where you never dry fire practice, or even take them apart to clean them because "it's loaded". One is rational, the other is not.

There's assuming all cops you meet could be looking to arrest you so that you don't say anything wrong and make your suspicions come true, and to get the encounter over with as quickly as possible. And then there's taking it to the extreme and truly believe that all cops really are out to get you and they all really are corrupt thugs. One is rational, the other is not.

Unfortunately, treo, some, perhaps many on THR follow the second, more irrational thought process.

As for the OP, I'd say they were misinformed. Being a LEO doesn't make you a gun enthusiast. Many LEOs are just as taken by wild claims of armor piercing rounds and other goofball stuff as the next person. Carrying a gun on duty doesn't mean you know, or care to know anything about guns beyond what is required to qualify on your weapon. Sounds like a case of a couple of tough guys talking a big talking about "armor piercing rounds" and not really knowing what it means.

 

[memphisjim]

yes yes black talons teflon coated super bulletts

wonder if black talons in a super redhawk would throw them off
honest man since he has a revolver crazed man with 44mag black talons

 

[buttrap]

From what I have seen most cops are totaly ignornant on guns and gun laws. Thats why they have a DA office too look at what they put in on arrest reports.

 

[FCFC]

Strawman?
Not at all.

I think he was suggesting it was strawman because you substituted the positions of his reaction for the police data for that of press data. I don't think it is strawman per se, but more of a Red Herring argument. It really doesn't matter what the press does, but now part of the conversation has been derailed from discussion the police data to discussing press data when press data had nothing to do with the OP.

Yep. Red herring it is, a.k.a., irrelevant thesis.

Probably unintentional, though. He just thinks that press also misinforms and that it does so more than any police might. The press misinforming is simply more salient to him.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

The fact that most people get their ideas of police misconduct from the press also makes in pertinent. Listing a bunch of news stories is less reliable when the people who wrote the stories lie more than the cops in the stories themselves.

 

[Treo]

Thanks Treo!

My pleasure

 

[doc2rn]

I too want to know who coined the phrase "armour piercing" but this is something the anti's introduced to limit ammo availability like the PMC .38 dognut cutters that came out in the 80s. Sad really, because it also limits our troops in combat even though we dont subscribe to the Hague Convention.

 

[Intune]

Taurusowner-

THR members are spiteful paranoid anarchists

I don't know where you come up with this stuff but I'm gonna do everything I can to get back at you 'cause I know your agency has been watching me and when we're running this country things will be better 'cause nobody will EVER make a mistake.

 

[ErikS]

According to Wikipedia, the armor-piercing rumor started in 1993 sometime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon

I can actually see how this rumor got started.
Someone wanted to create a public outcry against the bullets (and the gun manufacturers), and calling a bullet "armor piercing" sounds really bad. It's also a fairly easy sell to people not familiar with it, just hold up a black bullet and call it bad names, like "armor piercing". People see the black color, and instinctively think the color must have some kind of special property, "why else would it be black?".
And after a few rounds in the press, the "armor piercing" line is stuck in peoples mind.
That's a very easy way to create opinion, much easier than actually using facts. And it was certainly effective, or the SS agent in the OP wouldn't have written it down that way.
(I cant see how he would have lied about that on purpose, writing down the make of the bullet and then call it "armor piercing", thinking noone that knew better would ever read it...)

Another thing I frequently see in the press is calling hollowpoints "dum-dums", or "exploding bullets". It sounds like a very bad thing, and is a good way to create a controversy. Like when you want to accuse police for using "exploding bullets, that's not even allowed to use by the military".
I've never seen a police officer or similar agent do that though, but there's always a first time.

 

[TallPine]

If I ever come up with a new bullet design, I'm going to call it the "Pink Puffball" or something like that

 

[Art Eatman]

I've had a few interactions with The Law. The first time was when a deputy said something like, "Sonny, you're too young to be driving. Go home." And I did. That was in 1948. Let me just say that it was not my first and only encounter with the forces of righteousness.

Yeah, some cops will lie. Most don't. Some will entrap. Most don't. Some are out-and-out crooked, like the ex-sheriff from a neighboring county who's doing life without parole for one metric ton of pure cocaine--but he's an anomaly.

Not all are like some local deputies we've had who would taxi a guy home because he was too drunk to walk, much less drive. But some are.

And so, because of one poster's extremely foolish grand sweeping generalizations, this thread is done.

Art