POLL: Do you bring your guns into church?

[Braden]

I usually have a full size 1911 with three spare mags in the bible cover. You would really have to be looking to even spot anything unusual. My buddy does the same with his Glock 22. I would say 5 to 8 percent of our church carries on a regular basis.

That is something that I've THOUGHT about doing, but ultimately decided that it would mean I could NEVER set it down. As involved as I am in our worship services that would be very hard to do.

 

[M2 Carbine]

"As the Preacher held Sunday services a young boy ran into the church shouting, "The Indians are on the square, the Indians are on the square". The Preacher shouted, "The Hell they are" and grabbed his pistol. A gun battle resulted in several dead indians......................"

From the Weatherford Democrat newspaper about the colorful local history. The Indians used to come down from OK to steal and kill. If they made it back across the boarder, they were home free.

Now days, as back then, there is no place that you are immune from a crazy gunman's attack. A while back a gunman took his time murdering people in a DFW area church.

If you restrict your carry because, "it can't happen here" you are just fooling yourself. Hopefully someone else isn't thinking that way and can keep you and yours alive.

 

[Sam Adams]

I picked "I carry 80% of the time or more."

Technically speaking, I should have said that I don't attend church, because being Jewish I attend my local (south Texas) Orthodox synogogue, but I answered the question as if it referenced a house of worship.

Actually, I carry 100% of the time when I go - it is one of the main reasons that I got my CHL. Jews haven't been on too many "these are my favorite people" lists for quite a while, and the situation post-9/11 illustrates that in spades. The latest crap with the cartoons of Mohamed the mad bomber only reinforces my position. The simple fact is that on Saturday mornings and other holidays (mainly the high holidays of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur), our synogogue is a big, fat juicy target for any nutjob Moslems who want to get their 72 virgins. I'm there with my wife and kids, and I'll be damned (literally and figuratively) if I'm going to react to an attack on the synogogue by sticking my thumb in my nether regions. Nope, .45 therapy is in order for anyone that would harm me, my family or my friends. We Jews are very big on "G-d helps those who help themselves" (i.e. don't sit around praying for a miracle without trying to help yourself - do all that is humanly possible to remedy whatever problem you have, pray for a miracle if that doesn't work, and if G-d thinks that you are deserving of it, He'll deliver). At least on this score, I practice what I preach.

I am far from alone in carrying at services - the rabbi carries, as do at least 4 or 5 others that I know of on any given week, including one who is ex-Israeli special forces. Woe unto anyone who tries to mess with us. On Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur we have about 10 people carrying, plus 2 or 3 local police officers.

I believe in "Never Again!" - but that is a meaningless statement without the means to back it up. In my case, and that of our synogogue, if someone tries "it" again, "it" won't be for free this time. That's the same approach that Israel takes, with its 400 or so nukes, and I'm just applying the same principle on a personal level.

 

[lewis1943]

re: do you bring your guns into church

Sam Adams said: "On Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur we have about 10 people carrying, plus 2 or 3 local police officers."

______________________________________

Sam, I'm curious about a couple of things. Are your two or three local cops members of the congregation or uniforms hired for the occasion? And if the latter, are they informed which members of the congregation are carrying?

 

[Sam Adams]

Lewis1943

Sam, I'm curious about a couple of things. Are your two or three local cops members of the congregation or uniforms hired for the occasion? And if the latter, are they informed which members of the congregation are carrying?

They are hired for the occasion. They know who most of us are, but even those of us who met (with the rabbi's unofficial blessing) to plan where we'd sit, how we'd coordinate in the event of an incident, etc. don't know who all of the CHL holders in the congregation are. We think that we know, and we invited all of them to meet with us, but short of posting an ad in one of the synogogue's publications about it (which we're not ever going to do, so as to keep the anti-gun sheeple in a state of happy blissninniehood - which is to say, not agitating to ban guns altogether), we can't know for sure.

 

[stevelyn]

I don't go to church, but if I did I would carry just the same.

It's funny in all of the church violence/shooting stories and now the arson spree in Alabama, I don't ever recall any legions of angels showing up or other divine intervention preventing the event from taking place.

Rembering that bit of history..........In Glock We Trust.

 

[TallPine]

Me....always...the entire outdoors is my church!

+1

 

[zaijian]

In Ohio, it's unlawful unless you have the church's permission. I figure it's better to ask forgiveness than permission, so I carry and don't tell anyone. But I know my pastor well enough to be reasonably sure that he'd be ok with it.

I wrote a big long post about my church defense doctrine, which I'll excerpt for the sake of space:

Texas Gunman Kills 4 in Church, Then Self

I'm sure the first thing a lot of you thought is, "what would it be like if that happened to us?"

Followed immediately by, "but that won't ever happen to us, so we don't need to worry about it."

Which is akin to saying, "I don't need to have auto insurance, because I never get into accidents."

But these attacks are nothing new.

6 months ago: Police: Gunman kills 7 at church meeting

2 years ago: Three die in church shooting

6 years ago: CHURCH SHOOTING

And by no means is this strictly an American phenomenon: 'Trained terrorists' behind Pakistan church slayings

Whenever I hear of a senseless massacre, like the church shootings above, or anywhere, in fact - I cannot help but wonder: What if somebody had been armed? What if they could've saved themselves?

But invariably, someone always responds, "Are you kidding? We don't want people with guns in church! What if they go crazy and start shooting?" The irony of their own words is lost on them. Barring putting up metal detectors on the doors and frisking every churchgoer that comes in the building, banning guns in the church means that the only ones with a gun will be the crazy ones, the disturbed, and the angry. Sane, law-abiding people follow the rules, and leave their weapons at home. The crazy ones waltz right on in. But you can't have a crazy test to determine eligibility - it's either all or nothing. And nothing is not a viable option. In the end, you just have to allow everybody, and hope that the sane people can take care of the crazy ones. (Note that I am not advocating for literally everybody - being armed is for legally-valid, mature people only).

Now every few years, I hear a particular anecdote making its rounds through the body: The story goes, a bunch of guys in ski masks with guns breaks into a church - they line everybody up against the wall, and say "Everybody who renounces Christianity will be allowed to leave unharmed - but if you are true believers, then you will be shot and killed." So a few people leave, but a good amount of the church ends up staying, and face the firing line. Then the leader of the masked men removes his mask, with tears in his eyes, and says something along the lines of "Thank you, we have been looking for brothers and sisters who truly believe that Jesus is Lord."

Which is the grandest, most monstrously retarded story I've ever heard.

First of all, any man who would do such a thing to a group of fellow believers is seriously deficient in common sense. If he wanted to find "true believers" then it would probably be best to follow the biblical example:

Matthew 7:15-20 (NLT)
20 Yes, the way to identify a tree or a person is by the kind of fruit that is produced.

I don't know of any passage in the Bible that states a believer should prove another's faith by the sword.

Secondly, if this had happened to my church (or many other red-state churches), those gunmen, benign or not, would have been shot. It doesn't really matter what their intent was, or what the final outcome was, but only what was perceived by the crowd - because, speaking for myself, if I had the ability to do something, then I would've - regardless of the outcome to myself. And I am not alone in this.

Many of us who understand and accept the responsibilities of firearm usage tend to view themselves as protectors - not as heroes, though that may be the outcome - but as those who are willing to sacrifice themselves to save others. I am not talking about policemen, or firemen - but the banker, the chiropractor, the construction worker, the programmer, the engineer. Regular people who equate power with responsibility.

[...]

In the end, I believe it boils down to trust and responsibility.

The trust in the brothers and sisters that so arm themselves;
"whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one"

The duty and responsibility that comes from increased ability;
"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required"

The responsibility to maintain control of themselves at all times;
"Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings."

The readiness of ability when needed;
"I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave"

The will to sacrifice themselves when necessary.
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

Now that is a congregation that is ready for all attacks.

 

[Braden]

That's a great post.

 

[tom barthel]

guns in church

I do not carry a gun unless getting in some range time or hunting. I know of no admonition against being armed in church. Since someone else brought up church, the church is the body of believers worshiping god through his son. All Christians are a part of the body of Christ. Jusus is not a building. Jesus told the Roman soldiers to be worthy of their pay. What do soldiers do?