POLL: Do you bring your guns into church?
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Technosavant
Member
grimjaw said:Quoth Technosavant:
I figure I have the best field of fire out of everybody
I expect fire and brimstone from the pulpit, but not HOT LEAD!
Now that's funny!
jmm
Well, now... if you don't sleep during the sermon, then we won't have a problem, now will we?
kahr404life
Member
I'm armed at all times
. Plow in one hand a sword in the other Amen. I might add that I'm a police officer and can carry without violating the law.
. Plow in one hand a sword in the other Amen. I might add that I'm a police officer and can carry without violating the law.
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Camp David
member
SASS44439 said:
As a fellow Virginian, I am a bit alarmed that the law forbids me to arm myself while availing myself of Sunday Service; yet I suppose if the Sign of Peace is suddenly outlawed, perhaps this carry law will be reversed! Curious though how such a law would be enforced, as the international "sanctuary" edict in designated "places of worship" worldwide is a stronger legal code than VA 18.2-283.
Zach S
Member
I dont attend on a regular basis, however when I do I am armed. Being half vampire (I work graveyard shift), I only attend the evening service when I go. Thankfully they're pretty laid back about attire and my un-tucked shirt doesn't get any stares, nor does my gilfriends West Coast Choppers sweatshirt. Sunday morning is a different story though.
To the best of my knowledge, church carry is not illegal in NC. The Sunday school thing mentioned above would be a stretch IMO (IANAL). Not an impossable stretch, but still a stretch.
To the best of my knowledge, church carry is not illegal in NC. The Sunday school thing mentioned above would be a stretch IMO (IANAL). Not an impossable stretch, but still a stretch.
aguyindallas
Member
Len said:
I am in no way going to challenge your religious position or beliefs, frankly because thats just not the right thing to do, especially here.
I just want to ask: You say you would prefer to go bravely, empty handed...etc...
Ok...would you not express more bravery by attempting to fight off a threat and defend your common man?
GhostRider66
Member
So concealed carry only for the rich? That doesn't seem right....
Optical Serenity
Member
Erik F said:Well, it's illegal here in Georgia.
However, the good Lord helps those who help themselves
I carry into church as well, and other religious events...Its ok as an LEO, but I think everyone in GA with a GFL should be able to.
I write my state reps every year asking for that to be changed...guess I'm in the minority...
sithanas
Member
Len said:
Here in MI, I think you mean it's illegal if house of worship disallows it. Otherwise it's legal. And seeing as more than the fair share of rabbis have been shot from their pulpits... I'll be carrying with the blessing of my congregation as soon as I have my CCW.
mainmech48
Member
Always. I don't think that anyone except my wife knows that for sure, but I could be wrong. From careful observation I'm absolutely sure that I'm not the only one who does so. So far, it hasn't become an issue as everyone has displayed proper discretion with their concealment and tactful courtesy in refraining from "outing" anyone they've happened to see an inadvertent "print" on.
Len said:
Let me offer a brief response.
I'll assume you consider yourself to be a Christian, but even if you are not then let's just say for the sake of argument that you are.
My opinion on this subject is that if you are a Christian then you should be a Christian EVERYWHERE you go. If you feel that, for religious reasons, you should not be carrying a gun during worship, then, to prevent from being hypocrytical, it would seem to me that you should not carry ANYWHERE.
In other words, as a Christian, your life outside of a formal worship service should be no different than your life during that worship service. If, as a Christian, you feel that it's just not right to carry during worship, then why do you consider it okay to carry while you are NOT at worship? After all, you're still a Christian no matter where you're at...or at least you should be.
I used to struggle with this myself when I first started carrying. I just didn't feel "right" carrying a gun to church.
The Bible doesn't really offer a lot of help on the issue of carrying a firearm. There are a lot of people who use the verse referring to buying a sword, by I personally believe that verse is often misunderstood.
So, you pretty much have to decide for yourself whether you think it is okay in God's eyes to carry a gun. But, remember that you're a Christian no matter where you are at. I sing in worship and I pray in worship. I also sing and pray when I'm not in a formal worship service. I carry in worship just like I carry everywhere else. If you feel that carrying during worship is wrong, then you probably need to evaluate carrying in general.
That's just my thoughts on the subject.
Edited to add:
If carrying a gun is a DISTRACTION to you during the worship service, then I would agree that you should not carry it. Your focus should be centered on God during worship.
Ask yourself this question. If you are at church, unarmed, and someone walks in and starts beating on your wife or children? What do you do? Do your "turn the other cheek" and passively watch the man abuse your family, or do you stand up and defend them by fighting back? If your answer to that question is that you will stand up and defend them, then you should have problem with carrying a gun during worship. A gun is simply a tool of defense....just like a fist.
I came to terms with this subject by finally realizing that, even though I should have an attitude like Christ, I don't think God intends for us to stand by and let someone destroy the friends, family and loved ones that he has blessed us with. Of course, I could be wrong. I cannot imagine that Jesus would carry a gun if He were walking the earth today. I think He would call us to be a peaceful people, but on the other hand I think we have an obligation to protect the things that the Lord has blessed us with.
So much for "brief".
tegemu
Member
Regardless of your opinion of whether you should or should not carry in church, you still have to travel to and from church. In most cases I rarely travel directly to and from my home to the church so the evil outside world then intrudes itself into the equation. Another factor is that, if you plan to leave your gun in your car while you worship, one of the favorite places of auto burglary is during church worship.
ambush
Member
No, I don't carry in church....oh wait, I live in NJ, I can't carry ANYWHERE
cambeul41
Member
Why not sit next to ... ?
Why? If the question were only about safety, they might not want us to carry, but that doesn't mean that they aren't and doesn't mean that they are not well protected.
Now if the question were about the sort of company I want to keep ... I think I would choose to sit elsewhere.
M2 Carbine said:No one has ever said they would want to be seated next to kennedy, chuckie schumer or dianne feinstein.
Why? If the question were only about safety, they might not want us to carry, but that doesn't mean that they aren't and doesn't mean that they are not well protected.
Now if the question were about the sort of company I want to keep ... I think I would choose to sit elsewhere.
zerosignal
Member
Just a quick question.
How can it be legal for states such as Virginia, Georgia, and North Carolina to enact an outright ban on carrying in a church?
If the state issues you a CHL, how can they arrest you for carrying on PRIVATE PROPERTY, unless of course the church itself prohibits it?
If the church has no problem with concealed carry, how is it any different than carrying in your own home?
Those laws sit firmly in the position of, "none of the governments freakin business".
How can it be legal for states such as Virginia, Georgia, and North Carolina to enact an outright ban on carrying in a church?
If the state issues you a CHL, how can they arrest you for carrying on PRIVATE PROPERTY, unless of course the church itself prohibits it?
If the church has no problem with concealed carry, how is it any different than carrying in your own home?
Those laws sit firmly in the position of, "none of the governments freakin business".
boogieshoes
Member
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palerider1 said:I carried when i got married
puts a whole new spin on 'is that a gun in your pocket, or....?'
'going to church' implies Christianity, or at least an arrangement where a dedicated building is used for worship services involving many many people.
as a Wiccan, that completely doesn't apply to me. Wiccans create their own sacred space in the course of their religious services by consecrating a circle of space on the ground. some traditions believe that the service should be skyclad, if at all possible, because that's the state you were born in (and the idea is to celebrate our own bodies, here, as gifts of the Goddess, and they didn't come with guns). this would intuitively seem to imply that weapons aren't welcome in the circle. so would the invitiation to enter the circle only in 'perfect love and perfect trust'.
but consider that most traditions require among their altar tools a white-handled knife (for harvesting magickal herbs), a black handled knife/sword for an athame (holder of magickal energy), and one of the symbols of Air/East is also a sword.
now, i don't own a gun for various personal reasons, and i can see that many people wouldn't think of bringing a gun to a Wiccan ceremony (which, face it, folks, is often trying to evoke a more primitive feeling in folks than guns do). but i also can't really think of a single set-in-stone, must-have-to-be-Wiccan theological reason why you *shouldn't* be able to bring one into the circle. it's *more likely* that someone would bring a sword (yayswords!), but i could see bringing in a gun to represent, say Fire/South.
or because, you know, some local idiot has a bad reputation for harassing fluffy!bunny!pagans...
this long ramble brought to you by the numbers pi and <i>i</i>, and the letters 'omighod i need some sleep already!!'
-bs
usp9
Member
zerosignal said:
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Just to be clear, Virginia does not ban CCW from churches, but rather states you can't carry unless you have a just cause or reason to do so. For most people that means no gun in the church service, while leaving the door open for those few that have compelling need.
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
I usually have a full size 1911 with three spare mags in the bible cover. You would really have to be looking to even spot anything unusual. My buddy does the same with his Glock 22. I would say 5 to 8 percent of our church carries on a regular basis.
I have had a concealed carry permit for about 6 months now and I just started using this forum about 2 months ago and I really enjoy the discussions here. Yes I carry at church and I am there about everytime the doors are open. I am in North Carolina and unless a sign is posted stating no dangerous or concealed weapons allowed it is legal to carry at church. Also just bought my second 1911 and I love it.
wolf_from_wv
Member
To the Sportsman's Group meeting? Where the guy in charge told everyone to bring your rifles so we'll have something to work with for the next meeting?
Sadly... It was on a day that the meeting had been rescheduled that a car was stolen from the parking lot, and a high speed chase with collision started...
My regular church, I haven't carried...
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I've been told that "in those days" (and still today), that when you slap someone inferior to you, you would slap them with the back of your hand. When they turned the other cheek, you would be forced to "treat them as an equal" and slap them with the palm of your hand. Does that sound right?
Sadly... It was on a day that the meeting had been rescheduled that a car was stolen from the parking lot, and a high speed chase with collision started...
My regular church, I haven't carried...
===================
I've been told that "in those days" (and still today), that when you slap someone inferior to you, you would slap them with the back of your hand. When they turned the other cheek, you would be forced to "treat them as an equal" and slap them with the palm of your hand. Does that sound right?
fantacmet
Member
TechnoSavant: From one preacher to another, I like your style. Althouhg I don't have my own congregation, I imagine that pulpit could become VERY handy if you ever (God Forbid) give a bad sermon. I find where I live just the knowledge I'm a minister is enough to get people to try and kill me. Portland Oregon where I live has the highest concentration of scum. Some people call demographics when used with crime to be discriminatory but I disagree, especially since I've been attacked by these particular demographics 8 times out of ten if they find I am a minister. Mostly Homosexuals and Liberals, of course the whole state is liberal. Whether I agree with their preference or not I've got not one single problem with a homosexual, so long as after they know I'm straight they respect that. Respect is a 2 way street. However in Portland it's ALOT different. I need to find a smaller town where the gay's are respectable people, although considering the liberal content, I doubt I can get away from the gun grabbers one way or another. SIGH.
Rev. Michael
P.S. When I do get the chance to attend as always I carry. As an aside to everyone else, check your state laws. The city of Portland prohibits carry in city parks, but according to state law, the city law is void, there is VERY specific wording on it. Just like many public schools (public college mostly) prohibit and have even arrested (falsely) people for carrying a legally concealed firearm. The state law specifically states that other then the state except as expressely provided, nobody may post laws regarding firearms. Also it states that in all such circumstances where the state grants others to make laws regarding where you can carry a handgun, a person who has a valid CHL is expressely EXEMPT from local laws prohibiting carry. The final word in the statutes is that any law to the contrary is null and void. So you might want to check your state laws. I carry alot of places that the local laws prohibit and I carry photocopies of the relevant statutes at all times as well. I've gotten more then one rent a cop and more then one officer to back down on the matter. In fact every time I have shown those laws I've never gotten anymore trouble except them saying I should still respect the wishes of the local lawmakers.
Rev. Michael
P.S. When I do get the chance to attend as always I carry. As an aside to everyone else, check your state laws. The city of Portland prohibits carry in city parks, but according to state law, the city law is void, there is VERY specific wording on it. Just like many public schools (public college mostly) prohibit and have even arrested (falsely) people for carrying a legally concealed firearm. The state law specifically states that other then the state except as expressely provided, nobody may post laws regarding firearms. Also it states that in all such circumstances where the state grants others to make laws regarding where you can carry a handgun, a person who has a valid CHL is expressely EXEMPT from local laws prohibiting carry. The final word in the statutes is that any law to the contrary is null and void. So you might want to check your state laws. I carry alot of places that the local laws prohibit and I carry photocopies of the relevant statutes at all times as well. I've gotten more then one rent a cop and more then one officer to back down on the matter. In fact every time I have shown those laws I've never gotten anymore trouble except them saying I should still respect the wishes of the local lawmakers.
armoredman
Member
I carried when I got MARRIED. Darn right I am carrying - violent felons today have no fear of God.
beaucoup ammo
Member
If I Attended
a rural Baptist church in the area of Alabama where nine (9) of the Lord's houses have been burned down in the past few days, I'd not only carry..I'd talk to the congregation about a "sleep over."
IMO, a special "surprise" might deter these idiots. Swift, uncompromising and in large number.
Take Care
P.S. "Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition!"
a rural Baptist church in the area of Alabama where nine (9) of the Lord's houses have been burned down in the past few days, I'd not only carry..I'd talk to the congregation about a "sleep over."
IMO, a special "surprise" might deter these idiots. Swift, uncompromising and in large number.
Take Care
P.S. "Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition!"
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