Possible over-charged rounds

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JTHunter

JTHunter

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After 15 years away from the reloading bench, I've had to get back into the game due to two acquisitions in the last 18 months. Those were a 4" Ruger GP-100 and a Marlin 1894 levergun, both in .357 Magnum.
It has taken me a while to get all the components I needed and I just started my loads using Winchester 296 powder and Hornady 158 gr. XTP JHPs. I'm using a Lee Turrent press with the Auto-Disk powder measure.
According to the paperwork with the powder measure, the "1.09" cavity should give 16.6 gr. of the 296 (MAX is 16.7). I checked the charges thrown on the Lee Safety scale which was reading 16.7-16.9, and used a "dipper" to scoop out a tiny amount of the powder.
However, there are 22 rounds that I have set aside as I'm not sure of their charge weights. I do not have a kinetic bullet-puller to undo the loads and what I would like to find out if any of you think 0.1-0.2 grains over max would be too dangerous to shoot. If not, which of those two guns do you believe would be the best at handling those rounds?
Next problem, the "1.02" cavity is supposed to give 15.6 gr. of the 296 (according to the chart) but my scale was reading 16.0-16.2. Any suggestions?? :confused:
 
I'm incredibly surprised that the auto disk cavity actually dropped the exact amount. That kinda makes me wonder about your readings.

The lee scale can be quite tricky to some people. Please, double and triple check that weight.

PS I'm a faithful lee user. I've never had a cavity actually drop what they say.
 
1. You posted this in the wrong forum.
Should be in reloading.
I will ask a mod to move it to reloading.

2. Realistically, powder cannot be measured by dipper or volume measures, and reasonably expect them to weigh out right on a scale.

3. Power may weigh more or less depending on age and solvent loss, or poor storage and moisture getting in it.

4. If you 'are not sure of the charge weights' the only thing to do is pull the bullets and dump them.

My advice though?
Asking which gun is stronger so I can shoot the loads I don't know what's in them better!!!

That's just wrong right there!!

If you are going to reload at all.
Don't even think that way!!

Rc
 
If there is any question you have overcharged rounds they need to be pulled. If that means getting a bullet puller so what? It's still a lot cheaper than a new gun.
 
I'm going to disagree with the conventional wisdom here.

If my understanding is correct, the possible "overcharge" is 16.9 instead of 16.7? .2 gr in a 16.7gr load of 296 would probably not even be distinguishable over a Chrony. Consider them loaded at max, and work up to the level before firing them. If "possible overcharge" might possibly mean some unknown amount more than .2 gr, then I misunderstand and would recommend pulling them. If 16.7 is safe, 16.9 is not unsafe.

Don't have my records in front of me but I think I'm still shooting 17.0gr under a 158gr cast or jacketed in my GP100 which is a reduction of the Speer published loads from when I originally worked it up. I'd be curious as to what Speer lists today, but it used to be 17.9 if I remember right.

So once again, if "possibly overcharged" means by .2 gr, you are fine. If "unknown charge" could possibly mean anything else, you should pull them.
 
Go buy a bullet puller. It's not worth the loss of body parts or your firearm!
 
You can get a close idea of the charge weight by weighing the components you used. Primed case and bullet. Then weigh the loaded rounds. This may not be accurate down to a tenth of a grain but it will tell you if you double charged. Invest in a puller. It's wayyy cheaper than a new gun and hand.
 
Good grief! Buy a bullet puller they are cheap insurance. Why guess.?????
:confused:

Buy a another scale also. I use all LEE products but their scale (may be accurate) but is a pain to use.

The chart is just a guide, you must weigh your powder to see what the discs are throwing. Some are almost right on, some way way off depending on the powder.

A good scale is a the most important tool in reloading.

Yes, you have to spend some money but it is worth it and far less than a gun or body part.
 
TimSr said:
I think double charging would be quite impossible with 296.
Click to expand...

...it is.



243winxb said:
Starting load should be 16.2 gr if maximum is 16.7 grs. Or 3% less then maximum listed.
Click to expand...


Hodgdon/Winchester gives a starting load of 15gr.

My question to the OP is why he chose to start out at a max or above max load for his first attemp after 15 years.

According to the paperwork with the powder measure, the "1.09" cavity should give 16.6 gr. of the 296 (MAX is 16.7). I checked the charges thrown on the Lee Safety scale which was reading 16.7-16.9, and used a "dipper" to scoop out a tiny amount of the powder.
Click to expand...


My suggestion to the OP is to use only virgin or once fired brass for loads that hot in his .357 lever gun. Because those actions lock up at the rear, with heavy loads the bolt can flex when fired and cause brass to stretch.


If you are unsure of the charge weight, pull 'em. Period.
 
1.02 gives me 15.6gr and 1.09 gives me 16.7gr w296.

Op- did you work up a load or did you just decide to jump on in and load to max? Pm me your address and I'll mail you a new bullet puller free of charge. I have 4 of them acquired through trades and have no need for a kinetic puller. I cast all my bullets so its always easier to pull on press with a pair of cutters and recast the bullet later.
 
Personally, I would never start loads at on near maximum (-.1 gr.). Been reloading a long time and I have yet to use max. loads with any consistency, much easier on me and my guns. Since I have no need for max loads. I'd pull some and weigh each charge. if they were at max. or above even .1 gr., I'd pull them all and start much lower (like starting book loads).

But, both the guns you mention are strong/modern actions and would prolly digest those max. rounds with no problems...
 
After 15 years away from the reloading bench
Click to expand...
Welcome back. As rcmodel posted, not much has changed in the world of reloading when it comes to basic reloading safety practices.

JTHunter said:
22 rounds that I have set aside as I'm not sure of their charge weights ... I do not have a kinetic bullet-puller to undo the loads
Click to expand...
If there's any doubt, keep them aside until you get a bullet puller.

Life is too short ...

If you have any doubts about your loads, pull them.

If you have any doubts about your scale readings, use check weights in the same powder charge range.

If you have any doubts about your progressive reloading, clear the shell plate and start over.

Life is hard enough, why make it any harder?
 
Another note- how consistently you operate your press will certainly affect how consistent your charge weights are. This comes down mainly to how smoothly you operate the lever. I know that at that charge weight, I can get my autodisk to throw a half grain heavier if i let the lever abruptly drop, jarring the powder measure and allowing powder to settle.
 
22 rounds? That's it? PM Mike and pull 'em when you get the puller. No big deal. 200 rounds? Then you can cuss a little bit. :banghead:
 
Seriously?
Maybe I value my equipment and safety too much.

Buy a puller and do it right.
 
Im a newbie to reloading and I would pull them.

I have the LEE Auto Disc, don't like it. Tried the charge bar and its fine for the rifle or large handgun loads, didn't work for .38/.357 or 9mm.

Then I learned of the LEE Auto-Drum! Very accurate! Life is good!

I have made it a practice to visually check each round, using a clamp on LED booklight that someone on here suggested.

Every tenth round gets weighed on the LEE safety scales and the Frankfort digital scale. So far the LEE Auto-Drum has been dead on.
 
While I would usually agree with the freeloaders above, in this case I might no. Hodgdon does list a max charge of 16.7gr W296 under a 158gr jacketed bullet but there is also current data listing the max charge as 17.0gr. Are you using a magnum primer? If not, that is another reason not to worry about .2gr of powder. This is only my opinion and I'm not telling you to shoot them, only that I would and in either of those guns with the slight edge to the Carbine.

Just a note, I have a Winchester manual from before Hodgdon took over Winchester Powders and the max charge was listed @17.5gr W296. Just saying....
 
Every dipper I've ever used has thrown charges lower than what the chart said. I'd check your scale with a known weight like a penny and see if its results are where it should be.

A new zinc penny weighs 2.5 grams or 38.5809 grains. So you should get 38.6 grain on your powder scale as its accuracy is only +/- .05 gr. Note the older copper penny's weight in at 3.11 grams more or less.

Look up the weight of another coin if you can't find a zinc penny using the web (Google) and convert the measure to grains. Plenty of weight volume conversion programs and websites that will do it for free. That will give you a known weight accurate enough to use as a check weight within a 1/10 grain. I think your scale or your use of it is reading heavy.
 
If you are only loding pistol rounds a kinetic puller (hammer) is OK.
If you will be reloading for rifle also then a press mounted puller with collets, such as the Hornady cam lock is recommended.
The collets are sold separately.
 
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