Possible over-charged rounds

[thump_rrr]

Is there something that isn't understood about the meaning of the word MAXIMUM??
Stu

Maximum is not a one size fits all answer.
When manufacturer X says 14.8gr maximum load it is for that lot of powder with that specific primer in that particular volume of case in that particular chamber and that particular bullet loaded to that particular length.

I am a member on another precision rifle forum where people share a lot of load data with the warning that their loads are over maximum published loads.
Some of their loads are 4 full grains over maximum in a .308!!!
When I was a novice reloader I heeded the MAXIMUM LOAD warnings.
Once I gained experience and a chronograph I began to work outside that maximum load envelope. My very best .308 load in one of my precision rifles is nearly 2 full grains over maximum. It shows no signs of overpressure, no heavy bolt lift, no hard extraction, no ejector marks, no loose primer pockets.
My Lapua brass is on its 19th loading and the primer pockets are still good. Of course I anneal my brass regularly. My brass will be retired later this spring once I rebarrel the rifle.

 

[fguffey]

Possible over charge?

There are 22 rounds that I have set aside as I'm not sure of their charge weights.

I can understand that, for every good reason for developing methods and techniques when reloading there are 5 bad reasons for not doing it. A reloader that does not know the weight of their components has no way of determining the powder charge after loading. I will not load on a progressive press without a lock out die when loading straight wall cases. I will not load bottle neck cases without a powder die.

I will not load cases that do not match in weight meaning I know the weight of the bullet, case, primer and powder. Before I pull the trigger after loading I have one more chance to check for ‘the double charge’.

F. Guffey

 

[JTHunter]

Everybody - thank you very much for your concerns (many of which I had) and advice.

Steve C - my scale read a 2015 penny 38.6 grains. That's a good tip to remember. Thanks!

Reefinmike - thanks for your most generous offer. A pm will be sent shortly.

A few more details on these questionable loads. The primers used so far have been CCI #550 Small Pistol Magnum primers. I also have (not used yet) some Winchester Small Pistol Magnum primers.
The previous reloading I have done have been for my .380 and .243 rounds. Both were worked up for their respective powders (W231 and Accurate 2230) and for the 3 bullet weights used in each gun, starting about 5-8% below max.
On the .380, I was loading 90, 95, and 100 gr. bullets and my best accuracy turned out to be 0.1-0.2 gr. below max. I scaled several rounds of each at max for the W231, using mixed brass, with no signs of over-pressure.
The .243 bullets used were 60 and 75 gr. HPs and 100 gr. SPBT (all Sierra) and, oddly enough, my best accuracy with the 2230 was near max again. Using the Double Disc kit on my press, the final loads I worked up for the 100 grainers was 33.3 +/- 0.1 with a max of 33.5 grains. In working up the loads for the .243, I actually DID take it to the 33.5 and scaled 10 rounds of mixed brass (R-P, Fed., Win., Savage) to test. There was never any indication of cratering, blown or "flowed" primers, or bulged cases.
This the main reason I started on the high side. I have also been somewhat disappointed with the accuracy of the GP-100 at 25 yds. but this may be due to the cylinder gap being so large on this particular pistol. My feeler gauges measure it 0.007" loosely and 0.008" very snugly. I think that it is losing enough pressure from the factory loads I've been using that accuracy has been adversely affected. My 40 year old .380 with a 2.5" barrel is possibly more accurate at 25 yds. than the GP-100.
Sorry for being so long-winded but some explanations and history were in order.

Again, thank you all for your concerns.

 

[TRX]

Just weigh the completed cartridges. It's more accurate if all the brass is the same, but it'll still tell you if your powder charge is out of whack.

 

[webrx]

I had 50 rounds that were supposed to be 2.7, I also had 50 with a different bullet that were supposed to be 3.7. I loaded the first set, the 2.7, and realized I had loaded them at 3.7. The max for the first bullet was 3.3. I Pulled all 50 and reloaded them.

I value my guns and my extremities.

YMMV

d

 

[LiveLife]

Just weigh the completed cartridges. It's more accurate if all the brass is the same, but it'll still tell you if your powder charge is out of whack.

OP is trying to determine if the rounds were overcharged by a few tenths of grain.

45ACP cases can vary in weight by a few grains.

 

[JTHunter]

TRX - nice idea but the scale only goes to 110 grains and the bullets are 158 grains.

 

[Reefinmike]

TRX - nice idea but the scale only goes to 110 grains and the bullets are 158 grains.

Also, as BDS noted, your cases will vary atleast 5 grains and bullets up to a grain. Unless you start with cases and bullets sorted by weight, weighing the entire cartridge to find the powder charge inside is pointless.

 

[TimSr]

While I would usually agree with the freeloaders above, in this case I might no. Hodgdon does list a max charge of 16.7gr W296 under a 158gr jacketed bullet but there is also current data listing the max charge as 17.0gr. Are you using a magnum primer? If not, that is another reason not to worry about .2gr of powder. This is only my opinion and I'm not telling you to shoot them, only that I would and in either of those guns with the slight edge to the Carbine.

Just a note, I have a Winchester manual from before Hodgdon took over Winchester Powders and the max charge was listed @17.5gr W296. Just saying....

People hear the word "overcharged" and freak out. I would contend that 16.9 instead of 16.7 is not an overcharge or even max when you look at various sources of data. I sure hope not, because 17.8gr was my standard load for years based on #9 and #10 Speer. I only dropped to it to 17.0 a year ago as my two Lymans list 17.0 and 17.1 and I wanted to fall within multiple sources. The idea that a 1.2% increase from one source's 16.7 might cause damage or injury has me shaking my head.

 

[JTHunter]

Update

In addition to all the helpful information and concern all of you have posted, I also contacted Lee Precision and they had an interesting take on this problem. Here's their email (emphasis added):

Hello JT,

Trust your scale. If your scale indicates that you are 0.1 grain over maximum on your powder charge believe it and do not fire that ammunition in either of your guns. It would not be safe to do so. You should take that ammunition apart and remake the cartridges with a safe powder charge.

The density of a particular powder can and will vary from one manufacturing lot to another. (Hhmm - interesting thought!) If the density of your container of powder is slightly higher than the density of the powder sample used by Lee to establish the published Volume Measured Density (VMD) for the powder an equal volume of your powder will weigh a little more. The powder disks used with the Lee Auto Disk Powder Measures were designed and intended to deliver start grain powder charges. It is okay to us a larger disk cavity to deliver a heavier charge but only if you verify the charge weight by weighing it on a powder scale. The Lee adjustable charge bar p/n 90792 is a tool that can be used with the auto disk to attain the exact powder charge that you desire.

If you have any questions please let me know.

Thanks,

Pxxxxx
Customer Service

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027

Solves my problem VERY clearly!
It looks like I will try using two discs to get about 16.4-16.6 grains or I may just go to the 1.02 disc again and settle for the 16.0-16.2 grains I had before.
One reason I was going towards the max end is that the manual I have lists the FpS velocity of the round when fired from either a 7.7" barrel (.38 Specials) or a 10" barrel for the .357 loads. While that MAY be appropriate in the Marlin 1894 with its 18" barrel, the speed loss from a 4" revolver will be rather large, hence the large charges. Oh well.

Thanks again for all your posts. You help was appreciated.