Powder for .45 colt in Rifle

AJC1 said:
You can restore your powder supply now if you desire. Powder valley has had 8s of a lot of good powders. Bite the bullet once and be done. 16lbs of tac, an 8 of varget and 4831 and your rifle days can be solved for a while. I think max is 32 lbs per order. I prioritize tac because of its usefulness and price.
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I got lots of powder, lots of large rifle primers but not a lot of small primers.
Only powder I might buy more of is n555 since I'm down to less than 2lb and burn up about 42 to 44gr per shot.
 
EricBu said:
Yeah, sadly, you will likely never see it in print from the manufacturer. Winchester used to tell you if you called support that you could load their 94AE in 45 Colt to 44 Mag pressures (they did me 15 or 20 years ago or so), but I don't think they will anymore. Henry wouldn't answer the question at all, even though I can tell you the Henry X in 45 Colt and 44 Mag are identical guns, and the Henry easily handles ruger only loads...but why would you take me for my word? It's your gun, you accept or reject the risk on your terms, not because "some guy on the internet" said it was ok. I mean, we all know the "rules" for Tier Loads, but it's up to each individual to decide if they want to pursue it. Never forget, today Keith would have been kicked off THR for the loads he shared...
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If one could obtain the blue prints for both the 44mag and 45colt and see that the metals are the same thickness, barrel threads, ect. As long as both receivers were made out of steel.
 
N555 said:
If one could obtain the blue prints for both the 44mag and 45colt and see that the metals are the same thickness, barrel threads, ect. As long as both receivers were made out of steel.
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Then we get in the conflict where a guy with the brass big boy tries to do what the guy with a steel big boy does. I maintain that decision is on the individual that does the research and validation themselves.
 
N555 said:
If one could obtain the blue prints for both the 44mag and 45colt and see that the metals are the same thickness, barrel threads, ect. As long as both receivers were made out of steel.
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Heat treatment of the steel can be different. In the as received state the tensile strength may only be 70,000 psi, where heat treated it may be over 190,000 psi. Almost 3 times as strong same steel, just heat treated differently. Need to have full details before a judgement can me called.
 
EricBu said:
I generally agree with you....and for the most part my loading for 45 Colt is in the opposite direction, because subsonic Suppressed 45 Colt out of a repeater is an amazingly fun tool, and a helluva a coyote slayer...but that said......as a first hunting gun for a kid, or as a light brush gun, it is really hard to beat the Win 94AE in 45 Colt. It's light, easy to carry, more than sufficient knock down, and you can start the kids on cowboy loads and they will gain confidence as they shoot. It was a lot of fun working with my kids, over time they both worked up to 1500 fps 250 grain bullets without even noticing it, lol. Many white tail and elk fell to those guns out to 100 yards. If I had started them with a 45-70, they would probably never have picked up a gun again!
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I was specifically referring to @AJC1 ’s inherited Winchester. It’s not replaceable so I agree with him that trying to push it to “Ruger Only” pressure and past is not the best of ideas.

I also agree that trying to one-up or pressure people (pun intended) into doing something potentially dangerous is not the High Road way to go. If Winchester puts it in writing, no disclaimer needed. Until then, it’s dangerous rumor and belongs elsewhere. Strictly speaking of over pressure loads. If you or anyone else wants to do it, write a book about your journey and try to become, “The Next Elmer,” more power to you (or them). Until having achieved that international renown, telling people to go past reasonable safety limits is not responsible and not in accordance with the reloading forum guidelines.
 
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GeoDudeFlorida said:
I was specifically referring to @AJC1 ’s inherited Winchester. It’s not replaceable so I agree with him that trying to push it to “Ruger Only” pressure and past is not the best of ideas.

I also agree that trying to one-up or pressure people (pun intended) into doing something potentially dangerous is not the High Road way to go. If Winchester puts it in writing, no disclaimer needed. Until then, it’s dangerous rumor and belongs elsewhere. Strictly speaking of over pressure loads. If you or anyone else wants to do it, write a book about your journey and try to become, “The Next Elmer,” more power to you (or them). Until having achieved that international renown, telling people to go past reasonable safety limits is not responsible and not in accordance with the reloading forum guidelines.
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Settle down there son....nobody told anybody to do anything, I think the opposite was clearly stated many times. And at this point, the 3 tiers of 45 Colt loadings are far far past "dangerous rumor", and if it isn't discussed here, and people aren't made to understand those terms.....then it's quite easy for somebody who doesn't understand the difference (and were shamed into NOT asking on THR about it) to use the data the wrong way...IE, thinking "ruger only" means safe in a New Model Vaquero (if you don't know....NO it's NOT). I mean, I understand.....if you don't want to do it, don't do it....but trying to stop the conversations...well, that's how we got to the nanny state now isn't it?
 
EricBu said:
Settle down there son....nobody told anybody to do anything, I think the opposite was clearly stated many times. And at this point, the 3 tiers of 45 Colt loadings are far far past "dangerous rumor", and if it isn't discussed here, and people aren't made to understand those terms.....then it's quite easy for somebody who doesn't understand the difference (and were shamed into NOT asking on THR about it) to use the data the wrong way...IE, thinking "ruger only" means safe in a New Model Vaquero (if you don't know....NO it's NOT). I mean, I understand.....if you don't want to do it, don't do it....but trying to stop the conversations...well, that's how we got to the nanny state now isn't it?
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Son? Lol! Well, bless your little heart!

I think we’d be entering another taboo area talking about Nanny state and such but there is a good way to talk about these “this gun only” things and it’s by letting people know - 100% agree on that - that’s a rule of thumb with lots of provisos, which is why I been called out before, too - posting .38-44 loads for older Colt D-Frames. Colt used to condone the practice, then they didn’t.

If you’re recommending a load that isn’t verified by someone besides the mouse in your pocket, post it with the recommended warning. It’s in the forum rules. That’s all.

The OP is looking for a good hunting load and has been given some good ideas from actual printed sources. I wasn’t looking to make anyone mad, just reminding the OP and anyone reading this that those third tier loads might be “safe” in their guns, but they also might not. Safe or not, they will very likely wear them out quicker. That’s why I tell people, here’s what I do but, don’t do what I do cause it won’t work for you like it works for me.
“Son”. Not taking the High Road seriously are you?
 
EricBu said:
Settle down there son....nobody told anybody to do anything, I think the opposite was clearly stated many times. And at this point, the 3 tiers of 45 Colt loadings are far far past "dangerous rumor", and if it isn't discussed here, and people aren't made to understand those terms.....then it's quite easy for somebody who doesn't understand the difference (and were shamed into NOT asking on THR about it) to use the data the wrong way...IE, thinking "ruger only" means safe in a New Model Vaquero (if you don't know....NO it's NOT). I mean, I understand.....if you don't want to do it, don't do it....but trying to stop the conversations...well, that's how we got to the nanny state now isn't it?
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Exactly why I load my .45 Colt loads, whether rifle or revolver to tier #1 loads. Nice and mild and accurate. Easy on the firearm and shooter. Loading more of those tomorrow while it rains.
250gr coated rnfp and 8.0 Unique. Bliss!
 
Blue68f100 said:
Heat treatment of the steel can be different. In the as received state the tensile strength may only be 70,000 psi, where heat treated it may be over 190,000 psi. Almost 3 times as strong same steel, just heat treated differently. Need to have full details before a judgement can me called.
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190,000 would likely be very brittle and be of such high alloy content machining would be a pita. Typically firearms steel is 4140 and had a tensile strength of around 100,000psi.
That's about the strongest steel I would want to try to machine.
It's safe to say is not 190,000psi, likely not even 150,000psi, probably not 70,000psi.
Likely that 90,000 to 100,000 range.
 
I'm just getting started in my .45c adventures. I started with H110 and haven't tried any others yet. So far, I'm pretty happy with my H110 loads with 250xtp and 230gr fmj's, might take a deer with the Xtp next year. Planning to work with HS-6 and 4227 next.
 
.45Coltguy said:
Exactly why I load my .45 Colt loads, whether rifle or revolver to tier #1 loads. Nice and mild and accurate. Easy on the firearm and shooter. Loading more of those tomorrow while it rains.
250gr coated rnfp and 8.0 Unique. Bliss!
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I do something different but with the same effect. All my regular brass cases are loaded to standard pressure 45 Colt specs (i load a 255 LSWC on top of 12.9 gr of Blue Dot and in my 6.5” bbl Model 25-9 it gives me 1,000 fps.)

As for my rifle ammo that is only for the rifle, I load them in Starline and Remington nickel coated cases (Hornady 240gr XTP Mag on top of 22.5gr of Win 296 which yelled’s 1,505 fps in my Rossi 92 w/ 20” bbl)

So by both casing color and bullet type I can keep them separate and I never take both guns to the range at the same time. Just my two cents worth.
 
This thread has been more informative and interesting than I had expected. Thanks everyone. I did call Winchester years ago about pressure ratings and will have to look through my notes, but I recall it being above SAAMI since I called another manufacturer around the same time regarding a SAA Clone. I'll stay in Tier 2. I inherited this rifle and have no intentions of destroying it or wearing it out prematurely.

For those that have used IMR4227, are magnum primers the best? I've read mixed reports.

I am leaning toward IMR 4227, although Lil'gun and HS-6 are in the running. Next I need to find a few more brass lol.
 
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I haven't seen three tiers the same as 45-70. I definitely have seen two tiers with normal and ruger only. I very much believe it would be a service to our community to go three tier in print for exactly the same reasons as 45-70. Level 1 antique level2 modern and level 3 ruger only.
 
Around here the cheapest ammo I'm finding is +$40 for box of 50 target fmj's.
So that's. $0.80 /rd vs $0.65. If you buy 100. 0f course, taxes and shipping may wash that a little closer depending on where you live.
 
bsparker said:
I inherited this rifle and have no intentions of destroying it or wearing it out prematurely.

For those that have used IMR4227, are magnum primers the best? I've read mixed reports.

I am leaning toward IMR 4227, although Lil'gun and HS-6 are in the running. Next I need to find a few more brass lol.
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I do not use Magnum primers with IMR4227, I see no reason to. I will tell you IMR4227 likes to be in a full case, not necessarily compressed, but with as little void as possible. My first (starting) loads of IMR4227 in the .41MAG were quite disappointing... dirty, smoky, nasty smelling... but once I pumped the charge weight up, it cleaned up very nicely. It was the first powder I reached for when I started loading for my .45 Colt H&R.


AJC1 said:
I haven't seen three tiers the same as 45-70.
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There is, sort of. I think I copied these pages out of an old issue of G&A... unfortunately, they are for 280grn bullets; not really sure why I did that. The author separated his .45 Colt loads into 3 categories... Colt SAA, Modern Colt, and Ruger-only. I would have to try to find that copy to get the full context of his data; if memory serves, it was by Brian Pierce [sp?.] The limits were 14K, 20K and 32K PSI, respectively.

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Charlie98 said:
I do not use Magnum primers with IMR4227, I see no reason to. I will tell you IMR4227 likes to be in a full case, not necessarily compressed, but with as little void as possible. My first (starting) loads of IMR4227 in the .41MAG were quite disappointing... dirty, smoky, nasty smelling... but once I pumped the charge weight up, it cleaned up very nicely. It was the first powder I reached for when I started loading for my .45 Colt H&R.




There is, sort of. I think I copied these pages out of an old issue of G&A... unfortunately, they are for 280grn bullets; not really sure why I did that. The author separated his .45 Colt loads into 3 categories... Colt SAA, Modern Colt, and Ruger-only. I would have to try to find that copy to get the full context of his data; if memory serves, it was by Brian Pierce [sp?.] The limits were 14K, 20K and 32K PSI, respectively.

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If they made load tables by pressure I'd be in heaven, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
AJC1 said:
If they made load tables by pressure I'd be in heaven, but I'm not holding my breath.
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(To pharaphrase one of my favorite TV shows of the '70's...)

"We have the technology... we can reload it, make it better than before.... faster, safer, more accurate..."

You know I have QuickLoad... ;)
 
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