Powder for .45 colt in Rifle

AJC1 said:
I haven't seen three tiers the same as 45-70. I definitely have seen two tiers with normal and ruger only. I very much believe it would be a service to our community to go three tier in print for exactly the same reasons as 45-70. Level 1 antique level2 modern and level 3 ruger only.
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But “Ruger Only “ doesn’t really mean “Ruger Only” it means “only certain models and runs of some Rugers.” Just like the “T/C Contender Only” loads are different for each generation of T/C Contender. Not by a country mile but by a good margin. Contender and Encore loads are off by a country mile which is why it’s not okay to say, “T/C Only.” I think that’s one reason why there’s so much resistance in the industry to use generic terms for over spec’ data.
 
Charlie98 said:
(To pharaphrase one of my favorite TV shows of the '70's...)

"We have the technology... we can reload it, make it better than before.... faster, safer, more accurate..."

You know I have QuickLoad... ;)
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Interesting how the data flipped from PSI to CUP.
 
dartor said:
I've ordered 41 Magnum, 44-40, and 45-70 brass from Starline. All were on backorder. None of the orders took longer than two weeks to arrive.
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I may have to try that.:) Usually when I see "back ordered" or "out of stock", I just look elsewhere. I've had an order for 300wm brass on backorder for over a year now from one supplier.:confused:
 
AJC1 said:
I haven't seen three tiers the same as 45-70. I definitely have seen two tiers with normal and ruger only. I very much believe it would be a service to our community to go three tier in print for exactly the same reasons as 45-70. Level 1 antique level2 modern and level 3 ruger only.
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3 tiers = Original 45 Colt, then the 45 ACP level of pressures which is safe in any 45 Colt that is also chambered in 45 ACP (whether clips or a convertible), and tier 3..the "ruger only" tier of loads, which bumps up on 44 Mag pressures.

There's printed load data for all of the above, and virtually every mainstream load manual...but where it gets squirrely is "Can I shoot high pressure Colt in my gun". And that's where people got to make their own judgement calls. The closest thing to a real reference would be the high pressure boutique ammo makers.....like Buffalo Bore. Their high end ammo is what I would call "Tier 3"...they flat out say it's ok to run in any 1892 or 1894 model of carbine. Which means they've looked at the risk/return, and decided it's worth a lawsuit. Is it worth your hand or face? Well, that's up to you;-) I also wouldn't ever run it in gramps old gun, or whatever. And for reference, they have a a 260 grain load that runs about 1500 fps in a 94. The old "rule" if you will, is any large frame ruger revolver (though why not just buy a 454?), and any gun that is also chambered in 44 Mag (why not just buy a 44 mag?). As far as all the "metallurgy arguments"...you guys do realize that all of these makers and all of these guns.....almost all of them use the exact same frame and bolt for many of their calibers...they generally have "small, medium, and big", based on how LONG the cartridge being chambered is.....almost all of the early colt levers were simply rebarreled .30-30 platforms. I think, though somebody would have to research this....but the only lever manufacturer that I can think of offhand that ever did anything unique was Rossi, when they stretched their receiver a bit so it could accommodate 454. Meh, don't do it, do it.....I've got no dog in that race, but I love the discussion, and I love the info being passed around mostly to keep guys from thinking they can run tier 3 in their new model vaquero, "because it's a ruger", which is why I absolutely HATE calling these ruger only loads...causes way to many misconceptions.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Son? Lol! Well, bless your little heart!

I think we’d be entering another taboo area talking about Nanny state and such but there is a good way to talk about these “this gun only” things and it’s by letting people know - 100% agree on that - that’s a rule of thumb with lots of provisos, which is why I been called out before, too - posting .38-44 loads for older Colt D-Frames. Colt used to condone the practice, then they didn’t.

If you’re recommending a load that isn’t verified by someone besides the mouse in your pocket, post it with the recommended warning. It’s in the forum rules. That’s all.

The OP is looking for a good hunting load and has been given some good ideas from actual printed sources. I wasn’t looking to make anyone mad, just reminding the OP and anyone reading this that those third tier loads might be “safe” in their guns, but they also might not. Safe or not, they will very likely wear them out quicker. That’s why I tell people, here’s what I do but, don’t do what I do cause it won’t work for you like it works for me.
“Son”. Not taking the High Road seriously are you?
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Hahaha, "bless your heart", love it. Don't be insulted by "son"....if we were sitting around a camp fire with a beer and talking guns, at least where i'm from.....son is a standard debate comment. No, I would not recommend any load except in rare instances....but I did post where such loads can be found.....in any mainstream load manual in fact. And pushing a 250 to 1500 fps in a carbine isn't even near the high end of tier 3 loads anyway...
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
But “Ruger Only “ doesn’t really mean “Ruger Only” it means “only certain models and runs of some Rugers.” Just like the “T/C Contender Only” loads are different for each generation of T/C Contender. Not by a country mile but by a good margin. Contender and Encore loads are off by a country mile which is why it’s not okay to say, “T/C Only.” I think that’s one reason why there’s so much resistance in the industry to use generic terms for over spec’ data.
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And that's exactly right, and part of the problem in my opinion. There's been some talk of submitting a 45 Colt +P designation to SAAMI, but I'm not sure who will step up to pay for that, or if anybody thinks the cartridge has enough interest to merit it. The "Ruger Only" designation is dangerous for just the reason you mentioned. There's at least a half dozen ammo makers in the tier 3 arena though, and they all same to be content with providing some general information on the guns that it's safe in. They all say "large frame rugers", and I'm not sure that half of all 45 Colt owners would even know what that means.....they do at least specifically call out New Model Vaqueros as NOT safe. I personally would pass 14K in ANY SAA Army clone, regardless of maker, unless that manufacturer spelled it out specifically.
 
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EricBu said:
mostly to keep guys from thinking they can run tier 3 in their new model vaquero, "because it's a ruger", which is why I absolutely HATE calling these ruger only loads...causes way to many misconceptions.
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Everything was fine until Ruger came out with the 'new' New Model Blackhawk. I really, really wish they would have called it something else.
 
EricBu said:
And that's exactly right, and part of the problem in my opinion. There's been some talk of submitting a 45 Colt +P designation to SAAMI, but I'm not sure who will step up to pay for that, or if anybody thinks the cartridge has enough interest to merit it. The "Ruger Only" designation is dangerous for just the reason you mentioned. There's at least a half dozen ammo makers in the tier 3 arena though, and they all same to be content with providing some general information on the guns that it's safe in. They all say "large frame rugers", and I'm not sure that half of all 45 Colt owners would even know what that means.....they do at least specifically call out New Model Vaqueros as NOT safe. I personally would pass 14K in ANY SAA Army clone, regardless of maker, unless that manufacturer spelled it out specifically.
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I’m reasonably sure Winchester never proofed AE’s in-house, not by the time they were developed, and where they sent them probably didn’t proof for anything over 35k CUP - because, why would they at that time? - but feeding any gun a proofing load is rolling the bones. I also like to remind folks looking at higher levels in these older cartridges, if you can’t do your own pressure testing, you’re just guessing what the actual pressure is. Even predictive models are just an informed guess. Rolling the dice is fun and all but folks need to understand that is what they’re doing.
 
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