Powder selection choices and substitution reality for 2024

[.45Coltguy]

I always chose Alliant powders first until this recent shortage and price increase. I am now in process of replacing ALL Alliant powders because of their very poor availability and because they are now more expensive than VV powders! I will never buy another Alliant powder. Just my personal thing, their products are great, but I'm taking this personally. I don't wish or want to convince anyone else to do the same.

Bullseye - I have enough to last and will not need to replace.
2400 - replaced with AA#9
BE-86 - I have enough to last and will not need to replace.
RL16 - going to replace soon with H4350
Herco - will replace with AA#5
Unique - will replace with Universal
RL26 - replaced with IMR 7828SSC
MP300 - replaced with H110
Red Dot - Probably have enough to last

Edit: Ok I admit, if I went to the store today and they had RL16 or 2400 for the same price as the other available powders...I'd buy them, but only if they were the same or lower price!

Good luck finding Universal.

 

[Rimfire McNutjob]

But 1 lb/$26 is out of stock. Only 8 lbs/$326 is available which comes to $40/lb.

Sorry, I bought several of the 1lb 300MP a few days back. I probably got in on the tail end of it. I had also posted it in the components on sale sticky so people may have hit them from that post.

 

[LiveLife]

I bought several of the 1lb 300MP a few days back. I probably got in on the tail end of it.

$26/lb for 300 MP was a great deal.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Good luck finding Universal.

Is the current version of Universal made in Australia or Canada?

Edit: NM. I looked it up: Made in Canada

 

[westernrover]

I mostly see Shooter's World under $30/pound, but I saw Ramshot X-Terminator today for $30.99 at Scheels and then I went to Sportsmans and paid $47.99 for it, because Scheels is 587 miles away.

The closest Sportsmans was a strange experience. Their ammo shelves were almost totally bare. I hadn't seen it like that since 2020. I also noticed their prices were notably higher than another Sportsmans in a bigger city that I visited Wednesday. I asked the guy at the gun counter about the bare shelves and he just had foul words for an answer -- not toward me or even in anger, but towards the management. He obviously thought little of them but wasn't angry, just resigned, like "whatever." I guess they've got problems. The other Sportsmans about 50 miles farther was normal for ammo and prices but didn't have much powder.

If the X-Terminator works out the best for 55 gr. in 223, I'll be looking for 8#'ers in the $300 range, but it's got to beat out Benchmark, H335, and StaBall Match first. I ordered those for pickup at some other big stores that are relatively local.

What seems to be available and decent in price are all the SMP products. That's sort of what I'd expect because they can produce ball powders to meet demand a lot faster than extruded. Then there's all the problems they're having down there at ADI, and what's Canada doing? Making artillery shells I think.

I was under the impression that X-Terminator was the same as A2230, but found that they moved 2230 to St. Marks and added decoppering agent to X-Terminator. Handloader Magazine's powder profile reads that they moved X-Terminator to St. Marks also, but the pound I bought today says made in Belgium and appears to have been made 8/23. Hodgdon's website shows 2230 in USA and X-Terminator from Belgium, and their tech person just indicated that 2230 has flash suppressant and X-Terminator has both flash and copper reducers. Load data from Hodgdon shows to be identical, but that may be dated from the time when they were. I doubt the differences are bigger than they would be from one gun to another so I'm not worried about where to start or anything. It seems like one would be a good substitute for the other. Right now, A2230 seems to be a lot easier to find.

 

[LiveLife]

If the X-Terminator works out the best for 55 gr. in 223, I'll be looking for 8#'ers in the $300 range, but it's got to beat out Benchmark, H335, and StaBall Match first.

When I was looking at other powder options around Benchmark/H335 burn rate, found the following on powder burn rate chart - https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/updatedburnrateschart-1.pdf

• Benchmark
• H335
• X-Terminator
• A2230
• A2460
• 8208 XBR
• AR Comp
• TAC

When Benchmark/8208 XBR/AR Comp became non-existent, I considered X-Terminator also. Here's Johnny's Reloading Bench testing of X-Terminator.

223 Rem - 70gr Nosler RDF with 8208 XBR & X-Terminator

Testing the 70gr Nosler RDF with IMR 8208 XBR and Ramshot X-Terminator.UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with YouTube content polici...

www.youtube.com

In the end, I decided to stay with H335 for 55/62 gr and ordered more H335 from Natchez along with TAC (Instead of AR Comp/H4895) for 69/75 gr added to BL-C(2) and StaBall Match I have on hand. I thought about ordering N133/N135/N140/N540 but wanted to do 0.1 gr incremental powder workup with H335/TAC/BL-C(2)/StaBall Match first.

 

[AJC1]

When I was looking at other powder options around Benchmark/H335 burn rate, found the following on powder burn rate chart - https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/updatedburnrateschart-1.pdf

• Benchmark
• H335
• X-Terminator
• A2230
• A2460
• 8208 XBR
• AR Comp
• TAC

When Benchmark/8208 XBR/AR Comp became non-existent, I considered X-Terminator also. Here's Johnny's Reloading Bench testing of X-Terminator.

223 Rem - 70gr Nosler RDF with 8208 XBR & X-Terminator

Testing the 70gr Nosler RDF with IMR 8208 XBR and Ramshot X-Terminator.UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with YouTube content polici...

www.youtube.com

In the end, I decided to stay with H335 for 55/62 gr and ordered more H335 from Natchez along with TAC (Instead of AR Comp/H4895) for 69/75 gr added to BL-C(2) and StaBall Match I have on hand. I thought about ordering N133/N135/N140/N540 but wanted to do 0.1 gr incremental powder workup with H335/TAC/BL-C(2)/StaBall Match first.

I stuck with the 100 series single base vhit powders. Is the velocity difference added value in the 500 series added value in your shooting? My theory was cooler flame front temperatures for longer barrel life but I've seen absolutely zero testing comparing them. The 500 series was 10 more a pound, that made my decision easy.

 

[LiveLife]

I stuck with the 100 series single base vhit powders. Is the velocity difference added value in the 500 series added value in your shooting? My theory was cooler flame front temperatures for longer barrel life but I've seen absolutely zero testing comparing them. The 500 series was 10 more a pound, that made my decision easy.

If VihtaVuori powders stay comparable in price (Or lower currently) to Alliant powders and on par with Hodgdon/IMR/Accurate/Ramshot powders, I will start my comparison testing (In exhaustive 0.1 gr increment using portable reloading setup to identify accuracy nodes).

BTW, current listing of powder prices (Yes, 8 lbs of N110 is $224 compared to 8 lb of 300 MP at $349 and TAC is $33/lb or $264/8 lbs compared to 8 lbs of AR Comp at $439 recently price dropped from $479 ... Yikes) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12809906

 

[MarshallDodge]

I stuck with the 100 series single base vhit powders. Is the velocity difference added value in the 500 series added value in your shooting? My theory was cooler flame front temperatures for longer barrel life but I've seen absolutely zero testing comparing them. The 500 series was 10 more a pound, that made my decision easy.

I've been testing N540 in 223 behind 77 and 80 grain bullets. A local guy had quite a bit for $28/lb which put me over the edge. The weather hasn't been the best for setting up a chrono as there is over a foot of snow at the range right now.

Last weekend I was down in Nevada and shot out to 1100 yards on steel targets with the 80 grain load. The wind was rough but I was able to get some hits at that distance, and the velocity looked very consistent.

 

[MarshallDodge]

If VihtaVuori powders stay comparable in price (Or lower currently) to Alliant powders and on par with Hodgdon/IMR/Accurate/Ramshot powders, I will start my comparison testing (In exhaustive 0.1 gr increment using portable reloading setup to identify accuracy nodes).

BTW, current listing of powder prices (Yes, 8 lbs of N110 is $224 compared to 8 lb of 300 MP at $349 and TAC is $33/lb or $264/8 lbs compared to 8 lbs of AR Comp at $439 recently price dropped from $479 ... Yikes) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12809906

If your load is so sensitive that .1 grains will move the needle, you may want to consider a different powder.

 

[LiveLife]

If your load is so sensitive that .1 grains will move the needle, you may want to consider a different powder.

Oh, I agree with you.

I am doing the 0.1 gr "exhaustive" incremental powder workup as "myth busting/confirming" of identifying accuracy nodes as many reviews/workup I have seen did not repeat range testing for verification of powder charge ranges when obvious accuracy nodes were not identified. (I am thinking about illustrating comparison between .3-.5 gr ladder vs 0.1 gr results)

And my loads were developed with 1:9 twist HBAR 5.56 and 1:7 twist .223 Wylde heavy barrels and recently built 18"/20" 1:8 twist fluted heavy barrel .223 Wylde uppers for comparison as 1:8 .223 Wylde barrels are becoming more popular and wanted to see how 1:8 twist did with range of 55/62/69/75 gr bullets.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I was an AR Comp fan but it disappeared for a long time. I was loading .223 for a precision rifle and it worked very well. I bought 8lbs of W748 to replace it. Haven't used it yet but I think it was less than $175/8lbs when I bought it. Not sure what it is now, I'm afraid to look.

 

[slickracer]

If you can't find Titegroup, High Gun is the same powder marketed for shotshell reloading. Picked up an 8 pounder for $239 last week.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Oh, I agree with you.

I am doing the 0.1 gr "exhaustive" incremental powder workup as "myth busting/confirming" of identifying accuracy nodes as many reviews/workup I have seen did not repeat range testing for verification of powder charge ranges when obvious accuracy nodes were not identified. (I am thinking about illustrating comparison between .3-.5 gr ladder vs 0.1 gr results)

And my loads were developed with 1:9 twist HBAR 5.56 and 1:7 twist .223 Wylde heavy barrels and recently built 18"/20" 1:8 twist fluted heavy barrel .223 Wylde uppers for comparison as 1:8 .223 Wylde barrels are becoming more popular and wanted to see how 1:8 twist did with range of 55/62/69/75 gr bullets.

The 69 and 77 SMK have a great reputation.

Nosler and Hornady get close. The 62 BTHP from Hornady is the best cost/performance that I have used.

RMR can turn in some decent groups. Good enough for most applications.

If you don't have wind, the 52/53 match bullets can print some outstanding groups.

 

[Walkalong]

I need some BE-86. I bought a one pounder to try and it's the bomb in midrange .357 Mag loads. A couple of pounds would hold me a good while.

 

[nettlle]

<edited-political> years ago I bought enough Bullseye for my 9mm and 45acp @ $18.00 a pound to last many years. IMR4064 I am still buying as I need it. At the prices for IMR4064 I can't bring myself to order large quantities. I don't substitute powders (yet).

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

<edited> years ago I bought enough Bullseye for my 9mm and 45acp @ $18.00 a pound to last many years. IMR4064 I am still buying as I need it. At the prices for IMR4064 I can't bring myself to order large quantities. I don't substitute powders (yet).

My mistake was thinking pistol and shotgun powders would be the most vulnerable to inflation and shortages. There’s just too many places making rifle powders. I didn’t count on the USA shipping billions of rounds of loaded rifle ammunition overseas in order to create a foreign entanglement.

 

[nettlle]

A lot of us are old hands at scrounging and keeping our powder supply at an acceptable level. I agree politics is the major factor in the supply/demand. Didn't used to be that way. It's a shame.

 

[CoalTrain49]

<edited> years ago I bought enough Bullseye for my 9mm and 45acp @ $18.00 a pound to last many years. IMR4064 I am still buying as I need it. At the prices for IMR4064 I can't bring myself to order large quantities. I don't substitute powders (yet).

That was me. I purchased 20 lbs of powder and 15K primers 4 years ago. <edited - political> . The problem is still here based on availability and prices that are 2x what they were 4 years ago. Seemed excessive at the time but not now. I'm not looking for powder or primers.

Moral of the story. You can never have too much powder or too many primers. Stock up now with whatever works.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?

Absolutely.
I always shot IMR4350 for both .30-06 and .243.
Can't find it and the rare times I do, it's $60/lb or so.
I was at Sportsman's Warehouse the other day and found N540 and picked up a pound. Payed too much, but I needed powder.
I've played with it in the .243 and have a great load worked up. Will start working with the '06 before next deer season.

 

[Frulk]

^^^What Coal Train said above…kinda what happened to me. I’m not in a position to have to worry for a while about replacing powders. Stacked up on Unique, 2400, 296, #2-5-7-9 and a few others (MP3000/Power Pistol etc). Heck, I have 10 pounds of Trail Boss which will prob last me for the rest of my life at the rate I shoot it.

 

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Heck, I have 10 pounds of Trail Boss ...

I thought Trail Boss was very popular but it hasn't been available for quite some time. I think it's an ADI made powder and it seems like everything made by ADI is hard to get these days. I was hoping for more stability with primers and powder post-Covid but that was apparently wishful thinking.

 

[Random 8]

I was hoping for more stability with primers and powder post-Covid but that was apparently wishful thinking.

Yes. I was in the same boat. Used a few subs for practice and blammo, worked up a good alternative for medium speed .30 Cal rifle Garand suitable, waiting for better pricing and availability to stock. Hit the wall about a month ago and said screw it on powder. I did grab my shotgun powder at a good time looking at the current price of WST. I took the rumors of 2024 pricing seriously and I'm glad I did. Paid more than I wish for primers, but I have them now. Should be good for another 4 years or so. Hopefully things get better by then! For now I'm stuck with a metric butt load of stupid 1lb cans of rifle powder. At least they work good for bulk 9mm. One AA can full is about as much as I wish to shoot in a range session.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Are we still supposed to be practicing patience and not buying so the prices will come down?

 

[Random 8]

. IMR4064 I am still buying as I need it. At the prices for IMR4064 I can't bring myself to order large quantities. I don't substitute powders (yet).

Give AA 4064 or AA 2495 or Viht N140 a try if you can find them. I have sworn by IMR4064 for over a decade, and I like any of these 3 for the same applications. AA2495 seems to do better in the higher loading densities. AA4064 and VN140 act very much like IMR 4064. I held out for that one to come back for 4 years, but did the workups with the AA versions last year as my last 8lb can of IMR was getting light(I used VN140 back when it came in 2lb cans so I know how that one works.).