Powder selection choices and substitution reality for 2024

LiveLife

LiveLife

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When I retired on 4th of July 2019, I thought several 8 lb jugs of W231/HP-38, Promo/Red Dot, Sport Pistol and BE-86 would take care of .380Auto/9mm/40S&W and 45ACP calibers I planned to reload into retirement. For .223/300BLK/.308, my choices were H335, A1680, H110/W296, H4895 and Varget. Fast forward to 2024 after gifting/paying it forward most of my powder stock during post Covid shortage, I have been able to source on a group buy No. 2, Titegroup, H335 and BL-C(2) most of which were PIF to others in desperate need for powder.

By now, I figured prices and inventory would somewhat return back to "normal" but war in Ukraine may have contributed to extension of shortage. And while inventory has improved with Alliant powders having been non-existent, perhaps affected by the sale of Vista Outdoor/Federal/CCI/Speer/Alliant Powders, they are becoming more available but my preferred Alliant powders like Promo, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, BE-86, AR Comp all have gone up in price.

No, I won't pay $60 for a pound ($479/8 lbs) of AR Comp even though it may produce smaller groups than Benchmark (Heck, even some VihtaVuori powders are cheaper than Alliant powders now). I have been wanting to try Benchmark for some time with report of group size smaller than H335 but it's now $367/8 lbs - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12806760

On a recent 3 county sweep, only powder I was able to find that I wanted to try was StaBall Match and I paid $59/lb ... Wow.

So ... I am getting ready to do another group buy to alleviate HazMat/shipping charges but I am having second thoughts about powder selection choices and considering substitution referencing same/comparable powders thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/

Pistol powders:
  • W231/HP-38 - I will keep it as general purpose reference pistol powder as 8 lb prices have been more reasonable than other popular powders
  • Promo/Red Dot - While I liked this powder for blowback action PCC loads, I am considering substituting with No. 2/Clean Shot (I have some No. 2 so I will do some testing before I place my powder order)
  • Sport Pistol - I already have Titegroup on hand and may consider going back to N320 if pricing is good enough
  • BE-86 - I replaced WSF with BE-86 and won't have any problem returning back to WSF for duplicate factory JHP practice loads
Rifle powders:
  • H335 - I will keep it as general purpose reference .223 powder as 8 lb prices have been pretty much lowest of all .223 powders
  • AR Comp - I was considering testing Benchmark but now open to testing A2460, 8208 XBR and TAC
  • H4895/Varget - While I am happy with both, issue is availability and pricing. BL-C(2) is more available at much lower pricing and recently picked up StaBall Match to test for .223 RMR 69/75 gr. Thinking about testing IMR 4064, A4064, N135, N140
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
 
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I am pretty much OK for pistol powder substitutions but as I embark on portable reloading at the range/field for .223 (55/62/69/75 gr) with setup to do "brute force exhaustive" 0.1 gr incremental powder charge testing to identify accuracy nodes, could use your help with powder recommendations for me to zero in for my testing, especially for RMR 69/75 gr BTHP bullets.

BTW, I am using 18" and 20" .223 Wylde 1:8 twist heavy barrel uppers with rifle length gas tubes.
 
LiveLife said:
When I retired on 4th of July 2019, I thought several 8 lb jugs of W231/HP-38, Promo/Red Dot, Sport Pistol and BE-86 would take care of .380Auto/9mm/40S&W and 45ACP calibers I planned to reload into retirement. For .223/300BLK/.308, my choices were H335, A1680, H110/W296, H4895 and Varget. Fast forward to 2024 after gifting/paying it forward most of my powder stock during post Covid shortage, I have been able to source on a group buy No. 2, Titegroup, H335 and BL-C(2) most of which were PIF to others in desperate need for powder.

By now, I figured prices and inventory would somewhat return back to "normal" but war in Ukraine may have contributed to extension of shortage. And while inventory has improved with Alliant powders having been non-existent, perhaps affected by the sale of Vista Outdoor/Federal/CCI/Speer/Alliant Powders, they are becoming more available but my preferred Alliant powders like Promo, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, BE-86, AR Comp all have gone up in price.

No, I won't pay $60 for a pound ($479/8 lbs) of AR Comp even though it may produce smaller groups than Benchmark (Heck, even some VihtaVuori powders are cheaper than Alliant powders now). I have been wanting to try Benchmark for some time with report of group size smaller than H335 but it's now $367/8 lbs - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12806760

On a recent 3 county sweep, only powder I was able to find that I wanted to try was StaBall Match and I paid $59/lb ... Wow.

So ... I am getting ready to do another group buy to alleviate HazMat/shipping charges but I am having second thoughts about powder selection choices and considering substitution referencing same/comparable powders thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/

Pistol powders:
  • W231/HP-38 - I will keep it as general purpose reference pistol powder as 8 lb prices have been more reasonable than other popular powders
  • Promo/Red Dot - While I liked this powder for blowback action PCC loads, I am considering substituting with No. 2/Clean Shot (I have some No. 2 so I will do some testing before I place my powder order)
  • Sport Pistol - I already have Titegroup on hand and may consider going back to N320 if pricing is good enough
  • BE-86 - I replaced WSF with BE-86 and won't have any problem returning back to WSF for duplicate factory JHP practice loads
Rifle powders:
  • H335 - I will keep it as general purpose reference .223 powder as 8 lb prices have been pretty much lowest of all .223 powders
  • AR Comp - I was considering testing Benchmark but now open to testing A2460, 8208 XBR and TAC
  • H4895/Varget - While I am happy with both, issue is availability and pricing. BL-C(2) is more available at much lower pricing and recently picked up StaBall Match to test for .223 RMR 69/75 gr. Thinking about testing IMR 4064, A4064, N135, N140
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
Click to expand...
My philosophy is that I've Sworn off anything sold by Alliant, and anything NOT made in North America with the possible exception of a good deal on blammo powder from various vendors if and only if it shows up.

My uses are not dissimilar to yours in terms of burn rates anyhow. I'm fond of St Marks offerings for most any handgun and shotgun application, as well as boilerplate rifle ammo where accuracy is not top priority, and "good enough" will do.

Powders I presently stock and plan to continue in inventory:
HP-38/W231: All around handgun powder for 9mm and .38 SPL. Can be used for light loads in my .41 or gallery loads in CF rifles. I presently have a supply of Zip to work with, know nothing about it but got a deal. That would be one to consider as well.
WST: Went deep on this one. Shotgun target ammo, .38 and some other light handgun applications. Could also be used for gallery CF rifle
Hodg Longshot: +P 9mm and .38 SPL to duplicate my defense loads for practice. HV shotgun hunting ammo
H110: Pretty solid supply of old stock, before this shortage. I use very little of this powder for full power hunting .41 and .357 mag, if I have to restock at inflated prices, no big deal

Rifle:
H335 (or similar W748, AA2230, BallC, Tac, etc): 5.56 blammo, 7mm TCU, practice ammo in a few centerfires including the M1 Garand and .300 Sav.
AA2495: Live Life...Take a long, hard look at this one. You missed out on the good pricing, but still readily available: All around medium speed rifle powder. I like it better than Varget, etc. I worked a few loads, including 5.56 heavy match with superb results. I have enough to bide my time and look for a deal, and will pay the price if needed for 5.56 match.
AA4064: I went deep on this one specifically for the M1 Garand and SPRG for match shooting. I've found it close enough in performance to IMR 4064 to forge ahead with non-maximum loads in other calibers once my supply of IMR is exhausted. Best accuracy I've gotten in 30-06 is with this powder
IMR 4350: Old stock, I use very little of this, but it is irreplaceable for 6.5 Swedish and .280 Rem. I would pay the price here, but might try AA4350 if available.

ETA, if you missed it in my bullet points. DO try AA2495 to squeeze the accuracy out of those heavy match bullets in 5.56. I've shot Varget for many years in this application. I still have some loads left. In side by side testing, it blew Varget off the table, which is saying a lot considering that Varget load got me my distinguished patch and a high master card which I've since lapsed into master due to insufficient practice. I've got some 75 ELDs loaded up presently, waiting for above zero weather to test for my 600 yard load. Hopefully I can scrub R15 from the list as well! All of the above paragraph involves a box-stock RRA 20" 1:8 .223 Wylde BTW, although I did shoot a couple of NRA high power matches in match rifle class with a K-31 Swiss and diopter sights, and a couple of EIC matches with the M1 Garand.
 
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Random 8, you and LiveLife mirror my sympathy and experience.
My favorite over IMR4350 is RL17. It gives H4350 velocities and IMR4350 accuracy. However, it’s made by Bofors in Switzerland and if available, over $60lb! Likewise I prefer RL15 over Varget. But H4895 gives me better accuracy in the Garands and 75-80gr in 223 NM Ar15.
My longtime favorites, Alliant/Hercules powders and Sierra bullets have run me away for lower priced options. Both have been bought out by new owners…
Try ShootersWorld MatchRifle instead of #2520. I’m led to believe they’re the same, just different lot#’s. Also, ShootersWorld-PrecisionRifle. It’s in the Varget, 4064, H4895 vicinity. It’s more accurate in my 20”bbl REM.700 .308win “Tactical”. Close to 1/2” 5-shots @100yds w/168gr Speer BTHPT Match bullets.
I bought 8lb jugs to include TacticalRifle when the last component famine set in, for bargain prices. They too, have gone up, but not as much as others…
 
I’ve put a good amount of N320 away as well as 3N37 which will work for all my handgun needs unless I get a .44 mag and then will look at N105 or N110,

Rifles are only .223 and .308 thus far and N140 is working great. I’ll look for something else if I start loading 6.5CM or 7.62*39
 
LiveLife said:
When I retired on 4th of July 2019, I thought several 8 lb jugs of W231/HP-38, Promo/Red Dot, Sport Pistol and BE-86 would take care of .380Auto/9mm/40S&W and 45ACP calibers I planned to reload into retirement. For .223/300BLK/.308, my choices were H335, A1680, H110/W296, H4895 and Varget. Fast forward to 2024 after gifting/paying it forward most of my powder stock during post Covid shortage, I have been able to source on a group buy No. 2, Titegroup, H335 and BL-C(2) most of which were PIF to others in desperate need for powder.

By now, I figured prices and inventory would somewhat return back to "normal" but war in Ukraine may have contributed to extension of shortage. And while inventory has improved with Alliant powders having been non-existent, perhaps affected by the sale of Vista Outdoor/Federal/CCI/Speer/Alliant Powders, they are becoming more available but my preferred Alliant powders like Promo, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, BE-86, AR Comp all have gone up in price.

No, I won't pay $60 for a pound ($479/8 lbs) of AR Comp even though it may produce smaller groups than Benchmark (Heck, even some VihtaVuori powders are cheaper than Alliant powders now). I have been wanting to try Benchmark for some time with report of group size smaller than H335 but it's now $367/8 lbs - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12806760

On a recent 3 county sweep, only powder I was able to find that I wanted to try was StaBall Match and I paid $59/lb ... Wow.

So ... I am getting ready to do another group buy to alleviate HazMat/shipping charges but I am having second thoughts about powder selection choices and considering substitution referencing same/comparable powders thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/

Pistol powders:
  • W231/HP-38 - I will keep it as general purpose reference pistol powder as 8 lb prices have been more reasonable than other popular powders
  • Promo/Red Dot - While I liked this powder for blowback action PCC loads, I am considering substituting with No. 2/Clean Shot (I have some No. 2 so I will do some testing before I place my powder order)
  • Sport Pistol - I already have Titegroup on hand and may consider going back to N320 if pricing is good enough
  • BE-86 - I replaced WSF with BE-86 and won't have any problem returning back to WSF for duplicate factory JHP practice loads
Rifle powders:
  • H335 - I will keep it as general purpose reference .223 powder as 8 lb prices have been pretty much lowest of all .223 powders
  • AR Comp - I was considering testing Benchmark but now open to testing A2460, 8208 XBR and TAC
  • H4895/Varget - While I am happy with both, issue is availability and pricing. BL-C(2) is more available at much lower pricing and recently picked up StaBall Match to test for .223 RMR 69/75 gr. Thinking about testing IMR 4064, A4064, N135, N140
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
Click to expand...
I love Accurate. Recommend you try them out. AA4064 and AA4350 outperform IMR variants for me.
 
LiveLife said:
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
Click to expand...
Not really substitutions as much as prioritization of powder I should have on hand.

I exclusively load handguns because I'm too lazy to prep rifle brass...so I stock piled .233/5.56mm, 7.62x39mm, and 5.45x39mm a while back when it was plentiful. The Russian rounds are all mil-sup, but i guess I shold look at picking up some powder for the .223/5.56mm just in case. Referring to your list, i guess I should pickup some H355 and BL-C(2)

I do have odd bottles of Hp-38, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, WST, and Titegroup, just because they were used for testing and never got used up. I still have a half jug of BE-86 because it is so versatile, but my main powders are:

Clays - my default powder for .38Spl and recently for .45ACP
N310 - has become my favored powder for RMR 147gr HMW ; although I originally got it for 200gr .45ACP loads. Plus VV powders are a very good value right now as the price of domestic powder are on the upswing
N320 - for 9mm 124gr loads
Alliant e3 - was my domestic substitute for N320 when prices were reversed

Powders I have but haven't tried yet:
W244 - just added when it was on close-out; supposedly the replacement for W231/HP-38
3N37 - won it at a match
Shooter's World Clean Shot - another really good buy, intended for 9mm for my PCC (which I never shoot)
 
LiveLife said:
  • Promo/Red Dot - While I liked this powder for blowback action PCC loads, I am considering substituting with No. 2/Clean Shot (I have some No. 2 so I will do some testing before I place my powder order)
Click to expand...

No. 2 is a nice powder. I like it a little more than Clean Shot. They can sub for Red Dot in many applications but they offer much less case fill, something rather desirable in the revolver rounds.
 
I like and use several Alliant powders for my handguns, but refuse to pay the current high prices for any more. I'm flush with Blue Dot but have been considering expanding my use of BE-86, and will I hurt when I'm out of 2400. Hodgdon and Accurate powders fill in the gaps for me nominally.

LiveLife said:
And while inventory has improved with Alliant powders having been non-existent, perhaps affected by the sale of Vista Outdoor/Federal/CCI/Speer/Alliant Powders, they are becoming more available but my preferred Alliant powders like Promo, Bullseye, Sport Pistol, BE-86, AR Comp all have gone up in price.
Click to expand...

Random 8 said:
My philosophy is that I've Sworn off anything sold by Alliant,
Click to expand...
 
LiveLife said:
Anyone else going through powder selection choices/substitutions due to availability or price increase?
Click to expand...

No, I learned that lesson back before Clinton signed the AWB. I’d rather someone figure out what to do with it when I’m dead than go without. I have some that are no longer produced, so when they are gone that’s it but they are also not the only ones that could work In any given round.

One should always have at a minimum, two POTUS terms on hand...
 
LiveLife said:
  • H335 - I will keep it as general purpose reference .223 powder as 8 lb prices have been pretty much lowest of all .223 powders
  • AR Comp - I was considering testing Benchmark but now open to testing A2460, 8208 XBR and TAC
  • H4895/Varget - While I am happy with both, issue is availability and pricing. BL-C(2) is more available at much lower pricing and recently picked up StaBall Match to test for .223 RMR 69/75 gr. Thinking about testing IMR 4064, A4064, N135, N140
Click to expand...

I've already substituted TAC for H335. For a while, it was less expensive, but H335 seems to have, actually, come DOWN in price. I still have 10# of H335, so it's not like I'm in desperate straits. TAC has shown to be a very good 'bridge' powder... that is, I've substituted it for both H335, IMR3031, IMR4895, and even IMR4064 in that many applications, and I think it would make a good substitute for BL-C(2.) The bonus is... it flows well in my measure, it doesn't require Magnum primers, and seems to be available.

As far as pistol powder, there are so many available now, it would be hard to pick a single alternative... the alternate may wind up Unobtanium, or at a higher price as soon as tomorrow.

My tactic has been to wait patiently for the powders I like to come available, buy 8# jugs of it, in combination with another powder or two I need, and hopefully the stars align and they have a 'no HazMat' event going on. I have been known to just buy powder off the shelf at the LGS... sometimes beggars can't be choosers.
 
During the past several years I have picked up alternative powders. While I still have a small amount of the old standbys:
Pistol: HP-38, Unique, Bullseye, Universal, Power Pistol, W-296
Rifle: formerly H-335, IMR-4350, Reloder 22

Now:
Pistol: Ramshot ZIP, BE-86 (bought an 8 lb before prices went nuts), will try Silhouette and Enforcer when 296 runs out
Rifle: Ramshot TAC (switched to it years ago, have a good supply), Ramshot Hunter and Magnum. Wish I would have grabbed some Shooters World AR Plus when it was available for $200 for 8 lbs. Should have bought more of Alliant Power Pro 4000-MR while it was available (and on sale)
 
The Alliant and Hodgdon Extreme extruded powders are stupid expensive right now compared to viable alternatives.
Consider that instead of AR Comp, Varget, or even Benchmark, you can get N-135, N-140, or N-133 for about 40% less when buying 8#. Ramshot and Accurate ball powders are also going for ~$37/lb. instead of $48 to $60+.

For slow magnum rifle powder, LRT is a super bargain in the H1000, Staball HD, Retumbo, US869 burn range.

For pistol, I see good deals on Win 572 and the shotgun powders that work for pistol.
 
UPistol powders:
  • W231/HP-38 - no sub
  • Promo/Red Dot - no sub
  • Sport Pistol - ramshot competition
  • BE-86 - Silhouette.
  • H335 -TAC was super cheap and I have 4 8s
  • H4895/Varget - N135, was my solution and it very closely matched imr 4895. 44.4 imr 44.8 n135 with 150 speer btsp. N140 would be closer to 4064 but I haven't tested it.
 
I'm afraid I'm in the camp of...if I buy this rifle in this cartridge do I have powder or powders on hand to load for said cartridge, if I don't I typically will leave the rifle where it is. I'm just so glad that from 2016 to 2018 I used most of my expendable income to buy reloading components. Powder being the major expenditure. I can't believe powder prices today.
 
AJC1 said:
H335 -TAC was super cheap and I have 4 8s
Click to expand...
Nice! 👍 I am definitely adding TAC to my next powder order.

AJC1 said:
H4895/Varget - N135, was my solution and it very closely matched imr 4895. 44.4 imr 44.8 n135 with 150 speer btsp. N140 would be closer to 4064 but I haven't tested it.
Click to expand...
With VihtaVuori powders becoming more "competitive" in pricing with other powders, I am seriously considering testing N135/N140 for .223 loads.

CarJunkieLS1 said:
I can't believe powder prices today.
Click to expand...
No kidding. While I can "afford" any reloading cost due to unlimited budget for retirement, I just can't bring myself to spend $60/lb when $35/lb powders can produce comparable/smaller groups. :oops:

And right now, VihtaVuori powders are $36/lb ($293/8 lbs) ... Almost no brainer ;) https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.910908/page-23#post-12809240
 
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Chief TC said:
I saw the AA powders I use have gone up almost $20 per pound but they are still cheaper than IMR and H variants.
Click to expand...

This is very true......one of the reasons the Western brand of powders(Accurate/Ramshot) are starting to become quite abundant on my shelves.
Nearly had to change my darn Fruit of the looms the day I saw IMR powders at $63 an elbow....I realized that I really didn't need to try any 4227 with all that Enforcer and #9 on the shelf at $42
 
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