Powders you have given up on?

[35 Whelen]

I notice a few comments regarding the "temperature sensitivity" of W748. I am (and have been) using this powder for years with what I saw was success.

What happens to make this (and any other powder for that matter) "temperature sensitive" and how does that adversely effect performance?



Dan

A powder being temperature sensitive doesn't necessarily make your loads without success. Temperature sensitivity can cause two problems: If you work your loads up in warm weather, in cold weather velocity will likely drop. I learned this years ago when loading for my 257 AI using WW760. I worked the loads upm chronographing them, during mild fall weather. Then during the winter on a 20° morning, shot and chronographed the load again. While the load still shot accurately, the velocity had dropped 200 fps.

Conversely, if you work your load up in mild weather then shoot in hot weather, or your cartridges get hot, chamber pressure may increase.

Temperature sensitivity is something that occurs primarily with double-base powders and to my knowledge, all spherical powders (i.e.- WW748, WW760, H380. et al) are double base.

As I said in a previous post, check out Hodgdons Extrme Line of powders. You'll find their clain to fame is their insensitivity to temperature AND that their all single base powders.

748 - good for magnum shotshell, not so good for pistol

Dude, you got your numbers mixed up. 748 IS NOT a shotgun powder and only a pistol powder if you shoot centerfire rifle cartridges out of a handgun.

35W

 

[noylj]

TiteGroup: not accurate in any of my guns tested to date. Burns HOT.
Power Pistol: some accurate loads, but the lot I have clumps up in the powder measure and is difficult to work with.
Bullseye: May try some more some day, but when I tried it 35 years ago, none of my .45s or .38s shot well with it.
Clays: Very spikey pressure. Too sensitive. OK to very good in light .45ACP loads.

Powders I like:
AA2: very accurate in my .45s and .38 Special Wadcutters. Very good accuracy in light target loads in other cartridges.
AA5: One of the most accurate powders I have found for mid-range 9x19, .38 Super, and .40 S&W. Really shines in terms of accuracy in .40S&W.
Silhouette: Very accurate in .38 Super and .40S&W and works well from light to full-power.
2400: Very accurate in .44RemMag and .45WinMag
Red Dot: Always somewhere between #1 and #3 for accuracy for light to mid-range loads. No pressure spikes. Well behaved.
Unique: I believe that 6.0gn of Unique has been accurate in some 9x19, .38 Super, .40 S&W, and .45ACP loads. Very good with all standard weight .45ACP bullets.

 

[One78Shovel]

I am of the school to limit various brands of powder. Having multiple powder dispensers, or dumping the same between loads, is just more of a PIA not to mention is another gotcha in a chain of events to a bad day.

I have found instead of chasing the pie in the sky, find a powder that fits the bill from 9mm-45ACP. As a result, I could never find a reason to dump Universal Clays. It just does all those calibers (for me) just perfect. One size fits all.

For rifle however, I have only used H335 for 223 and IMR-4064 for my Garand.

-178S

 

[Master Blaster]

Two powders on the dumper list:

Universal clays, and Titegroup, poor accuracy with both powders and excessive leading with cast bullets. Titegroup is good for .32 acp and .380 as it fills the cases most of the way, and I am shooting jacketed bullets only.

Unique is a go to powder for midrange jacketed loads in .44 magnum and .357 magnum, and 9mm, .45 acp full power jacketed loads. I get excellent metering and accuracy from my two dillon measures with unique.

 

[gilgsn]

Unique. Works great in the .45 Colt, and I don't care that it's dirty, but it meters poorly. .
Next, I will try 2400 and Blue Dot.

 

[Slamfire]

I have given up on Blue Dot. Tried it in the 9mm, 38 Spl, 45 LC, 45 ACP, 357 and 44 Mag.

Does not work well at low pressures, horrible extreme spreads on velocity. In the magnum calibers, with magnum loads, it leaded badly. Works fine with jacketed bullets and magnum loads.

2400 is far more flexible.


I really don't like the ball powders AA#5 and AA#9. They shoot well enough but the little powder balls roll out between the Dillion 550B powder bar and horn and make a mess.

The theory that metering better is somehow better on target does not show up over the chronograph. Unique, that horrible, dirty, big flaked powder , gives me Standard Deviations and Extreme Spreads less than or equal to what I get with AA#5.

For pistols, I will stay with Bullseye, Unique, 2400. You can keep the rest.

[SIZE="3"]Kimber Custom Classic 			
					
230 LRN Valiant 5.5 grs Unique lot UN331 1989 Mixed brass WLP (brass)
16-May-09	 high 83  °F		OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"
Ave Vel =	827.4				
Std Dev =	17.63	 	 		 
ES =	85.68				
High = 	871.6				
Low =	785.9				
N =	31				
					
					
230 LRN Valiant 6.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1998 Mixed brass WLP (nickle)	
16-May-09	 high 83  °F		OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"
Ave Vel =	885				
Std Dev =	16.79	 	 		 
ES =	67.26				
High = 	917.8				
Low =	850.5				
N =	30				
		strong recoil   15' foot ejection	
					
	
230 LRN Valiant 6.5 grs Unique lot UN387 6/21/93 Mixed brass WLP 	
18-Mar-07	T = 62 °F		OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"
Ave Vel =	926.4				
Std Dev =	16.64				
ES =	71.16				
High = 	963.4				
Low =	892.3				
N =	32				
	light leading	accurate	centered	hard recoil
		20 foot ejection		
					
230 LRN 7.0 grs AA#5 lot 12599 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
	27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F		
					
Ave Vel =	788	fps			
Std Dev =	17				
ES =	76.3				
High = 	827.5				
Low =	751.2				
N =	13				
					
					
230 LRN 7.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
	27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F		
					
Ave Vel =	829	fps			
Std Dev =	20				
ES =	63				
High = 	863				
Low =	800				
	15				
			
					
230 LRN Valiant 7.8 grs AA#5 lot 12599 Mixed brass WLP (brass)	
16-May-09	 high 83  °F		OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"
Ave Vel =	874.7				
Std Dev =	16.3	 	 	 	
ES =	78.33				
High = 	916.4				
Low =	838				
N =	30				
					
					
230 LRN Valiant 8.0 grs AA#5 lot 12599 Mixed brass WLP (brass)	
16-May-09	 high 83  °F		OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"
Ave Vel =	890.2				
Std Dev =	11.48	 	 	 	
ES =	40.44				
High = 	911.8				
Low =	871.4				
N =	16				
					
230 FMJ (R-P) 7.8 grs AA#5 lot DM Speer Once fired WLP (brass)	
12-Dec-11	 T =53  °F		OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"
					
Ave Vel =	847.1				
Std Dev =	19.59	 	 	 	
ES =	86.17				
High = 	877.2				
Low =	791.1				
N =	14				
					
Accurate but high. 	[/SIZE]

 

[918v]

I need to stop giving up on powders. I give them away and then return to them years later. Then I think why the hell did I give them away?

 

[918v]

I have given up on Blue Dot. Tried it in the 9mm, 38 Spl, 45 LC, 45 ACP, 357 and 44 Mag.

Try it with reduced loads in any bottlenecked rifle caliber. It will shoot half MOA from 1500-2000 FPS, with a 60%+ load density.

 

[hogcowboy]

Blue Dot is on my chopped list. Too much unburned powder. But then I might be unique cause I like Unique too.

 

[zxcvbob]

Blue Dot is on my chopped list. Too much unburned powder. But then I might be unique cause I like Unique too.

Unique is worth having just for loading .380. Everything else it does is gravy.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I like Unique too. I've worked up reliable loads in .38 special, .40 S&W, and 9mm. I've also worked up a fantastic 10mm load with Blue Dot but hot 10mm seems to be about all that Blue Dot is good for.

When I use up the Varget I have I won't get more, can't get a good .223 or .243 load out of it. I couldn't get accuracy out of Titegroup either though to be fair I didn't experiment very much with that one.

 

[bergmen]

Thanks 35 Whelen (neat caliber by the way).

Now you have me curious. I chronographed this load awhile ago out of my X-Bolt in moderate temperatures and have the data (extremely consistent results):

-2843 fps
-2843 fps
-2847 fps
-2852 fps
-2862 fps

Average = 2849 fps

It is cold now (35 F at dawn, mid 60's at noon) and I should go out and chrono these at various temperatures to see what goes. I loaded these at around mid-day so it was around 65 F or so in the garage at the time.

Thanks again.

Dan

 

[627PCFan]

H-4831, never gave anything decent in my 7mm or 6.5x55. Both liked IMR 4831 for whatever reason. Got rid of red dot in my 12 gauge because I got tired of cleaning unburned red dots out of the action. Gave up on longshot for the 12 because its just too loud and shredded wads/blew patterns.

 

[btg3]

CLAYS has worked very nicely for my 7/8oz reduced loads in 12ga.

(Great thread! All info is much appreciated!)

 

[Stormin.40]

Once I use up my lb of Titegroup I won't go back. I hated it in .40 but it is okay in .38 special so I will use it up on my hotter plated bullets loads, Trailboss goes to work on my lead .38 special plinking loads.

HS-6 is my goto powder in .40 it's good to see others like it too. When I started working with it it shot dirty for me, these loads were at lower pressures but still cycled well. Once I found out that it likes a little more pressure and hotter loads I increased the charge a couple of tenths of a grain and it is now one of my cleanest buring powders even with lead!

Great thread, even though ones man's trash is another man's treasure it is good to see everyone's reason for not using powders.

 

[USSR]

H-4831, never gave anything decent...

+1. Doesn't even come close to RL22 in velocity with heavy bullets in my .30-06.

Don

 

[highbrow]

BLC-2. Never could get good accuracy with it. Wolf primers wouldn't always lite it up.

 

[joed]

The only powder I ever hated enough to quit using was Unique. When I hand measured every load it was decent. But when I started using a powder measure that all changed. It would meter fine for a while then throw under charges. Luckily I never got an over charge.

When I mention this problem to others they don't agree. Dillon even has a warning in their manual about flake powders.

 

[35 Whelen]

I've found the key to uniform metering of powder is to keep a constant level in your dispenser/measure. I totally agree that some powders meter more uniformly over a large variation of quantity in the hopper, but keep the level fairly constant on powder such as Unique, and your charges should be reasonably close.

35W

 

[R.W.Dale]

I've found the key to uniform metering of powder is to keep a constant level in your dispenser/measure. I totally agree that some powders meter more uniformly over a large variation of quantity in the hopper, but keep the level fairly constant on powder such as Unique, and your charges should be reasonably close.

35W

Very good advice.

What I do to maintain 100% even and constant weight of the powder column is I place a simple automotive funnel on top of my uniflow and fill it with powder till the it fills the measure and the funnel.

As an amount of powder is dispensed that same amount flows out of the funnel. The sides of the chamber carry the variable weight of the funnel.

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[flightsimmer]

Very good advice.

What I do to maintain 100% even and constant weight of the powder column is I place a simple automotive funnel on top of my uniflow and fill it with powder till the it fills the measure and the funnel.

As an amount of powder is dispensed that same amount flows out of the funnel. The sides of the chamber carry the variable weight of the funnel.

posted via tapatalk using android.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing. The funnel works great.

 

[35 Whelen]

What I do to maintain 100% even and constant weight of the powder column is I place a simple automotive funnel on top of my uniflow and fill it with powder till the it fills the measure and the funnel.

Great idea. I use an RCBS Uniflow and I think RCBS makes a baffle for it, although I don't have one.

35W

 

[R.W.Dale]

Great idea. I use an RCBS Uniflow and I think RCBS makes a baffle for it, although I don't have one.

35W

Neither do I

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[Clark]

I don't use much of what I have. I stopped the LIL'GUN in 357 mag, because it did not smell as good as H110.

Red Dot
Bullseye.... I use it in 45/70
Herter's 164
SR7625
Unique
AA#5
Power Pistol.... I use it 25acp, 32acp, 380, 9mm, 9x23, 7.62x25
HS-6
Blue Dot.... I use in in 223
2400
3N37
800-X... I use in in 40sw and 10
AA#7
N105
Long Shot
STEEL
Enforcer
AA#9
N110
H110..... I use it in 38sp, 357mag, 44mag, 45Colt
W296
LIL'GUN... I use it in 32 S&W Long

XMP5744
RL-7
V-133
AA2200
IMR3031
RL-10
W748... I use it in 30-30, 25-35
H335
RL-12
H4895.... I use it in 260
IMR4895
Norma 203
RL-15
Varget
H414
Re17
H4350.. I use it in 270 and 7mmRM
IMR4350
H4831SC
Re22

 

[gofastman]

Unique...
Jack of all trades, master of none.
(for the calibers I reload for )