Practical accuracy - 30-06 vs .223?

[Benelli Shooter]

I normally use my Remington 700 in 30-06 for coyotes. I do not keep the hide. So, I am not worried about the damage. I have had several people say I should get a .223 because I will be more accurate with it.

All things considered, would you expect the average person to be more accurate with the same rifle (Remington 700) in .223?

Why?

 

[a-sheepdog]

I say that you can shoot just as accurately with a 30-06 as the 223 if you practice. If you don't flinch and know where your rifle shoots, caliber is not an issue. The 5.56 round might have a slight edge accuracy wise, but 30-06 it is easily minute of coyote. Mine is moa at 100 yards and I know where it shoots out to a little over 300 yards. If I can't make an ethical shot, I will wait until I can or pass up the shot. Caliber is not the issue, it is the shooter.

 

[benzy2]

I wouldn't worry about it. If it works so far why change? Unless you notice you are missing a bunch or don't want the recoil of the .30-06 I would shoot what you enjoy and are proficient with.

 

[FlyinBryan]

i have a 223 ar hbar and a springfield garand in 30-06.

i would have to say its 6 one way, and a half dozen the other.

my ar is scoped right now and my garand is not, so i can shoot tighter groups with the ar.

however,,,,,,,,,,,

i did have an s&k mount on my garand just to try it out and shot this:



thats my lifetime best 200 yard group. it also would have been my best ever if it was just five shots, but its eight!!!!!!!!!!!

probably couldnt do it again in a gazillion years to save my life.


it was enough for me to be convinced that the 30-06 holds no punches against any caliber when it comes to accuracy.

lol, its a sixty-six year old rifle, so i would have to say its broken-in.

 

[TAB]

every thing else being equal, the heavier bullet will be effected by wind the least.

 

[moooose102]

practical accuracy really boils down to one thing, and one thing only. the shooter. i dont care if you have a 0.25 moa rifle, if you are a 4 moa shooter, that is all the better it is going to get. most of us are not nearly as good as our rifles without a superb rest. so if you want better accuracy, you are the place to start. when you are better than your rifle (and that may take some time) then worry about the gun. by the way, a really good place to start, if you have not done so already, is to have a good trigger job done to your rifle. it is amazing how much movement that one little action can make when you are aiming a gun.

 

[LTR shooter]

I have had several people say I should get a .223 because I will be more accurate with it.

If you are hitting where you are aiming with the .30-06 I guess that is all that matters. As long as the Yotes are dropping then you are accurate enough! And this comes from someone who owns a few 700s in .223.

 

[benzy2]

.308 does not have a flatter trajectory than .30-06. Its the other way around. The .308 is shorter and fatter which gives a more consistent burn that then allows for better accuracy. In a hunting rifle using hunting ammo I don't see you noticing a difference. Using a match rifle with match ammo the .308 is more accurate, though the .30-06 still shoots very well.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Less recoil means less flinching.

 

[jacob.elliott]

the bullet in the pic looks like a nosler not an amax??????

not to nit pic

 

[ArmedBear]

My old club had a multi-gun charity match that included handgun steel plates for time, no-sling offhand rifle bullseye, and 5-stand.

The offhand rifle shoot was judged on group size, with tie-breakers by score.

I won the rifle shoot one year with my .30-06 hunting boltie, then the next year with a 20" HBAR loaded with .223.

For me, the practical accuracy is pretty damned similar.

As far as inherent accuracy, I got my .30-06 down to a sub-3/4" group the first time I handloaded for it. These were not target-grade handloads, and I didn't even trim the cases, just calipered some until I found enough that were under the maximum safe length. Seems that would be good enough for coyotes. It wouldn't do for shooting prairie dogs at 600 yards, but that's not what you're asking about.

So, buy a .223 if you want, but I don't believe there's any real reason to rush out and buy one for your purpose.

 

[FlyinBryan]

the bullet in the pic looks like a nosler not an amax??????

lol, good eye.

that is a nosler ballistic tip.

its just in the pic to give the target some scale.


ps. just looked at the box the amax's came in and they were actually 155g.

 

[Nhsport]

The 223 will be more suitable for yotes. The big advantage is that when you are shooting at a unknown distance a cartridge that shoots flatter
is a great advantage to the shooter. Both calibers have plenty of power for yotes.
Many shooters will have fewer issues with recoil management while useing the 223 also.
This reasoning is based upon the average shooter shooting the average rifle.
If any particular shooter has a 30-06 that they shoot well They would not gain much advantage by makeing the switch to a 223 unless they have a rifle that they know they also shoot well.

 

[JWF III]

As far as I'm concerned, inherenet accuracy is pure hogwash. Accuracy comes from a combination of things. Specifically the barrel, the action, and how well the barreled action is bedded. That is the starting places for an accurate rifle.

The chambering of the rifle has little to no effect on the accuracy. The cartridge on the other hand does.

With a well built rifle, the (most) accurate load is a balancing act between bullet construction/weight, powder charge, powder burn rate, primer ignition, component consistentsy, etc.

You could take a proven MOA bolt action rifle, load it with the wrong loads, and not get anywhere near 3 MOA. A gun that doesn't like a load, will never shoot it well.

Find a combination that is up to your expectations, and does the intended job consistently, and stick with it. The only reason to change would be if YOUR parameters changed. If you didn't want the recoil anymore, or if you wanted to sell the pelts, those are reasons to change.

Someone claiming that one chambering is more accurate than another, BS. Too many holes can be shot in that argument, it's just not that easy. If it was, there would only be a need for one chambering, for all uses, in the world.

Wyman

 

[Redneck with a 40]

At 400 yards, with factory 165 grain ammo, the .308 only drops 2 additional inches over the 30-06, negligible difference.

 

[mljdeckard]

OR, have someone load you some very light -06 rounds, say, 125 gr or even less, all recoil concerns will go out the window. And it will probably be just fine for coyotes within 300 yards.

My favorite coyote gun is my dad's Remington 700 VSSF in 22-250.

 

[Art Eatman]

Having ruined Ol' Wily's day with both the '06 and the .223, about the only practical difference is how far out you can reach him. However, I've rarely had a shot beyond 100 yards, so it doesn't really matter.

The .223 would have zilch for recoil, but coyotes don't come in mobs like prairie dogs--so the occasional '06 shot's recoil shouldn't really matter.

A good '06 load for coyotes is the 110-grain (Hornady or whomever) bullet and somewhere around 50+ grains of 3031. (Start at 50 and ease on up to max.) It slows down a bit after 200 to 250 yards, but it does horrible things to poor innocent coyotes. If you want to play the Ma Bell game, I'd recommend the Sierra 150-grain SPBT with 4064. I sight in for zero at 200, so that load is six inches low at 300, about two feet at 400 and four feet at 500. Zero to 250, then, it's a case of, "Point it and pull, Hell ain't half-full."

I found that any heart-area hit with any old .223 bullet will end Wily's messing with my quail.

But one thing for sure: Staying with your '06 keeps you tuned up for serious hunting.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

270 is based on the 30-06 case, so it will use the same amount of powder pushing a 150 grain bullet, recoil will be very similair. I wanted a very accurate target rifle that I could hunt with as well, if I ever needed too, so I chose the .308, never looked back. As far as ammo availability goes, I reload my own, have several hundred rounds, so that won't ever be an issue for me.

 

[M&PVolk]

For me, the .308 and .223 are for AR platform rifles. The work great in bolt actions, but I like them most in a Stoner style rifle. The 30-06 is one of the most versatile cartridges ever made and is probably the one rifle caliber no shooter should be without. If you are hitting well with your '06, I see no reason to change.

 

[rcmodel]

The 223 will be more suitable for yotes. when you are shooting at a unknown distance a cartridge that shoots flatter
is a great advantage to the shooter.

But, the .223 doesn't shoot flatter then the 30-06.

Actually, the 30-06 shoots flatter then the .223 beyond 400 yards.
And has much less wind drift at any range.

Most folks can probably shoot a .223 better because of less recoil and muzzle blast.
Not because the .223 is any more accurate, or shoots flatter.
Because it doesn't.

More suitable for yotes is a 22-250 or .220 Swift.
It's like the Hammer of Thor hit them compared to a .223.

rc

 

[benzy2]

Check out this web page where you'll find the following quote

Yep that pages states the best a .30-06 can do using the best equipment is 1 MOA. But if thats true then how could ArmedBear possibly have a .30-06 that shoots 3/4"? Its not possible based on that article. I do think case design comes into play with the absolute last few drops of accuracy. When you look at the 6PPC it works using the same bullets, powder, primers, and rifles as other rounds so the case must make some difference. At that point its a matter of hundredths if not thousandths of an inch, not if the round is only capable of 1 MOA with match loads, match rifles, and match shooters.

 

[BornAgainBullseye]

The worst thing I have ever done is trade my winchester model 70 .30-06 for a milled ak! This was right before winchester closed the doors and the value of that rifle shot up. But anyways I miss the .30-06 because it can do anything pretty well. And go to the walmart and look at the ammo shelf... It is empty except what 2 calibers????? .270 and ...... Wait for it.............30-06!!!! If it is working for you use it!

 

[JWF III]

The chambering of the rifle has little to no effect on the accuracy. The cartridge on the other hand does.

What I meant by the above statement...

In referring to "the chambering of the rifle", I mean what cartridge the gun is chambered for. The same gun chambered in any cartridge will have the same chance at accuracy. Meaning if you handload for optimum accuracy, you'll find that all new Rem. 700, regardless of caliber, will shoot to close to the same accuracy. Close enough that in the field, or with the naked eye, you won't be able to tell a difference. But this doesn't consider the chance for a possible lemon. Withholding those, all else is equal.

When I said "The cartridge...", I'm referring to the actual breakdown of the cartridge. Everything from the brass to the bullet will make a difference. As little as 1/2 grain can drastically change the accuracy potential of a rifle and cartridge combination.

As proof to the latter, I have a Win. Model 70 in .300 WinMag. I continually try to find a better load for it, as I don't reload for it at the time. About 10 years ago I tried Fed. Prem. with the 150gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Expensive ammo, but I tried it. With the first box, I shot 4, 5 shot groups under 1 MOA, from a rest at 100 yards. The best had four bullets touching with one flyer which opened it up to about 5/8 of an inch. Two days latter (store wasn't open on Sunday) I went back and bought 5 more boxes. Each of those boxes shot just as good as the first.

Well fast forward to two years ago, I was down to the last round or two. So before hunting season I went and bought another box of the same ammo (different Lot# of course, after 8 years or so) I sat down to shoot one group before the season started. The new box of ammo looked like a load of buckshot. It shot at around 5-6 inches at 100 yards. It was so bad I couldn't even gaurantee it was sighted in.

The supposedly same factory load, from a different Lot#, opened a sub-MOA gun up to a shotgun.

I'll stick by my statement that what the gun is chambered for has (a lot) less to do with the potential accuracy than the gun, the shooter and the particular load.

Wyman

 

[marineman]

I expect greater accuracy with the .223 than the .30-06 due to the fact that less recoil generated by the .223 eliminates the tendency to flinch and make other errors when firing. That being said, good shooters can shoot either caliber to within the same degree of accuracy.

 

[Art Eatman]

marineman, the problem is that the practical difference is zero. It's easy to get a .223 to shoot 1/2 MOA--but it's not difficult to get an '06 to shoot 3/4 MOA. Since this thread is about hunting and not about target shooting, IMO a half-inch difference at 200 yards is meaningless.