Prevalence of Asperger's Syndrome Among Gun Nuts

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Ooh, the Myers-Briggs...it must be good, it's got 16 categories instead of just 12 like astrology. ;)

I said this at buffet luncheon one day during a statewide conference. The stranger across the table who'd asked me my opinion of the Myers-Briggs got a big laugh out of my answer - he was the keynote speaker that afternoon and his specialty was, you guessed it, the M-B.

These so-called diagnostic checklists are a bad joke. I get paid to know these things.

I. R. Expert
 
I'm curious to see how people who have a lot of Asperger's Syndrome symptoms would to in a chat room or IRC or something. There is a High Road IRC that is pretty quiet most of the time, but there are a couple of people in there sometimes, myself included.

I wonder how the interaction would be when reduced to realtime text, and excluding all the face to face aspects of conversation. In one way, I think it might be easier, not having to worry about eye contact, innuendo, tone of voice, etc.

On the other hand, I think it might be harder because with text you have to do a lot of "inferring" what someone means, and humor, sarcasm and hyperbole are rampant on most IRC channels I frequent.

-James
 
There is a big difference between Aspergers and 'socially uncomfortable' or even inept.

My niece is, literally, incapable of following subtlety in conversation or interpersonal relationships. Emotionally-laden turns of phrase, expression or nuance not only escape her, they are as incomprehensible to her as sound to a deaf person.

- Gabe
 
I scored a 34. Great, at least I have an excuse now. I do definately lean that way. Just not to the point that it really interferes with my life.

Now, I must gather all the information on Asperger's Syndrome I can find!
 
My son was recently diagnosed with high function Autism, specifically Asperger's Syndrome. This diagnosis was confirmed by a developmental pediatrician. I took the test and scored 40; which was the upper limit. The Doctor's tell me that I am probably autistic as well. The criteria certainly fits me. I learned to adapt as a child because no one knew what it was. I can tell you that as a child I knew every last detail on WWII aircraft. I was particularly fascinated by the F4U Corsair. I have read a lot about this disorder and have come to realize that it's a label for a particular personality type, not so much a disorder.
 
I like to master things - whatever, to the highest level of which I'm capable - mentally, that's pretty high, physically/coordination-wise, not so high (better at benchrest than at combat pistol, for instance). Then I get bored with 'em.

Benchrest is still a bitch, so it's still interesting. But the quest for the perfect handload isn't as thrilling as it was.

I wonder what's next...

I don't like theory, unless you can whup up on it with geometry-style theorems - Stuff has to be concrete and prove-able, visible, or I have problems with it.

Right now, trying to break myself of what I got into when I got moved from a private school to a government school - I realized I got picked on less if I talked/behaved like the jock types... So I assimilated those behaviors. Give me a few weeks, and I'll pick up accents, etc., too... And lose 'em faster.

I wonder - I don't remember any questions about "do/did schoolmates take advantage of you?" I'd bet that the universal response from positive subjects would be "yes."
 
I have read a lot about this disorder and have come to realize that it's a label for a particular personality type, not so much a disorder.
Click to expand...
Maybe at the entry-level it is. At the level my niece is at, it is most certainly not a 'personality type'.

I completely agree that people with certain personalities may have Asperger's-like tendencies or traits, or even have a touch of the syndrome, but it goes way beyond 'quirkiness' or a tendency towards detail.

- Gabe
 
On the first test I scored a 12, whatever that means.


On the Jung Typology Test at Human Metrics I scored as follows:

Your Type is
INTP = Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, & Perceiving

Strength of the preferences %
Introverted: 22 Intuitive: 56 Thinking: 33 Perceiving: 22

Qualitative analysis of your type formula

You are:
slightly expressed introvert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

moderately expressed thinking personality

slightly expressed perceiving personality


Interesting test.
 
I work with a guy I swear is autistic.

He's got an incredible memory. He can also concentrate on what he does (something that most people would find extremely tedious) for 8 hours or more straight. Yet I've watched him take over 30 minutes of hard effort to get things figured out after he was interrupted in the middle of a simple task.

He can tell jokes, and they're usually pretty good, but he surprises you with them--they don't come in context. In spite of his excellent memory, he seems to have real difficulties navigating in his car--even in an area he's very familiar with.

He has to tell you everything multiple times, and correspondingly, you have to tell him things multiple times before they "sink in" for lack of a better term. This isn't a matter of comprehension--it's more like warming him up to the idea. When he gets going on a topic it's almost literally painful. One of my other coworkers has to leave the area when this guy gets on a roll.

A former co-worker wrote him up a book of procedures and he still follows it religiously even though his job has not changed significantly in over a decade. He adds to it when even minor things change.

He can take up to 30 seconds to respond to simple comments. Some people think he's ignoring them, but he just hasn't responded yet. He gets extremely irate when someone asks him several rapidfire questions because of this delayed response trait.

He's a marvel at what he does--bordering on inhuman, but he's interestingly inept at other remarkably simple things.
 
Okay - went back, retook it. Tried to go fast, be honest with myself.

Brutal.

31.

Now, the real question is - how can I harness what I thought were weaknesses that I just had to overcome, but which may be traits that are hard-wired, but may have other associated benefits? I have genius-level IQ, but I tend to either focus too closely, or completely blow stuff off.
 
"...but it goes way beyond 'quirkiness' or a tendency towards detail."

Keep telling them Gabe.


JoeRapture - I knew all the details of the WWII ships and read Andersonville in the 4th grade, but I assure you I'm not autistic - a little weird maybe, but I can blame most of it on being an only child with a redheaded mother. ;) You might be surprised by how often diagnoses change when a person is seen by different doctors/diagnosticians over a period of years. I've been in the business for 30 years and have seen a lot of progress as well as false starts.

JohnKSa - About this "...you have to tell him things multiple times before they "sink in"" But they do sink in. My first guess would be that he has an auditory processing problem and a few other issues that remind me of a recently retired coworker. He was a one-step-at-a-time linear thinker who didn't respond well to interruptions and made delayed responses when asked a question. He taught himself programming in the early 80s though, but just didn't get jokes most of the time.

Anyway, a diagnosis is just the beginning. The challenge is figuring out the person's like and dislikes and just what they're willing to do with what they have to work with.

John
 
I shouldn't keep posting on this thread, but it's dredged up a LOT of experiences from my past... so I sorta feel I have to.

I have read a lot about this disorder and have come to realize that it's a label for a particular personality type, not so much a disorder.
Click to expand...

Personality type?! Dude, hunkering down in a closet for hours is not a "personality type" -- it's a disorder. Perhaps a MINOR one, but a disorder!

When the slightest break in a "pattern" happens, and society's apparent disregard for "reality" ignores this causes you to break down in tears and absolutely postively lose control of yourself this isn't a "personality" thing. It happened to me in the 5th grade. Over a math problem. It was about borrowing money and paying back less than you owed... what was the debt? My feeble little mind was accumulating debt over the months as the problem went on, but my answer was always "wrong" -- how the teacher didn't notice the pattern of my thinking I don't know. Completely unable to wrap my head around the "logic" of the class and instructor I broke down in tears and lost it. This is directly related to "symptons" of AS... call it a personality type if you want.

Personality type my rear end. "Hyper" is a personality type and "quiet" is a personality type. Seeing a "crack" in reality that confuses the living crap out of you and makes you go hysterical is NOT A PERSONALITY TYPE! It's a freaking disorder!

Yes, there are varying degrees of this. Yes, I am probably on the LOW end of the spectrum. Hopefully your son is much lower than I, because banging your head against the wall slowly in the dark isn't a 'personality type'.
 
Now, the real question is - how can I harness what I thought were weaknesses that I just had to overcome, but which may be traits that are hard-wired, but may have other associated benefits? I have genius-level IQ, but I tend to either focus too closely, or completely blow stuff off.
Click to expand...

Well, step one would be to respond to every social question with the grace of Ralph Wiggam from the Simpsons. For a week respond to "How are you?" and such with things like "I like flowers!" or "I took shower this morning!" This will alienate you from just about everybody in the world and cut down your social life considerably.

However the REAL trick is being able to convince yourself that what you said was actually perfectly normal. Failure to do so would mean you'd actually devote brain time to acting more socially acceptable.

After you've pretty much disolved yourself from society and no longer associate with them "people" things pick a science related hobby that'll actually make you some money. Spend a few years doing this and nothing but this in your free time. This will also aid in your inability to function with actual people. Helps with the studies, I must say.

For bonus points add in 10 years of getting your behind smacked around by every predator your size, with a dash of an 18 year old scaring the crap out of an 8 year old for variety. You're socially inept, remember? You don't KNOW this is jacked up.

Next, dig your butt out of this hole and start to deal with your problems that nobody knew you had, apparently, and start making a functional human being out of yourself with that vast knowledge in some field or another.

Its real real fun! Results 10% (not a typo) guaranteed!
 
jamz,

I wonder how the interaction would be when reduced to realtime text, and excluding all the face to face aspects of conversation. In one way, I think it might be easier, not having to worry about eye contact, innuendo, tone of voice, etc.

On the other hand, I think it might be harder because with text you have to do a lot of "inferring" what someone means, and humor, sarcasm and hyperbole are rampant on most IRC channels I frequent.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point -- that's how people with AS see normal conversation! In the written, online, world if I wrote something like:

"The last thing somebody who wants to confiscate my guns is going to see is the business end of my AK! :rolleyes: " -- Imagine that coming from a gun grabber type.

Well, you know where the inflection is and just how "serious" that person is with the "rolleyes" smiley. Somebody with AS sees it without the smiley -- that is, in normal conversation. Body language doesn't work with people that have AS, yet remain functional.

Online is easier for somebody with AS type symptons -- because there's no "guessing" and if there IS guessing as overtones of sarcarsm they're on a level playing field with eveybody else. Sarcasm has to be placed, not by inflection or body language, but on context, knowledge of the person saying it, and probability.

Heck, I screwed up one today.
 
OK, John, Gabe and Justin, I'm convinced. It's a real affliction that causes real difficulties.

What, then, is the best way for us who are dorks, geeks and linear, detail-oriented types and not masters of witty, face-to-face repartee to respond to those who sling diagnoses without medical qualifications? I had a boss once (a lawyer in employment litigation, no less) who set up a meeting for me with a university-run AS/Autism research unit led by a member of her wide circle of acquaintances. The Boss used the "I'm very concerned" routine and, as usual for me, I fell for it. I spent quite a bit of time reading about AS and convinced myself that it might be true (the warnings are correct: always beware of self-diagnosis).

I didn't tell my boss, "No, you only suspect I've got what you've called high-functioning autism because I'm not a flaky chatterbox like you." I went to the introductory meeting and then chickened out before going in for the evaluation. Why? I was afraid that a diagnosis on paper might cause problems for me down the road. What if whole classes of psychological categories become fair game for gun prohibition? Denial of health insurance? Other fun penalties? Unrealistic? Probably, but why take the chance?

John, you wrote (about the Myers-Briggs, et al., if I've read your comment correctly) that
These so-called diagnostic checklists are a bad joke. I get paid to know these things.
Click to expand...
Fine, but I've used that bad joke to get some breathing room when pestered by co-workers or superiors who were the sort who regard anybody who's even somewhat engineer-ish as wrong and unnatural. Got a better approach? I quit that job; that worked for me, but I can't recommend it to everyone.
 
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Giga... I know from where you come... Maybe not as far... But I know.

Was in gifted program for kindergarten/first grade... Then the folks split. Moved. First day in the new (government) school, they put me in a classroom with a buncha kids who were essentially drooling. That was the "special" class. Didn't last. Teachers discovered that I had a bad habit of calling them on what they didn't know - I'd read the text in the first week of school (yup - 1st grade...). Kids aren't as nice as teachers... I wasn't from there - never would be from there. And I can never go back to where I came from, so...

Tried to fit in - talked different, acted different... thankfully, got switched to the local private school -I was a token prod in catholic thrashfest, but most of them weren't from there either... Actually, that sorta worked. I was expected to be different, among the different - really pissed 'em off (especially the penguins) tho when they didn't do as well on the "religion" classes... Penguins hated how I'd read through school days - and they thought that reading an encyclopaedia was unnatural... (but of course, the half-dozen biographies of John Fitzgerald Whatshisname in the library were fair game...).

Then, back to government school for junior high and high school. Rude awakening. It's good to be dumb. Thing is, I was too dumb to figure that out fast enough... Got my ass kicked for about 5.95 years...

College... well...

Transition from high school to college was interesting. I knew the behaviors, and I essentially reinvented myself... After all, once a high school geek, well, you better move outta town... But when I went to college, I knew what to do. Fit in. Hey, I'm your guy - I can fix things... Or I can introduce you... Whatever. It's just introducing myself, etc., etc., that's a bitch... But hey, I grew. Went from 5'8" and maybe 165 to 6'2" and 260... Of course, getting tossed into an athletic dorm helped. Every other room had a weight bench... Learned how to do jock things. Knew every dealer on campus. Every bartender. Everyone who had a party house. Played bouncer/"party host" for a while. Damn, this is almost depressing...

Flippant is good. Flippant works.

Present day to day... Different folks walk up to you a few dozen times a day (I support approx 1,500 folks - mostly scientist types - as a computer geek/graphic designer type), and say, "Hey, how ya doing?" And I've got an answer. "Vertical." On some days it's "vertical and breathing." Depends on the moment.

I don't think about it. It's what they want to hear, and it's sorta funny. It's normal enough, and makes 'em laugh, and they don't get too far into how I _really_ am "doin'." It's customer service - keep 'em happy, and keep 'em from calling someone who can get you fired. Of course today it was "soggy." 4" or so of rain will do that to someone...

"Chuck, could I ask you a question?"

"Yup. Answer's 38." (it's ALWAYS 38 - not really sure why, but that's the answer... really tired of people asking if they can ask a question, because they will anyway, right?) Eventually I break the folks of asking to ask, and they just ask. Then they hear, and hopefully retain.

I work VERY hard to not be a grammar nazi. BTDTGTTS. I don't do that anymore. You can spell, punctuate and conjugate howevertheheckyoufeel. I don't do math well, but damn, I can, and will, with modest encouragement, rock with verbal. Got da license, got da switch. You really want me to, I'll even become quite formal. But that's boring. Der vernacular be much mo fun.

I know I'm not normal. But I can't be abnormal. Being abnormal gets the bleep kicked out of you... Every so often tho, I see myself, almost from a distance, really stepping in it, while I'm simulataneously unable to stop - because it's right...

Of course, working in a scientific R&D environment, I'm damn _near_ normal. Interesting to watch who has lunch together... The support functions and the scientific functions shall never merge. Seems like very few accountants "live" for accounting... Yet I'm a bridge between... Kinda freaky-geeky...

I am normal. You are normal. We're all normal. Just different shades... Can't help it that some folks are essentially colorblind. Pity them, and rock on.

Ahh... And the monastery... Spent the latter part of the eighties playing hacker... Did about a year of 24-36 on, 12-16 off... Lemme tell you, that'll really screw your whole en-bleepin-tire schedule... I do systems very well. Doesn't have to be a computer/software. Take the thing, take it apart, figure it out, make it work, put it back together.

Once got in an argument with a myers-briggs adherent/advocate/disciple... "Would you rather go to a party, or stay home and read a book?" My answer of "take a book to the party, and if things get boring, I'll read" was not acceptable... These people obviously do not understand shades of grey...

This schtick is the first I've heard of this stuff, and most of it hits way too close to home.
 
Oh, there's another test.

It's at www.rdos.net/eng/aspie-quiz.php

Got a 138-now/145earlier on that one.

Am an INTP to boot.
Guess that's why I hated what they did to the Hornblower character in that movie- Horatio was not the sociable type.

I've read that someone suspected Maj Thomas McGuire, the man who arguably got Yamamoto, was aspie, too. As well as being the second-highest-scoring American ace, he was also the engineering and maintenance officer who doubled availability of aircraft in his group (squadron?), and was absolutely hopeless socially.

And for some fun (these really did have me LOL)

Try www.geocities.com/autistry/YMBAAI.html

I had to turn off Windows colors to read that on my browser.
 
Whoops!

I mean the mini-series. Peck was closer in the actual movie, but still not very. Ah well, one should always stride the parapet *as if* unafraid, as an example to his men. The Hornblower in the books often simulated others' social behavior so as to appear normal. I guess being in mortal danger requires a naval officer to simulate coolness even if he doesn't feel cool at all. If you have to practice being on stage for the NTs all the time anyway, it might not seem so different in combat.
 
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