wally
Member
The timid won't retain their Rights and Freedom for long!
--wally.
Private firearm transactions, what personal info on the receipts?
- Thread starter Mike U.
- Start date
- Status
The timid won't retain their Rights and Freedom for long!
--wally.
Mike U.
Member
MANY Thanks to all of you who have enlightened me on this issue.
My fellow Floridians especially.
I know we don't have an official "registration" here in Florida, but I still have to fill out paperwork when I buy a gun from a dealer. And, in the future, I feel that could very well be used as a form of registration, God forbid!
After having my identity stolen last year, I've become all about CYA in every area of my life. This inquiry is just another aspect of that. I've bought and sold firearms among my close friends and family members, but, in my present state, I find I may have to sell some to strangers so I want to make sure I'm doing it right.
Thank you guys again for your excellent assistance!
My fellow Floridians especially.
I know we don't have an official "registration" here in Florida, but I still have to fill out paperwork when I buy a gun from a dealer. And, in the future, I feel that could very well be used as a form of registration, God forbid!
After having my identity stolen last year, I've become all about CYA in every area of my life. This inquiry is just another aspect of that. I've bought and sold firearms among my close friends and family members, but, in my present state, I find I may have to sell some to strangers so I want to make sure I'm doing it right.
Thank you guys again for your excellent assistance!
According to BATF regs you do have to have it transferred by a ffl. FWIW I did have the police come knocking on my door when a pistol that had been stolen in a burglary was used in a murder. They tracked me from Texas to Nevada.I had filed a police report and that got me off the hook.This was ten years after the fact....
M2 Carbine
member
And the problem is??
The answer is,
"Sorry guys, I no longer own that gun. I followed any and all State and Federal laws when I sold the gun and there is no law (in Texas) that says I have to get the buyer's name and/or address. So I didn't".
Mike, I think right there is an excellent reason not to give a stranger ANY information about yourself, especially in a private gun transaction.
I've Googled just my name and stuff came up that I didn't even know.
Mike U.
Member
I hear ya, M2 CARBINE!
That's why I am absolutely elated about our laws here in Fla. now.
This state really is paradise!
That's why I am absolutely elated about our laws here in Fla. now.
This state really is paradise!
nwilliams
Member
I always make out a receipt whenever I sell a gun privately, whether I'm required to or not doesn't matter.
Why? Because if the gun I sell to someone is ever used in a crime and I have no way of showing I really sold, then I could be held accountable. Personally I want as much information as possible about the person buying the gun from me as I can get. Sure you can say to the authorities that you sold the gun when they come banging on your door, but I want documented proof, just to be on the safe side and be able to rub it in their face if they don't believe me. Then again maybe I'm just paranoid
Date of sale
Gun make and model
Serial #
My name
Buyers name
Buyers DOB (if its not obvious their over 18 or 21)
My signiture
Buyers Signiture
Nothing too personal just enough to show there was a transaction made, does it make me 100% secure? No, but its just added protection. I then keep the sales reciept along with my stack of purchase reciepts (yes I keep all of them also) in a lockbox in my home. Mainly I do this out of habit, nothing formal just a hand written reciept that takes all of two minutes to write up prior selling. I think even more I do it because I don't trust the legal system
If the person wanting to buy my gun refuses to give me their information or signature, guess what, they ain't gettin my gun. You don't like it? Well then go buy from someone else. I would say that most of the guns I've ever bought privately I've been asked by the seller to sign a reciept, and I have never put up a fuss or refused to do so because they requested it. Personally I'm more comfortable buying that way because it tells me that the owner of the gun is trying to be responsible and has nothing to hide. Its the same way when I sell, if the buyer doesn't want to sign for it, it tells me that this person may have something to hide. I only base this on my perspective since I have no problem signing when asked because I have nothing to hide. However I do have a limit on how much information I'd give them and if they wanted more information from me than what I would ask from them in a transaction I wouldn't go through with it.
On an additional note, look how the media came down on the online gunstore for selling guns legally to that Va.Tech maniac. If you sold a gun to someone who went out and committed a horrible act of violence like that, not only would the media make you out to be the bad guy but the authorties wouldn't be all that kind to you either. To me the scenario is all too clear. You sell a gun registered to you to someone you don't know, that person goes out and commits a crime with it a short time later and ditches the gun. Later the police come knocking at your door with your gun in a plastic bag asking you all kinds of questions, you tell them you sold the gun, they ask "to who" and "wheres the proof"? With no idea who you sold it to, or any proof that you even sold it to begin with, you are now a suspect in a criminal investigation. Its a hypothetical situation,but a situation I want to avoid at all costs.
Just my 2¢
Why? Because if the gun I sell to someone is ever used in a crime and I have no way of showing I really sold, then I could be held accountable. Personally I want as much information as possible about the person buying the gun from me as I can get. Sure you can say to the authorities that you sold the gun when they come banging on your door, but I want documented proof, just to be on the safe side and be able to rub it in their face if they don't believe me. Then again maybe I'm just paranoid
Date of sale
Gun make and model
Serial #
My name
Buyers name
Buyers DOB (if its not obvious their over 18 or 21)
My signiture
Buyers Signiture
Nothing too personal just enough to show there was a transaction made, does it make me 100% secure? No, but its just added protection. I then keep the sales reciept along with my stack of purchase reciepts (yes I keep all of them also) in a lockbox in my home. Mainly I do this out of habit, nothing formal just a hand written reciept that takes all of two minutes to write up prior selling. I think even more I do it because I don't trust the legal system
If the person wanting to buy my gun refuses to give me their information or signature, guess what, they ain't gettin my gun. You don't like it? Well then go buy from someone else. I would say that most of the guns I've ever bought privately I've been asked by the seller to sign a reciept, and I have never put up a fuss or refused to do so because they requested it. Personally I'm more comfortable buying that way because it tells me that the owner of the gun is trying to be responsible and has nothing to hide. Its the same way when I sell, if the buyer doesn't want to sign for it, it tells me that this person may have something to hide. I only base this on my perspective since I have no problem signing when asked because I have nothing to hide. However I do have a limit on how much information I'd give them and if they wanted more information from me than what I would ask from them in a transaction I wouldn't go through with it.
On an additional note, look how the media came down on the online gunstore for selling guns legally to that Va.Tech maniac. If you sold a gun to someone who went out and committed a horrible act of violence like that, not only would the media make you out to be the bad guy but the authorties wouldn't be all that kind to you either. To me the scenario is all too clear. You sell a gun registered to you to someone you don't know, that person goes out and commits a crime with it a short time later and ditches the gun. Later the police come knocking at your door with your gun in a plastic bag asking you all kinds of questions, you tell them you sold the gun, they ask "to who" and "wheres the proof"? With no idea who you sold it to, or any proof that you even sold it to begin with, you are now a suspect in a criminal investigation. Its a hypothetical situation,but a situation I want to avoid at all costs.
Just my 2¢
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That's totally cool. Just tell me this before I drive an hour and a half to pick it up.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I've never had a problem with private sales.
The only call I've ever gotten from law enforcement was about a year ago. Nothing to do with a private sale.
ATF was calling all the C&R licensees in the area after a shooting in North Augusta with a SKS. I hadn't sold or bought a SKS, told the agent, he thanked me, and hung up. End of story.
The only call I've ever gotten from law enforcement was about a year ago. Nothing to do with a private sale.
ATF was calling all the C&R licensees in the area after a shooting in North Augusta with a SKS. I hadn't sold or bought a SKS, told the agent, he thanked me, and hung up. End of story.
North Carolina
North Carolina requires one to obtain a handgun purchase permit ($5) from the Sheriff of the county in which one lives. this purchase permit allows on to buy one handgun. Another permit is required to buy a second and so on. The NC Concealed Carry permit does away with this requirement as the ATF has agreed that the CCH permit takes the place of the background check which the local Sheriff does prior to issuing a purchase permit. The permit is even required for private sales and stings are attempted to trip up private sellers from time to time. Especially when one tries to sell a handgun via classified adds.
BrianCraig81: here is the URL to the NC firearms laws pamphlet. http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf
North Carolina requires one to obtain a handgun purchase permit ($5) from the Sheriff of the county in which one lives. this purchase permit allows on to buy one handgun. Another permit is required to buy a second and so on. The NC Concealed Carry permit does away with this requirement as the ATF has agreed that the CCH permit takes the place of the background check which the local Sheriff does prior to issuing a purchase permit. The permit is even required for private sales and stings are attempted to trip up private sellers from time to time. Especially when one tries to sell a handgun via classified adds.
BrianCraig81: here is the URL to the NC firearms laws pamphlet. http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf
SteelyNirvana
Member
I didn't see anything about the transfer of long guns, such as with my situation. I knew I had to get a PP to sell a handgun to another individual. I was mainly asking if I should get a receipt or not when transferring a long gun to another person.
Didn't see this yet. In have put both people’s names, addresses, telephones, the weapon’s complete and detailed description, the serial number, I.D. used to confirm who person is. In addition, and most important, I always include the date I sell the firearm, and the exact hour and minute the transfer happened.
Assume for a moment that someone committed a crime in the AM on X day, and sold you the firearm 1 hour later? Hmmm. Bad, bad, bad. If you have the exact hour and minute that the transaction was made, you're covered. Seems like a small detail, but, while it seems terrible to contemplate, it factually could happen. Lastly, witness(es) to the sale.
Doc2005
Assume for a moment that someone committed a crime in the AM on X day, and sold you the firearm 1 hour later? Hmmm. Bad, bad, bad. If you have the exact hour and minute that the transaction was made, you're covered. Seems like a small detail, but, while it seems terrible to contemplate, it factually could happen. Lastly, witness(es) to the sale.
Doc2005
A lot of bombast here, but just about any gun made in at least the last 50 years can be traced if someone is interested enough. The maker's records show the distributor, the distributor's records show the dealer, the dealer's records show the first buyer. Unless the buyer is dead, he can be found and leaned on. He may claim he doesn't know who he sold the gun to, but memory improves quite a bit if the police are really putting on the pressure. And the last owner/user will be glad to rat out the guy he got the gun from, so they play connect the dots.
I don't think I would like to be the first and recorded owner of a gun used in some tragedy and not be able to say who I sold it to. Things could get, to use an old term, "intense", and I hope I would have a good alibi.
Jim
I don't think I would like to be the first and recorded owner of a gun used in some tragedy and not be able to say who I sold it to. Things could get, to use an old term, "intense", and I hope I would have a good alibi.
Jim
351 WINCHESTER
Member
I don't deal with private indivudals anymore. Too much liability. If I want to give my sister or 2 sons some guns there isn't any paperwork or papertrail. I've bought and sold so many guns in the past 40 years there is no way I could possibly remember as to when, to whom. I have sold guns to individuals in the past, but now I don't have to sell any unless I get a lemon and the mfg. can't make it work either, I'll trade it in to a gunshop that I don't care for and let them deal with it.
nwilliams
Member
351...
I'm kinda in the same boat Its been well over a year since I sold a gun to someone in person. Now I go through gunbroker.com or put guns I want to sell on consignment through local gunshops. In either case I prefer the actual transaction be done through an FFL holder.
I'm kinda in the same boat Its been well over a year since I sold a gun to someone in person. Now I go through gunbroker.com or put guns I want to sell on consignment through local gunshops. In either case I prefer the actual transaction be done through an FFL holder.
M2 Carbine
member
That's not so.
If it was worth a million cash to me I could not begin to remember anything about most of the the dozens of guns I've sold to individuals. I couldn't even place the date of sale on most of them within 5 years, much less anything about the buyer or seller.
The ONLY buyers I remember is the people I personally know, that I sold guns to.
I couldn't pick the sellers, of my last four M1 Carbines, out of a line up if my life depended on it.
Like I said earlier.
I'VE BEEN contacted by LEO about one of my pistols being used in a killing and it was simply,
"I sold the gun". THE END.
nwilliams
Member
That may be true in your case but it doesn't mean that every LEO who calls or shows up at your door will be that nonchalant about it. Sometimes its better to be safe than sorry IMO.
It looks to me like we don't need the Brady Bunch to push for gun registration, many of you are more than willing to do it for them through your love of an intricate paper trail and fears of "liability".
The solution is really quite simple. Don't buy new, don't sign papers.
The solution is really quite simple. Don't buy new, don't sign papers.
harbinger_j
Member
why not keep records?
I keep records of almost all of my other transactions. When I buy something (non gun related) on ebay I give my name and address and email... that way I can receive what I buy.
If someone buys a gun from you FTF and wants to steal your identity he could shoot you and take your wallet. If you are going to assume that the person you sell a gun to is not going to shoot someone is it that much harder to assume they won't steal your identity.
You can always be brought in to legal problems if a lawyer or LEO wants you bad enough. If you are following the current laws in your state, keeping a record of that couldn't hurt you.
I keep records of almost all of my other transactions. When I buy something (non gun related) on ebay I give my name and address and email... that way I can receive what I buy.
If someone buys a gun from you FTF and wants to steal your identity he could shoot you and take your wallet. If you are going to assume that the person you sell a gun to is not going to shoot someone is it that much harder to assume they won't steal your identity.
You can always be brought in to legal problems if a lawyer or LEO wants you bad enough. If you are following the current laws in your state, keeping a record of that couldn't hurt you.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Again, I will ask, how do you know if the ID they are showing you is real?
If you are worried about someone's character and think they might be a bad guy, you should not sell to them period, whether they show you a driver's license or not.
I would also point out that convicted felons who are released will have driver's licenses.
How does showing a driver's license protect you, if it could be fake, or if the person is banned from owning guns?
If you are worried about someone's character and think they might be a bad guy, you should not sell to them period, whether they show you a driver's license or not.
I would also point out that convicted felons who are released will have driver's licenses.
How does showing a driver's license protect you, if it could be fake, or if the person is banned from owning guns?
Lone_Gunman
Member
You can legally fullfill that obligation by just asking.
A driver license is not proof of legal residency.
I think you are fooling yourself to think otherwise.
Jim Keenan says:
They could lean on me all they want and I could not tell them to whom I have sold most of my guns, because I simply do not know. They could try bamboo under the finger nails, electric shocks to my privates, water-boarding, and even send me to Gitmo, but I can't remember things I don't know. Of course, before they did all that I would just say I sold them to Jim Keenan.
A driver license is not proof of legal residency.
I think you are fooling yourself to think otherwise.
Jim Keenan says:
They could lean on me all they want and I could not tell them to whom I have sold most of my guns, because I simply do not know. They could try bamboo under the finger nails, electric shocks to my privates, water-boarding, and even send me to Gitmo, but I can't remember things I don't know. Of course, before they did all that I would just say I sold them to Jim Keenan.
M2 Carbine
member
Personally, I kill the paper trail on guns every chance I get.
in Kansas, you don't need any paperwork.
If you're buying, don't expect paperwork. The seller usually wants to have no connection back to them either.
That's the whole point...it's our RIGHT to bear arms. Their shouldn't be any more work than buying a loaf of bread. Right to keep and bear Bread isn't even in America's owner's manual, like the RKBA is.
If you're buying, don't expect paperwork. The seller usually wants to have no connection back to them either.
That's the whole point...it's our RIGHT to bear arms. Their shouldn't be any more work than buying a loaf of bread. Right to keep and bear Bread isn't even in America's owner's manual, like the RKBA is.
dave_pro2a
Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 447
"receipts" BWHAAAAA HAAAAAA HAAAAA HA HA HA HAAAAA
Some folks get brainwashed by the liberal anti-gunners
Step one: pay cash.
Step two: accept firearm.
Step three: part ways.
Some folks get brainwashed by the liberal anti-gunners
Step one: pay cash.
Step two: accept firearm.
Step three: part ways.
- Status
