Problems with Wolf SPP lot #18-09, lack of concern from Wolf

[Rule3]

I have been using Wolf Primers (large and small pistol since the great primer shortage) I have had no problems and often praised how well they worked.

I just cracked open a 2nd case of small pistol primers and have had several failure to ignite in two of my SW 357 revolvers. They have factory springs, not lightly tuned actions.

I read all the threads and posts on problems folks were having with a different lot number so I wrote to Wolf.

The response I got back was the same form letter that others received that they had so many calls and dishonest people took advantage of them that they basically said too bad, so sad!
They told me if I could send them back to them or the company I bought them from they could do something. I wrote back and told them that was not possible as I do not have a haz mat license. They then wrote back that yes it can not be done, Also, in their canned letter they suggested changing springs and or firing pins. Like I should adjust my firearms to accommodate their defective primers.??

I find their lack of concerns, or remedy rather annoying and pretty bad as far as any kind of service. So I am stuck with 5 thousand primers and the money spent, that may or may not work and they could care less.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Their response:

We are sorry to hear about the issues you are experiencing while using our primers. Unfortunately we only offer a guarantee on our ammunition and no longer on our primers. This is in part to us being a little too accommodating with our primer returns.



Sadly we have found that we have been taken advantage of by dishonest customers; since we are not able to have the primers shipped back to us due to haz. mat. laws we have to rely on the honesty of our customers and sad to say they were less then so. Word got out on web forums that WOLF was giving out refunds without getting primers back, this was posted all over the web, in return we received over 300 phone calls from various customers claiming they had thousands of primers they didn't want, this in return caused us to change our policy. We apologize for the bad news but we can no longer issue refunds on them.

A few suggestions that may help; you can try and return it to one of the below distributors and have them call us to verify they received it, if you can manage to do this and we are able to confirm with one of them that they received it, we may be able to help, it will be your sole responsibility however to get them there. Also; we have found that our primers tend to be harder then most domestic made primers, allot of our customers are switching out their firing pins with harder ones, this is allowing them to use our primers without misfires issues:

 

[zxcvbob]

So basically they shifted the blame to you -- they won't do anything because, well, you're probably just a crook anyway.

(I have had no problems at all with Wolf brass- and copper-colored primers. Yours are probably nickel?)

 

[kingpin008]

Sounds like a fair response, form letter or no. It's not like they told you to go pound sand - they explained their position (which is fair, IMHO) and gave you some other options that may resolve the issue for you. What's the problem?

 

[Rule3]

Sounds like a fair response, form letter or no. It's not like they told you to go pound sand - they explained their position (which is fair, IMHO) and gave you some other options that may resolve the issue for you. What's the problem?

What options? And what do you mean what is the problem? The problem is they do not work as they should, but apparently that is my problem now. I have problems with some WWB ammo some time ago. I called Olin and the lady I spoke with sent me a call tag for pick up the next day, tested the bad ammo and sent me a coupon for another box. But I guess that is different as they are a BIG company and no Haz Mat involved.

Yes, they are the nickle (silver colored) primers.

Here is part of their second response to retuning them. They first tell me to return them and then say it is next to impossible.

"and yes, it is next to impossible which is why we do not have returns on our primers...haz mat restrictions don't allow us or you to return the primers...all the large companies who sell primers DO NOT do returns on them, we were an exception to the rule, now we have to do like the rest of the large companies. "

 

[LiveLife]

Hope they address the harder cup issue soon or they will lose a lot of customers (they may have already). I am recommending others buy non-Wolf small pistol primers until they get this issue corrected. It's interesting that no other primer manufacturer requires you to change your striker/firing pin spring if their primers don't ignite in your firearm.

Been shooting Wolf large pistol primers (bronze cup) during the primer shortage with good results (no failure to ignite) and have been buying Winchester primers as they come in stock.

So, if Wolf also used the harder cup small pistol primers in their loaded ammunition (9mm, 40S&W, etc.), does this mean some of their loaded ammunition won't fire either?

 

[rcmodel]

Regardlessof what you say, Wolf is a para-military Russian Manufacture operating in former USSR state owned ammo manufacturing facilitys.

As such, they make, use, and sell military grade primers which are harder then commercial primers we are used to.

rc

 

[Rule3]

Their other primers worked? And from the other threads/posts on the net they themselves "admitted" there was a problem. I seem to remember that in one response they even said not to buy their primers until the problem was resolved

I do not consider Wolf a "small" company, probably not as big as Olin or Remington but they still should be able to back up their products. If they only received "300" phone calls, that is not that many considering how much Wolf product is sold.

So I can send them verification of purchase, a picture of the case of primers but that is not enough verification???

 

[ants]

Wolf doesn't sound unfair to me. I feel for them, and I feel for you.

Sorry, I do NOT read "lack of concern" from their response.
I read, "We used to be totally cool, but got jacked by too many jerks. Sorry, we just can't give out cash any more."

They used to give cash refunds on faith.
And now you're upset because they don't do that any more.
I cannot sympathize with that. No one else gives cash refunds on faith.

I do have sincere sympathy for you as a consumer. You bought 5 thousand primers and you are not satisfied with their performance. You have a right to be dissatisfied. You have several options: Perhaps you can return the primers to one of their distributors, or trade those primers with someone who can use them, or tell the world about your dissatisfaction and move on.

 

[Rule3]

If they really really wanted to, they could arrange pick up Haz Mat and all. Not asking for faith, I have verification of the purchase, they do not want to hassle with picking them up or arranging a pickup location. I bought them through a major reloading business. I sent them copies of my e mails just so they know but it is not their fault so I certainly do not expect them to be involved.

It's obvious from all the web chatter and Wolfs own admission, they have a problem but are unwilling to make it right. I guess that's what class actions are all about.

I'll just jump in the car and drive 2,000 miles round trip and drop them off at the company I bought them from, better yet, drive cross country to California and put them on their desk.

 

[Randy1911]

I bought some Wolf primers in the past. They were large pistol primers. They were very hard to seat. Some of them were impossible to seat. I just gave up and swore to never buy Wolf again. I measured them and they varied a lot in diameter. So I marked it up to a lesson learned. I am glad I just bought 1K of them.

 

[GP100man]

I can see where both sides have legitament claims !

The consumer needin a useable product that`s been paid for .

The company needin proof of failed product .

An impass for sure!!

 

[ants]

I guess that's what class actions are all about.

Good point, OCD. However, I've been involved in four class action lawsuits. All four were won -- by the attorneys. We, the class, got nothing. Absolutely nothing. Even though we won. In each case, the court awarded the attorneys between 9 million and 20 million dollars for two years of work. And we got nothin. I wouldn't even dream that class action is an option here, unless you know an attorney who needs to get richer.

It's not really an impasse because OCD1 chose the option to let the world know about the problem with Lot #18-09. It may not get him satisfaction, but others with that lot number may benefit.

Too bad you're so far away from me, I'd make a trade with you. Those primers should work in a semiauto pistol. Maybe you have some other reloader close to home who helps you out.

 

[EddieNFL]

All four were won -- by the attorneys. We, the class, got nothing.

I got a coupon once.

 

[mrayw]

Wolf primers

I always try to buy cars,firearms,and ammo from American companies. The profits stay in America,my fellow Americans retain jobs, and if a problem arises with the product I can get resolution from an American company!!!
Redwing work boots are still made in America also!!!

 

[Rule3]

Good point, OCD. However, I've been involved in four class action lawsuits. All four were won -- by the attorneys. We, the class, got nothing. Absolutely nothing. Even though we won. In each case, the court awarded the attorneys between 9 million and 20 million dollars for two years of work. And we got nothin. I wouldn't even dream that class action is an option here, unless you know an attorney who needs to get richer.

It's not really an impasse because OCD1 chose the option to let the world know about the problem with Lot #18-09. It may not get him satisfaction, but others with that lot number may benefit.

Too bad you're so far away from me, I'd make a trade with you. Those primers should work in a semiauto pistol. Maybe you have some other reloader close to home who helps you out.

No, I wouldn't even attempt a class action over $100. As I posted earlier and many other times on other threads, I was happy with Wolf primers large and small and even recommended them. I have not tried these primers in any semi autos yet and probably will find some guns they will work in. If not I will not have to buy any fireworks for the 4th this year. I'll just sit in my driveway with a hammer and smash them.

I guess the main point is that Wolf will not pick them up. Really what is Haz Mat Shipping besides a extra fee, and a heavier box and paper work. When UPS delivers them to my house it's no different than any other delivery and they do not handle it any different. How did S&W handle all the Walther PPK recalls, Ruger and the LCP recalls etc, etc.? They sent a box, arranged pick up and fixed the problem. I had Winchester pick up 100 rd box of 9mm that were bulged out the sides. So it can be done.
Wolf probably did a cost analysis and determined it was less expensive to stick the consumer than to pay for pick up and replacement or refund.

I only bought them as they were the only ones available at the time. I have never purchased any Wolf ammo as it was metal I want to save my own brass.

So it's just like bad service or food at a restaurant. I just do not go back. I do not need Wolf, they need me (figuratively) customers/consumers. Folks buy their ammo because it's a little cheaper

So if this thread and those by others prevents just one person from buying Wolf products they loose more than I did.

I'm going to load some 9mm and 40 with the damn things and see how they work.

 

[qajaq59]

I'm going to load some 9mm and 40 with the damn things and see how they work.

Use them in your plinking ammo so at least you'll get something for your money.

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

I do find it disturbing that Wolf's "100% Performance Guarantee" has now been reduced to a "100% Performance Guarantee on only those items that don't suck."

Back in December, I received a batch of 10K Small Pistol Primers with no better than a 95% ignition rate. I explored every alternative before coming to the conclusion that the primers were faulty, and in Febrary, contacted Wolf with my concerns. They refunded my money for the unused portion. I found this to be outstanding customer service, and communicated the same both to Wolf and fellow reloaders, on-line and off.

My opinion of the company has since changed.

I know there are dishonest people in the world, but I find it hard to believe that as many as Wolf has claimed would use the unreliability of one of their products as an opportunity to obtain free primers. I'm now of the opinion that Wolf shipped a product with a far greater failure rate than they anticipated and are backpedaling on their guarantee simply because honoring it would cut significantly into their overall margins.

That's bad business. And it means that I will not be purchasing products from Wolf in the future. I encourage you to consider doing the same.

 

[Rule3]

As I stated. I only purchased them at the time as there were no other primers available. Now that the better brands are back I will buy Win, Rem, CCI whatever.

I will be writing them again on Monday just to advise them on all the discussion going on. Of course they can take it or leave it. Probably just ignore it.

Just bad business in my opinion.

 

[LiveLife]

OCD1, since Wolf wants verification, how about offering to take your primers to another vendor/distributor of Wolf's choice nearby to your location (maybe same town?) so they can conduct the verification?

This way Wolf gets the verification they want and you don't have to hassle with HazMat issue. You won't be simply asking for a check, but you are asking for a refund through a Wolf vendor/distributor after verification of lot number of primers.

 

[Rule3]

OCD1, since Wolf wants verification, how about offering to take your primers to another vendor/distributor of Wolf's choice nearby to your location (maybe same town?) so they can conduct the verification?

This way Wolf gets the verification they want and you don't have to hassle with HazMat issue. You won't be simply asking for a check, but you are asking for a refund through a Wolf vendor/distributor after verification of lot number of primers.

That is a good idea but i do not know anyone who carries them around here. The only big place is a Bass Pro and I don't think they carry Wolf Primers. I'll ask them though. Thanks.

 

[evan price]

I'm into my second 5K case of that exact same lot number of Wolf SPP primers. I have over 20K of other Wolf primers loaded. I really believe that because these take more force to seat correctly than Winchesters or other common primers, people just are not used to the force to get them to seat all the way down and set the anvil right. They do take more force to seat properly. If not seated properly you will get misfires. I can't blame Wolf for this, not when every instance I've heard of on-line or locally has been the fault of the reloader.

I have had exactly ONE fail to fire from a wolf primer and that one was missing its anvil.

I will personally confess that when I first used Wolf large pistol primers, after using Winchester and CCI exclusively before, I had a lot of .45 acp ammo that would not fire on the first shot, but went off on the second. After carefully looking over boxes of my reloads, I discovered a lot of primers that were not flush or below flush with the cases- whereas all of the Winchesters were snugly set just below flush. When I segregated and fired them alone, a large number of the tall primers required a second strike to go off. I blame myself!

Wolf primers are a tad larger in diameter and fit tighter in the pocket than nearly any other brand. I like the tighter seal. It does take more force to push it in and the hand-held primers sometimes have trouble getting them in. I've changed my procedures so that I am ensuring I get a good squeeze to seat them. Since then, no more problems.

I will also concede the nickel-plated primers seem even a tad bit bigger than normal for Wolf. In some pockets (Especially S&B brass) they really have to be crammed in there.

I think if you honestly look at that brass, you will find you may be able to push those primers in a hair deeper.

 

[Rule3]

I am priming on the press. If I pull the lever any harder it will break or bend.
My other case of Wolf SP and LP all worked fine and I am doing nothing different?

But, for interest in determining what's going on, I will try some using a RCBS, and Lee hand priming tool. Heck I'll even clean the primer pockets.

To be honest, these are the first of this batch that I tried with 38/357 loads. I had several that did not fire after three strikes.so it may be only with revolvers. I loaded some 9mm and 40 SW and will see if they work in semi autos.

 

[RandyP]

To mrayw,

Actually my Redwings (stock #1225) are made in China. I chose Redwing to supply boots for my delivery staff on the "buy American" bandwagon. So much for that notion.

Kinda like buying 'All-American' Harley clothes, may of which are made offshore.

 

[Rule3]

To mrayw,

Actually my Redwings (stock #1225) are made in China. I chose Redwing to supply boots for my delivery staff on the "buy American" bandwagon. So much for that notion.

Kinda like buying 'All-American' Harley clothes, may of which are made offshore.

I believe that's called "global expansion" under the History 1970-1979

http://www.redwingshoes.com/

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

I'm into my second 5K case of that exact same lot number of Wolf SPP primers. I have over 20K of other Wolf primers loaded. I really believe that because these take more force to seat correctly than Winchesters or other common primers, people just are not used to the force to get them to seat all the way down and set the anvil right. They do take more force to seat properly. If not seated properly you will get misfires. I can't blame Wolf for this, not when every instance I've heard of on-line or locally has been the fault of the reloader.

So let me get this straight: The fact that the latest batches of Wolf primers are consistently out of spec (at least compared to the vast majority of primers in use domestically) and fit so tightly in the pocket that they can't be seated properly with the leverage provided by a 2' press handle this is somehow the fault of the reloader?