For those with internet gun purchase experience; I found a rifle for a good price from what reviews as a reputable dealer - it will be a “new gun” purchase. This dealer has an “as is, no returns or refunds” policy listed on the sales website. If you open their sales policy, it states that they will not accept returns or give refunds if the gun was transferred, even if not shot - it will be considered a “used” gun after transfer. I have twice e-maied my question about which read applies - no returns? or returns/ refunds if prior to transfer? but with no reply. Even though the gun will be factory new, sometimes obvious flaws/ blemishes slip thru QC - I do not want to be stuck with a lemon. What do you think the two seemingly conflicting policies mean for my potential purchase (if there is a flaw)? Thanks for the help.
Purchase Question.....
- Thread starter Steve S.
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ColtPythonElite
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The dealer is the only one that truly can answer your question.
Jim NE
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I've purchased a few dozen guns online, and have never been burned, though I certainly like some guns better than others...and there may be a couple that I wouldn't have bought if I'd actually seen them in person, but even they turned out OK in the long run. I don't like the "as is" caveat, either, but I can kind of understand it with new guns, as the weapon becomes "pre-owned" once you take possession. Still, places like Bud's Gun Shop in KY - maybe the biggest online dealer in the world - encourages buyers to inspect the gun at the FFL dealer before filling out the paperwork, so that if you find a problem, you can send it back to them. Once you fill out the forms, though, it's a done deal. I think every online dealer should do that, but some don't.
If the dealer has good online reviews they're probably OK, though. That's because the warranty on a new gun is between you and the manufacturer, not the dealer. Even Bud's will redirect you to the manufacturer once you've filled out the forms. I've sent several guns back to the makers for warranty work, and it generally resolves the issue.
If the dealer has good online reviews they're probably OK, though. That's because the warranty on a new gun is between you and the manufacturer, not the dealer. Even Bud's will redirect you to the manufacturer once you've filled out the forms. I've sent several guns back to the makers for warranty work, and it generally resolves the issue.
Hokie_PhD
Member
If they won't answer your questions now I'd RUN from them. My logic is imagine if you have an issue.
After that, make sure that you use a credit card that you can dispute the purchase with. Be sure to use an FFL that you trust. Your might want to check with the FFL and see if they inspect the gun before they accept it. They may be able to refuse it, and then you can have the selling dealer issue a credit to your card, or if you have to go the dispute route, you'll have proof that your purchase was refused because of a problem by the FFL
As for my purchases. I've only used PSA and Primary Arms for online gun purchases and both were excellent. Granted I'm lusting for a new pistol once I finish my AR build, but that's probably in the spring. When that happens I'll have to see who has the best price and decide on who to buy from. But I can assure you that if I'm not comfortable with a dealer, I'll skip them and pay a few dollars more at the next dealer.
After that, make sure that you use a credit card that you can dispute the purchase with. Be sure to use an FFL that you trust. Your might want to check with the FFL and see if they inspect the gun before they accept it. They may be able to refuse it, and then you can have the selling dealer issue a credit to your card, or if you have to go the dispute route, you'll have proof that your purchase was refused because of a problem by the FFL
As for my purchases. I've only used PSA and Primary Arms for online gun purchases and both were excellent. Granted I'm lusting for a new pistol once I finish my AR build, but that's probably in the spring. When that happens I'll have to see who has the best price and decide on who to buy from. But I can assure you that if I'm not comfortable with a dealer, I'll skip them and pay a few dollars more at the next dealer.
B1gGr33n
Member
I've purchased a few guns over the internet, but only ones that have stellar Manufacturer warranties (Ruger, S&W, Taurus).
Otherwise, I recommend you take your time and function check the firearm before transferring. Bring a new snap cap (to check firing pin strike) and a mirror/flashlight to check everything out. If you decide you don't want it, you're probably out the shipping cost but that's it (based on my limited intel via your relay of the sellers return policy stating no refunds after transfer implying the transfer to you, not to the dealer).
Otherwise, I recommend you take your time and function check the firearm before transferring. Bring a new snap cap (to check firing pin strike) and a mirror/flashlight to check everything out. If you decide you don't want it, you're probably out the shipping cost but that's it (based on my limited intel via your relay of the sellers return policy stating no refunds after transfer implying the transfer to you, not to the dealer).
AlexanderA
Member
The typical online gun purchase would involve two transfers -- one to your local FFL dealer, and the second from your local dealer to you. This seller's policy evidently is not clear whether they consider the initial transfer to the local dealer enough to make a "new" gun into a "used" gun. Bud's, on the other hand, seems to consider a gun still in the local dealer's hands to be a "new" gun. Certainly, this all needs to be thrashed out before you place your order.
milemaker13
Member
Can we ask what online retailer your looking to buy from? Hard to imagine someone here hasn't done biz with them.
I can understand both sides of the coin. Your side is well stated.
But now imagine the gun they send you has been shipped to a couple different people, they "inspect" it at their LGS before completing paperwork (rack it, dry fire it, disassemble it, cram it back together, scratch it, drop it, pass it around, etc). Then decide they don't want it so it gets shipped back.... Then shipped to you.
I'd prefer knowing it was minty fresh sealed in its box until I saw it. The obvious damage issue and then dealing with the mfg is the price paid for online discounts vs paying more at the LGS to begin with.
I can understand both sides of the coin. Your side is well stated.
But now imagine the gun they send you has been shipped to a couple different people, they "inspect" it at their LGS before completing paperwork (rack it, dry fire it, disassemble it, cram it back together, scratch it, drop it, pass it around, etc). Then decide they don't want it so it gets shipped back.... Then shipped to you.
I'd prefer knowing it was minty fresh sealed in its box until I saw it. The obvious damage issue and then dealing with the mfg is the price paid for online discounts vs paying more at the LGS to begin with.
I don’t feel comfortable mentioning the name of the dealer; they seem to have a good reputation (reviews on the net) and they have not committed any sins against me. My desire is to simply be able to return the gun if it is factory new “flawed” and get a different one. I asked for the forum’s experience to get a feel for what happens out in the gun purchase world with this kind of dealer language (which seems to contradict itself and was confusing to me). When I get real serious, I will give them a call and ask the questions - thanks to all for your experiences.
Sauer Grapes
Member
I have found most FFL's are genuine. Most of my dealings have been on Gunbroker and Guns America. Sometimes I've had to wait a few days for a response, but generally they were all good experiences.
Don't hesitate to call them. Some shops are small and get overwhelmed sometimes with inquiries. You might have simply slipped thru the cracks.
Don't hesitate to call them. Some shops are small and get overwhelmed sometimes with inquiries. You might have simply slipped thru the cracks.
lysanderxiii
Member
Many times if you have issues with a gun the response from the dealer is "...take it up with the manufacturer....". Not what I consider the best answer, but ultimately that is where the remedy is found.
I think most of the purpose of the "no return, no refunds" policy is to stem the buyer, suddenly finding the purchase didn't pass the wifey filter, wanting a return for a burr on the bottom of the receiver under the wood....
JohnBoy-53
Member
If this is indeed a "new" gun, it will be covered by the mfg's. warranty and you should have no worries about defects.
I work at a gun shop, we regularly take in guns that have been won in raffles, banquets.....etc., that have never been fired, or even out of the box. We can NOT, and WILL NOT list them as new. They had to be registered to the person/entity that won/purchased them. Once they are registered, they become a "used" gun.
If the seller is legit, you should be OK.
Good luck.
I work at a gun shop, we regularly take in guns that have been won in raffles, banquets.....etc., that have never been fired, or even out of the box. We can NOT, and WILL NOT list them as new. They had to be registered to the person/entity that won/purchased them. Once they are registered, they become a "used" gun.
If the seller is legit, you should be OK.
Good luck.
BSA1
member
All guns I sell are "As is no return or refund."
Any gun clerk / store owner can tell you horror stories about the way guns are handled by customers. I was in a store one day where long guns, some new and some used, where on display on the sales floor where customers could handle and inspect them. I saw one guy pick up every gun, cycle the action, dry fire it and them put it back in the rack. The jerk had no interest in the guns let alone any intentions of buying one as he never talked to a clerk about any of them and left without buying one.
Now you want me to send a new gun to a dealer and customer that sight unseen will handle and "inspect" the gun.
er, NO.
As pointed out new guns are covered by manufacturers warranties.
Any gun clerk / store owner can tell you horror stories about the way guns are handled by customers. I was in a store one day where long guns, some new and some used, where on display on the sales floor where customers could handle and inspect them. I saw one guy pick up every gun, cycle the action, dry fire it and them put it back in the rack. The jerk had no interest in the guns let alone any intentions of buying one as he never talked to a clerk about any of them and left without buying one.
Now you want me to send a new gun to a dealer and customer that sight unseen will handle and "inspect" the gun.
er, NO.
As pointed out new guns are covered by manufacturers warranties.
Captcurt
Member
It's simple. If you don't agree with the terms, find another dealer. His gun is not the only one on the market.
Hokkmike
Member
Their reputation speaks volumes. Many gun dealers I have purchased from have told me that at the point of transfer when the gun is in my name the only recourse to resolving an issue is with the manufacturer. This is typical. I did have one dealer who replaced a Marlin lever action for me when I discovered excessive holes drilled in the stock under the butt plate. But largely, the above described practice seems in line with most of what I am familiar with.
Bought many guns on auction and online. When buying used you are looking at the seller's past history if available. I once paid a pretty penny for a rifle on auction and found the safety was broken. The seller paid for the repairs.
UPDATE: the dealer answered my e-mail question; customer is allowed to inspect the firearm at the FFL LGS to insure that the item passes muster - once it leaves the shop (and obviously after transfer to the customer), the gun becomes a used item and cannot be returned/ exchanged/ refunded. Those terms seem very fair to me.
buck460XVR
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Same here. No different than buying directly from the store/shop/FFL dealer itself. Got a good semi-retired friend that works part time in Walmart sporting goods section. Tells me about those folks, because of WallyWorld's "no question asked" return policy, that buy tents and other camping gear, and then bring it back two weeks later for a full refund after their once a year camping trip. I could see folks doing that with guns after opening day of deer season if they could.........
hemiram
Member
I thought almost all online gun sales were "take it up with the manufacturer if there is a problem". A friend of mine did everything wrong when a gun came in with the wrong finish. He wanted shiny blue and got matte black. It said on the page he bought it from "black" as the finish. He did the transfer, took it home and then called the selling store and whined. "Why did you do the transfer?", they asked him. He didn't really have a good answer. I have zero sympathy for him. He whined and whined and they finally gave him about 75% of the price towards another gun. Which he doesn't like. Wahhh! For someone who ponders every purchase to death, he sure has a lot of buyer's remorse.
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