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Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

Discussion in 'Air Guns' started by cobalt327, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    I was thinking "those guns" would be the ones with fake engraving or fake special status AND those of us in this thread making high performance BB guns.

    I'm actually hoping someone will have the same idea with all those surplus Daisy/Avanti 853s. I'd like to get 600 FPS! I just don't know what to do about it!
     
  2. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    That something I had also wanted. A higher output single pumper based on the 853 should be doable for someone with the chops to pull it off. The basic gun is strong, I'm sure it could take a lot more than what barely 500 fps puts on it.
     
  3. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    I've owned a number of those and don't think I've ever seen one that could push a light pellet to 500 fps. They are accurate but slow.
     
  4. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I've had 2 of them and neither of mine ever broke 500 fps either. I got 478 avg. from 7.0 gr. Hobbys.

    ETA- the ES was good so the actual MV was okay for 10M target shooting. Thing was, I shoot at longer distances when I plink and that's 99% of my shooting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  5. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    I'm going to have to chrony mine now... if I remember.
     
  6. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    I tried using them to control English Sparrows in the Purple Martin houses. At long distances they were shooting too slow and the sparrows could move before the pellet reached them. Kind of disappointing. For basement plinking they worked good.
     
  7. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    Just a quick note. I tested out my Daisy 853. I got 462, 461, 456, and 460 fps. I got bored and moved on to just shooting my steel swingy target instead of checking the chronograph.
    Anyone have any ideas on how to soup it up?
     
  8. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    That's inline with what I remember. It's been quite awhile since having anything to do with them but it seems that one would have increase the air charge and the valve design.
     
  9. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Not a modification, but the 853 I first got from CMP had a lot of slop in the pump lever pivots and linkages. I replaced it with a new one from Daisy (p/n 167939-000 Pump Lever Assembly, $11.00) and it increased the MV by 8-10 fps.The headspace can be maxed out to gain a bit. If a solid spring guide were made it would increase pressure by reducing volume inside the compression chamber. The transfer port is accessed by removing a plug in the bottom of the valve body. When the plug is removed a drill can be used to increase the size of the TP port, and the port where it enters the barrel can be slightly angled. All together still not going to be that much of an increase, though.

    TP PLUG.jpg
     
  10. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    I guess a pneumatic gun is a pneumatic gun, so what's good for the springer in theory is going to be good for the 853 in theory. Application is going to be different, no mainspring to stiffen in the 853, but increasing the pressure is increasing the pressure. Increasing volume of airflow is increasing the volume of airflow.
     
  11. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Very true in my opinion. Ideally the pump chamber swept volume would be increased to gain pressure but that is a pretty tall order for most hobbyists.

    I forgot to mention, and it might not hold true universally, but I got better MV using RWS Superpoint 8.2 gr pellets than when shooting many lighter pellets. So finding the pellets the gun likes can gain some performance.
     
  12. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    I've got a lathe and a mill and am not uncomfortable boring out compression cylinders (or whatever you should call them) or even making new cylinders/pistons. I'd probably be better off starting from scratch and building a new design, but I don't think I'd find as much fun there.
     
  13. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Today was cold out so spent some time with the Frankengun. Spent the afternoon and evening shooting for groupings. For the first hours it was very frustrating. I was coming to the conclusion that I had in fact created a monster. Tried different barrels, standard and extended. nothing seemed to help. Different BB's showed the same results. Cleaned and re-cleaned the barrels. The first half hour was especially maddening until discovering the scope mounts on the rail were just barely snug. I added lead weights to the holes that Shane put in the stock. Put friction tape on the steel but pad so it wouldn't slide around. Still not getting consistent groups but improving. At least things had gone from moment of bucket to moment of fifty cent piece. Still too large for English Sparrows.
    Finally it came to me. Should have happened a lot sooner after years of shooting spring powered air rifles. The gun is hold sensitive. Very hold sensitive. Once I quit fighting it things started improving. Starting to feel like I'm gaining on it. Nickle sized groups at 10 metes are starting to be common. The gun twangs quite a bit and gives the impression I'm shooting a tuning fork. I'm going to work on that next. At least I'm starting to feel like there is hope for this gun again. The two groups by the dime are showing promise. The left is 3 shots and the right 5.
    BB target.jpg
     
  14. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I believe the spring twang is directly related to the fit of the spring to the plunger- there's a lot of space between there. I wonder if using some strips of plastic on the outside of the plunger legs would help by tightening the fit? Similar to what they do with springer pellet guns. Grease on the spring may help but that would cost of MV.

    In any event, those groups are lot better than I was getting at first with my 105B Buck with the 499 shot tube and a half and Diana spring. It took adding weight and changing the hold, same as you, to get it to behave- but it's still a handful!
     
  15. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    There used to be a thing called the "shrink tube tune" that we would do on air rifles. It used to help a lot with the spring twang. Going to have to look and see if that would be possible on the 499's.
    I'm afraid we are creating little monsters here which wasn't expected with these mild springs.:( Live and learn.
     
  16. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Good to hear more info on the red riders. Still messing with my pair of Red Riders. When equipped with the HP spring, I think they’re more difficult to shoot accurately. I’ve had the heavier spring in both guns with the same result. The difference is not great but for me there is a difference. I think it’s just the heavier “jolt” makes it tougher to shoot. With all the modifications I’ve made to the guns, the stock spring gun will shoot under 3/4” at 33ft. Under 1 1/4” with the HP spring. Pretty good compared to the 3”+ I was getting at the beginning of this Odyssey
    A clean oil free bore and the larger “Marksman” BBs have had the biggest effect in accuracy. Next up? Sorting BBs —ugh. I hate sorting anything.
    Results to follow. Aim small.
     
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  17. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Dave, I tend to agree the HP spring makes shooting groups more challenging. It's really not much different than the magnum springer pellet guns- they all need to be practiced with to learn how to best hold them, etc. And the pellet guns weigh considerably more than our Red Ryders, and the weight helps take the jolt of the spring starting and stopping. Taking the Daisy HP spring to the extreme, I found the Diana spring in an otherwise stock model 105B Buck to be exceedingly difficult to shoot groups with. Although for whatever reason, when plinking with it, it seemed to not be as bothered as shooting it from a bench (which I seldom do, and don't particularly like to do). My #1 Red Ryder (the one with the maple stock from Shane) is heavier than a stock gun and it shoots very nicely. So weight matters.

    On another note, I just saw this today https://www.ebay.com/itm/Daisy-Red-...786579?hash=item522cbb3cd3:g:4nsAAOSwcwpeIknx

    s-l1600.jpg

    It comes with the forearm and stock adapter, w/o the adjustable stock for $25 shipped. It's 3D printed, I have no connection to the vendor, although I did contact them to tell them about this post..
     
  18. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Here is the assembly video. The volume is low so you'll have to listen carefully.
     
  19. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Thanks for posting the assembly video, cvans. I have one coming, I'll be reviewing it here.

    I just read that Action Sport Games (ASG) will be releasing their CZ 75 Shadow 2 as a steel BB pistol with adjustable hop up in July. I hope it's affordable so I can get one and see how they do the adjustable hop up on it. It would be cool if it was adaptable to our Daisys!

    Forgive me if I already mentioned it, but the model 1938AAR adult Red Ryder stock is available, p/n 169952-000 ARR STOCK for $19.99 plus ship.
     
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  20. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Here's some photos. It has a front sling attachment that swivels, and there's a straight sling mount included, too. The stock and forearm are on a 105B Buck, I thought it might make a handy brush gun. The stock is made to fit a commercial AR recoil tube, and I happened to have such a stock on hand. It is very solid, and all the parts fit together nicely. It has the 3D printing lines; I liken them to the tell-tale CNC machining tracks seen on cylinder head ports and such. I'll be talking more about it after I shoot some with it.

    105 STOCK AA.jpg

    105 STOCK B.jpg

    105 STOCK C.jpg

    105 STOCK D.jpg

    105 STOCK E.jpg
     
  21. F1

    F1 Member

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    You'll shoot your eye out, kid!
     
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  22. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Like the idea of extendable stock.
     
  23. TigerBuggy

    TigerBuggy Member

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    Cobalt327, do you still have those High Performance Replacement Springs for the Daisy Red Ryder??? I'd like to purchase a pair from you if possible.

    My son and I have picked up a new Red Ryder & Adult Red Ryder's and would love to up the performance without adding a spacer to the spring. Thank you.
     
  24. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I am sorry for the late reply- I'm not getting any alerts when a new post has been made like I used to.

    I sent you a PM with details, but yes- I have a few springs left.
     
  25. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    So, the only bad point I've found is the sharp edges of the rails on the forearm are uncomfortable when I grip the gun. I have some rail covers from my AR that may help but I've not dug them out of storage yet. There are two screws per rail holding them on and if there's no adhesive involved, removing the rails is also an option. Unfortunately, I don't have a bipod to mount to the bottom rail of the forearm, but I did mount my flashlight to it and it fits the rail like a glove.

    The buttstock's adjustable length makes setting the LOP a no-brainer. For non-adjustable stocks, it'll be a case-by-case thing as to how the LOP works out. For me and my particular AR stock, my cheek placement is fine for using the open sights. There is some wiggle between the AR stock and the adapter extension- but there's some movement on my AR between the stock and recoil buffer tube, too! On the AR I used some moleskin and I suspect that will help here, too.

    Overall, I think it's a very good buy for $25.00 with USPS Priority shipping included.
     
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