Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

[cobalt327]

Wow. I had no idea that the cowboy has the same assembly besides the screw and clip addition. I guess I was a little late to that game. I may pick up one for a looksie

The Cowboy was a disappointment for me. It shoots a little harder but was nowhere near as accurate as a Red Ryder, and the stock on it has a VERY short length of pull. Definitely sized for a child, not an adult. The hardware is fiddly to work with (see below). The cost compared to the Red Ryder is high. And the cocking effort is too high due to the lever ratio, made worse by the lever itself being uncomfortable to use. Other than that... haha

I also want to let folks know that blackbarrelcustoms has an eBay store, too. Lots of interesting Daisy items. You can see them by clicking on See other items.

 

[Ratte]

The main shortcoming of the "Cowboy" is parts availability - not conducive to tinkering!
(The gun itself reminds me of how the old Soviet Union used to steal and reverse-engineer our weapons designs -
crude but effective!)

Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[TerryCowger]

BlackBarrelCustoms
Good job on the videos, love the long gun !
Your post was a few days late to save the RR trigger set I hacked out of a friends gun after it got suck into and then jammed inside the reciever, It wasn't pretty but I got it out.
The reason for my post is to ask you what thickness of wood do you use for your guns stocks ?
Are you having the wood milled special to fill the width of the reciever ?
All I can find around here is 3/4" and I think I need 7/8" ?
Thanks Terry

 

[BlackBarrelCustoms]

BlackBarrelCustoms
Good job on the videos, love the long gun !
Your post was a few days late to save the RR trigger set I hacked out of a friends gun after it got suck into and then jammed inside the reciever, It wasn't pretty but I got it out.
The reason for my post is to ask you what thickness of wood do you use for your guns stocks ?
Are you having the wood milled special to fill the width of the reciever ?
All I can find around here is 3/4" and I think I need 7/8" ?
Thanks Terry

I use a Delta 12" planer to get my stocks down to 0.87 in. Or 22.2mm. I use my own templates on various length board and trace which styles I need on tap. These modern daisy triggers can be a bugger to get out.

 

[TerryCowger]

Thanks I figured as much.
I helps to have the rite tools for the job, keep up the good work.
Terry

 

[BlackBarrelCustoms]

So this thread is all about putting a little more umph in our Daisy's. To keep it on topic. I would like to introduce yall to my bread and sweet butter. I've been experimenting with brass air tubes. what would one likely say to a stand alone mod with roughly 100fps gains? Some may say it's impossible but here we are 2021 and I have the proof, along with some pics of the little gem that gets it there. Also a link to it in action

 

[ncairman]

Very good post on the upgrades to the Daisy rifle BlackBarrelCustom. I enjoy the rifles myself and have used some of Cobalt327 parts myself on a 105 and a Red Ryder. I am interested in following your work and its nice to see folks still interested in the Red Ryders/105. Your long barrel rifles are great as I also have an interest in the old black powder rifles as well. I have yet to pick up a 2021 Christmas Wish, but I intend to do so soon. Keep posting and Thanks for the Posts.

 

[BlackBarrelCustoms]

So I've been tinkering around a bit more on my next build and have to add that the custom brass air tube,in the previous post truly benefits the longer length of the barrel for the long gun. For my next build I opted to use a brass shot tube, paired with a brass air tube. ( I have found out the hard way that varying metals also contain a varying degree of +/- tolerances of the tubing wall.) I also ordered a couple sticks of common seamless steel tubes, and started comparing how much side to side play was between a factory steel airtube against, the brass,copper,so, and common steel with an I.D of. 0.19. All the soft metals appear to have more play. I also conducted an eyeball test with the bb in the tube peering with daylight to determine how much air gap there was.
My latest build was carrying a brass shot tube with brass 7/64 dual inlet,1/8" exit airtube installed. The barrel length is only an inch and a half longer than that of the RR. After discovering the tolerance differences I went back to a tear down and installed again the brass airtube. Paired with a common steel shot tube. The fps put me to the 260s. So I installed a 7/64 drilled airtube, and presto. The gun runs a steady 313fps. So the only real other thing that's making more sense is the long tube helps add more velocity as well when paired with the brass tube I had built. I will likely keep using this airtube in all my long gun builds. I'd love to see how it would do pared with cobalt 327s hp spring. I hope all this info helps everyone out. Trials and tribulations for sure. But so much fun!

 

[TerryCowger]

BlackBarrelCustoms
I watched your last video and it's quiet good, your getting some really good numbers out of those Daisy Bucks and the guns are very interesting to say the least.
Can you tell us a little about how your doing it or what goes into one of your builds? (I know you do explain somewhat in the video but there must be more to it)
Like what shot tube I.D. and length and how it connects to witch abutment?
I would be especially interested in the shotgun shell trigger because it's really cool, how does it work, does it pass the "drop test" ect....
If this is all a secret I'm sure we all will understand ?
Thanks Terry

 

[Ratte]

"Three Steps Forward - Two Steps Back"
​

It's been an interesting and frustrating two weeks - been working on:

• a narrow 499 abutment - to shorten the TP (transfer port) & reduce the overhang of the M25 Shot Tube Assembly

​

• a 1/4" bolt to replace the Spring Key - corrects Piston Spring contact to 90 degrees & aids in assembly/disassembly

​

• a roller to keep the rear of the Piston Spring Assembly from riding up & scraping the "roof" of the Receiver

​

• smoother trigger action - filing, polishing & better springs (cut springs to length from the spring from an "EpiPen")

​

Ufortunately - this popped up

​

I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was going on! I would seat the abutment, reassemble the gun, dry fire 2 or 3 times and then the cocking lever wouldn't catch the sear plate
on the Piston Assembly. Was the abutment not fully seated? Had the sear end raised up enough that the lever wouldn't catch? (I had the piston tweaked to get maximum stroke from the lever
and was running over 3/4 of an inch of preload on the spring). Disassemble, examine, scratch head, carefully reassemble, Rinse & Repeat!

That is where a boroscope would have solved the puzzle - the strong spring and powerful piston impact had sheared the 4 spot welds and the shortened abutment was forcing the sheet metal cone
incrementally into the smaller "barrel" tube. A 14mm socket on a long extension pounded the offending piece back toward the breech for removal. Apparently, this piece was used instead of a proper
abutment stop when they went to the "non-removeable - all in one" Red Ryder abutment/shot tube assembly.

IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING!​

Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[BlackBarrelCustoms]

BlackBarrelCustoms
I watched your last video and it's quiet good, your getting some really good numbers out of those Daisy Bucks and the guns are very interesting to say the least.
Can you tell us a little about how your doing it or what goes into one of your builds? (I know you do explain somewhat in the video but there must be more to it)
Like what shot tube I.D. and length and how it connects to witch abutment?
I would be especially interested in the shotgun shell trigger because it's really cool, how does it work, does it pass the "drop test" ect....
If this is all a secret I'm sure we all will understand ?
Thanks Terry

Hi Terry. Thanks for the questions. As for my builds, it's all assembly and dis assembly until the moment of the body care. (Paint, de burr, vynil wrap for cosmetics,etc) alot of time and patience. For the gun with 2 triggers, I began by drilling a hole just under the plunger assembly, following that it took a couple of cuts and drilling to modify the backside of the trigger assembly. From the trigger to the shot shell, I ran a 1/16" rod ( with the proper bends, that took forever). Drilling out the shotshell. I was able to solder it to the rod. And file down. A D cell battery spring helps aid in the trigger return just hidden under the shotshell. The "drop test" is all good. With no firing. I plan on doing a video highlighting the ins and outs of the feeder assembly, along with a couple of tweaks one can do for a feed, AT slide, and abutment washer mods. The shotube sizes vary based on what alloys are used. I hope this helps
The tubing for the shot tube builds vary.

 

[BlackBarrelCustoms]

"Three Steps Forward - Two Steps Back"
​

It's been an interesting and frustrating two weeks - been working on:

• a narrow 499 abutment - to shorten the TP (transfer port) & reduce the overhang of the M25 Shot Tube Assembly

View attachment 1043398 View attachment 1043399​

• a 1/4" bolt to replace the Spring Key - corrects Piston Spring contact to 90 degrees & aids in assembly/disassembly

View attachment 1043401 View attachment 1043403 View attachment 1043415
​

• a roller to keep the rear of the Piston Spring Assembly from riding up & scraping the "roof" of the Receiver

View attachment 1043414​

• smoother trigger action - filing, polishing & better springs (cut springs to length from the spring from an "EpiPen")

View attachment 1043413
​

Ufortunately - this popped up

View attachment 1043416 View attachment 1043417 View attachment 1043421
​

I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was going on! I would seat the abutment, reassemble the gun, dry fire 2 or 3 times and then the cocking lever wouldn't catch the sear plate
on the Piston Assembly. Was the abutment not fully seated? Had the sear end raised up enough that the lever wouldn't catch? (I had the piston tweaked to get maximum stroke from the lever
and was running over 3/4 of an inch of preload on the spring). Disassemble, examine, scratch head, carefully reassemble, Rinse & Repeat!

That is where a boroscope would have solved the puzzle - the strong spring and powerful piston impact had sheared the 4 spot welds and the shortened abutment was forcing the sheet metal cone
incrementally into the smaller "barrel" tube. A 14mm socket on a long extension pounded the offending piece back toward the breech for removal. Apparently, this piece was used instead of a proper
abutment stop when they went to the "non-removeable - all in one" Red Ryder abutment/shot tube assembly.

IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING!​

Cheers!
"Ratte"

Wow Ratte, you really been down in there. That's an interesting build you have going. I totally feel ya on the struggles. I'll bet you really were scratching your head there for a minute. Great job figuring out where the flaw layed.

 

[Ratte]

BlackBarrelCustoms

Thanks man! I was scratching my head for a lot longer than a minute!

Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[TerryCowger]

You guy's are above my pay grade.
Blackbarrel, Bending all that wire and threading through the gun and into the trigger. WOW!
I also watched your latest video about the air tubes, very informative.
Have you given thought about adding a spring spacer in the gun with the 1/8" tube?
Ratte I really like the roller, did you make it or is a Crossman? Either way it's kool!
Keep up the good work !
Terry

 

[Ratte]

Terry

The "Roller" was one of my biggest frustrations - 4 iterations (all hand crafted - 1/8" id tube w/ various size rollers - attached w/ 1/8" pop rivet) and it still isn't right!
The trigger is the problem - if the roller is the proper size to do it's job (when neccesary), then as the sear plate contacts the trigger mechanism, there is a "ramp up"
that jams the roller against the "roof" of the receiver and the roller also contacts the sear cam - further jamming up the works!
I'm going to have to take a look at the 499 trigger mechanism and see what I can come up with.

Meanwhile, I've come up with a fix for my failed abutment and am pressing on - stay tuned!

Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[TerryCowger]

Have you thought about a nylon skid plate in place of the roller ?
May be easier to adjust and may solve the scraping problem?
Thinking out loud.............
Terry

 

[Ratte]

Terry

I was working the problem when my wandering abutment showed up.
The idea was to properly space the roller by epoxying a "U" channel to the "roof" of the receiver.

"A thing of beauty isn't it!"​

Unfortunately - we are now playing "Wack a Mole"

• the cocking lever tip hits it at its highest arc
• the roller clearance when the sear plate engages the trigger is effectively "0" even without the spacer
• the Red Ryder lower rail and "beartrap" rail become a factor
• the piston takes a beating having to be forced past this whole mess

"Hey, no one said it was going to be easy!"​

Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[TerryCowger]

Ratte
You do good work, looks great

It's a balancing act to say the least, like trying to fit round peg in a square hole.
I bought a Buck and made a cutaway so I could see what's going on inside these silly things.
It was very enlightening to see what is really going on inside.
Have you rounded the edges of the roller, you may gain space there?

My thoughts about the "Bear Trap" Cut the stupid thing out !

Keep at it you'll get there !
Terry

 

[Ratte]

Terry

Thought about a tapered wedge shim - but that doesn't get around most of the above mentioned problems.

All my "beartraps" are long gone, but what I was refering to are the sheet metal rails or guides inside the receiver that the sear plate can contact
as it approaches the trigger. Note the protrusions on each side of sear plate (also the slight upslope the bottom of the plate rides up as it is guided
to the latched position with the sear cams).

​

Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[TerryCowger]

Thought you all may like to see this?
It's a 1938RR I fixed up for my friend, I striped the finish off the stocks and then added about four inches to the end of the stock. (he has long arms) The extra wood is made of oak stool legs I had left over after cutting a stool shorter.
I put a 1/8" brass but plate on it and finished it with True oil buffed with oooo steel wool.
It has a colbalt spring w/3/8" spacer, no air tube, honed cylinder and every thing polished inside, It's also got the dayglo front sight and is very accurate.
It shoots consistently in the 430's, it's also a single shot because that's what he wanted, he told me he likes them better than the repeater.
Not your average Wally World Red Rider.................
Terry

 

[Ratte]

Terry

Pretty Work! - Pretty Work!

Confirm this was an older Red Ryder (vs a 1938b) with the old style screw in shot tube and you used the M25 shot tube w/ the loading port blocked off to make it a muzzle loader?
What's your technique for honing the cylinder? 3/8" spacer w/ Cobalt spring?

Progress report: re-installed modded abutment w/ new abutment stop, came up with a short tapered shim & epoxyed in place in the receiver (currently curing).

"Tomorrow is another day"

Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[TerryCowger]

Confirm this was an older Red Ryder (vs a 1938b) with the old style screw in shot tube and you used the M25 shot tube w/ the loading port blocked off to make it a muzzle loader?

Nope it's a newer gun, (I guess I forgot the "B") I did use a M25 abutment drilled completely through and taped to 7/16x14 then made a new barrel abutment, that seals the barrel on that end. So then I made a muzzle to fit the barrel and that sealed that end.
I used a small break hone (for rebuilding old non disc type) to hone the cylinder, I had to add an extension to it to reach inside far enough.
The spring shim is there to correct the angle of the OE spring block, not sure it's adding any power to it?
I'm sure there is more to get out of this gun but he is happy as it is so it will probably stay as is?
(nothing shabby about 430 FPS)
Sounds like your about to get yours going, good luck and keep us posted.
Terry

 

[Ratte]

Terry
I was confused because I saw only the M25 shot tube in the 1st picture, then later noticed the machined "work of art" in the 2nd.
Confirm that the abutment you drilled and tapped was a 499B abutment that either shot tube could screw into?
On the custom shot tube:

• RR or M25 barrel?
  
• where does the BB and magnet sit?
• ID & length of transfer port?

All the dimensions above influence the FPS of especially a muzzle loader.

On my end - the tapered shim worked well (with slight interference issues w/ the piston on assembly),
But - the abutment stop I concocted wouldn't hold up to the "pile driving" and was actually expanding the barrel tubing where it reduces down!
Guess those spot welds are pretty vital (another weak spot revealed). Will have to transfer all my parts/pieces to another receiver.

"Keeps me out of trouble"

Holiday Cheers!
"Ratte"

 

[cobalt327]

Good stuff, all- keep it up! Sorry for my recent lack of participation (not that I have the same chops as you guys!), I've been really busy here at home so all I've been able to do is steal a minute to take a look. This is the most outside the box/pushing the envelope work by the three of you that I've ever seen, and I'm excited to watch!!

 

[Punkin_Ball_Ballistcs]

Hello All, I know I'm kind of late to the party here but I am wondering if anyone has tried polishing the struts of the plunger assembly to reduce friction on the inside of the power spring as it binds up at compression? Also wondering if anyone has tried "swiss cheesing", drilling material out of the struts, not to the point of weakness but to lighten the whole assembly, so the power spring is not dragging so much weight forward when fired? I'm looking at a way to make the existing assembly more efficient with lighter springs. I have a big air tube and 327 spring available but it seems hard on the gun, especially when there is a miss feed and dry fire.