Quality American non-1911 semi-autos?

[762NATO]

What are the options? I hear S&W got it right with the M&P...if you're into striker-fired guns. I suppose Kahr fits the bill too. Are Keltecs American?

Companies that immediately come to mind when thinking quality semi-autos are Sig, H&K, Beretta, Glock, CZ, Walther, etc. I have a couple of Sigs and I dig 'em, but I really want to start buying American as much as possible from now on. I'm open to 1911's but I'm not sure I'll go down that road...yet (I KNOW it will happen eventually!!).

 

[Rexster]

I think S&W got it right with some of the 3rd-Generation autopistol models.

 

[gwnorth]

The FNP line seems pretty good, from my experience (owned a FNP 45 for a year, and have shot a FNP 9mm numerous times).

 

[TonyT]

I enjoy shooting two S&W M&P's a 9mm and 45 ACP. Howver, I have a particular fondness for my S&W 952 and 945. I used the 945 for several years in bullseye pistol matches.

 

[jdh]

Smith got it right with the first of their autos the 39. The 3rd gens are good also.

M&Ps are good.

Ruger's P Series and SR9 are ok.

 

[19-3Ben]

Love my M&P.
Love my Kahr K40.

Sigs are made here in the USA, and many many people like them (not my cup of tea personally).

 

[gearhead]

Another vote for the FNP. Completely American made, hammer fired, DA/SA, and available with manual safety if that's how you prefer it.

 

[legion3]

Define American?

Is it

1)A US company that employs American workers who makes the product in the US?

or

2) a Foreign company (or Branch) that employs American workers who makes the product in the US?


1) SW, Ruger, Kahr, Kel Tec, Colt

2) FN, Beretta, Sig

 

[jackpinesavages]

That word "quality" is pretty subjective, and pistol shooters are all over the board on being subjective with shooting. For me it's the 3rd gen. Smith autos that I love. I'm a larger person, with large hands, and there is just something about that rock solid feel of my 1076s with the palm swell grips. Well built, the company still stands behind their pistols for repairs, but that's not the main reason I started buying S&W pistols pretty exclusively lately; they support our troops overseas.

Some pansy bastards in Washington refused to send more protective eyewear to the Middle East conflict areas for the military, at some point and time in the last 10 years. Smith & Wesson stepped up and donated a HUGE shipment to our shooters. Every little bit counts in the field, in the heat of battle, an edge means these troops might get back home. Alright, I'm off my soapbox.

 

[Mags]

Define American?

Is it

1)A US company that employs American workers who makes the product in the US?

or

2) a Foreign company (or Branch) that employs American workers who makes the product in the US?


1) SW, Ruger, Kahr, Kel Tec, Colt

2) FN, Beretta, Sig

Or an American company that imports their pistols from another company: Springfield

 

[postalnut25]

I love my M&P9 pro. If you want to look around for used guns that are American made and not 1911's, then look at the S&W's. Had a model 59 for a while. It was a tad heavy, but it was reliable and pretty accurate, too.

 

[legion3]

Or an American company that imports their pistols from another company: Springfield

Yep, the XD line fits in a third catagory.


3) A US company that imports from a foreign company which employs Croatian workers who makes the product in Croatia?

HK Produkt (HS ARMS)

http://www.hs-arms.com/products.php

 

[Pilot]

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China???

I think the gentleman made a nice little remark about who owns the U.S., ie. our huge debt.

Ruger makes a good semiauto in the MK III (I prefer the MK II, but that's for another thread) and the centerfires are OK, but not my preference. Come to think of it all my semiautos, except for my 1911's and .22's are European or ex-Combloc.

 

[xanderzuk]

I would say that if you don't have a preference in material, ie steel over polymer, then you absolutely can't go wrong with an M&P series pistol from Smith & Wesson.

I have an M&P 9 Pro, and it's extremely accurate and reliable. Every bit as accurate, if not more so than my CZ 75, and any of the Beretta's, Springfields, etc. that I've shot with.

It's so accurate in fact, and falls into the hand so nicely (probably even more important), that I've handed it to people on the range and within three to five rounds watched their groups tighten several inches almost instantly! Many people finish a mag and turn around and look at me with WIDE eyes and all they can get out is "Wow..."

M&P 9 Pro is my vote, but that's because you don't want a 1911 (yet).

p.s. While I think Ruger turns out an ok product, the level of finishing is pretty poor. This especially shows on their revolvers. Open the cylinder and press the ejector a couple of times, very gritty and rough. They aren't that expensive, but in this case, I think you are getting what you pay for. Just my opinion.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If you mean a wholly American company that manufactures guns in this country, your choices are Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Kahr, Kel-Tec, Hi-Point and a few small "boutique" makers. (Foreign companies with manufacturing facilities here and American companies that import their products from other companies are in a different category.) I only have direct experience with S&W (Third Generation metal-frame and M&P) and Kahr; both are outstanding.

 

[Skylerbone]

A hard question to answer when you don't state the purpose of the pistol in question. (yes, I understand your purpose is to buy a quality American pistol but that's wide open).

Now for my answer: plent of quality pistols being turned out in the USA. I too tend to follow the "money trail" to determine what qualifies as American. I love my M&P 40, rave about it's reliability and shootability and added an M&P 9c to the collection this weekend.

When you say quality it gives me pause to think of what these two were like out of the box. The 40 needed a trigger job compliments of Apex Tactical sear and striker block, polishing of the trigger bar and deburring of the slide stop to make it a one handed operation. Ditto on the 9c but with a home stoned sear and striker block (saved $55 and put it at 5 1/2 lbs instead of 4 even).

Were they both 100% reliable out of the box? Absolutely. Did they need some attention for full functionality? Absolutely. So quality may be subjective in so far as details but I would have no problem recommending either for carry. 800 & 100 rounds without failure and counting. S&W 1911PD is next on my to buy list.

 

[Manco]

Here's another vote for the M&P. Mine is completely stock, and the trigger smoothed out nicely after a couple hundred rounds. So far it's been completely reliable and more than accurate enough for a service pistol (as accurate as any I've shot, within my own limitations).

I think the gentleman made a nice little remark about who owns the U.S., ie. our huge debt.

What was that old saying? When you owe the bank a million dollars, the bank owns you, but when you owe the bank a billion dollars, then you own the bank!

 

[MCgunner]

IMHO, the Ruger P90 is as good as DA autos get. Super reliable, super accurate, super strong. One thing I like about mine is the great trigger. It ain't the lightest trigger, but it's smooth and light enough and the transition from DA to SA is just PERFECT. Maybe I'm just so used to it having fired it so much in the last two decades, but to me it's perfection in a DA trigger. I'd like to have a CZ or Sig, but I'd lever sell my P90 to get one. That thing is simply awesome. It's a little fat, but it's fairly light to carry. IMHO, Ruger is among the best of the American companies.

Kel Tec is all American and very innovative. They have great CS, though I've never had to use it. My P11 has been shooting away since 1996, is a very good pocket carry. Kahr if you prefer to spend more money, has less a rep for CS, just as much rep for returns to the factory. I'd as soon save some and get the Kel Tec...or if you're looking at .380s, an LCP.

I like some of the S&Ws, but the M&P ain't one of 'em. I've never been a fan of Glock style guns. I do very much like the Smith 3913 and related 9mm carries, thought they're a bit pricey and I don't own one. Beautiful to look at, reliable, accurate, and easy to carry and conceal. There are other Smiths I like, but the 3913 is the one I like the most. I might wind up with one of those someday.

JMHO, though. This seems to be an opinion survey and I don't think there are too many opinions on this board that agree.

 

[762NATO]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry the vagueness of my question. When I said American I meant American American, USA company, USA production. And I said non-1911 b/c I already know I want a 1911, just not sure it will be my next purchase. I'm not in the market for a specific pistol yet, I just want to know my options for when the time comes. Knowing my options will help me define my needs (comparing options to what I already have and what I may sell...though I think it may be against my religion to sell guns!!...I regret the one I did sell). I carry a Sig P239 (and a P226 for OC), but sometimes I find myself considering a striker-fired gun for concealed carry. No safety to deactivate (1911) and no long DA pull for the first shot or adjustment to make for the second (DA/SA).

I'll have to give the S&W 3rd gens a try. A buddy of mine has an S&W 9mm, and it had the worst trigger of any gun I had ever fired. I forget exactly what model it was, but I SEEMED to be DA/SA but the trigger in SA was heavier than my P226's in DA. He said something about stringing two shots together making the trigger lighter. Tried it...no idea what he was talking about. Wish I could remember which gun it was. I had an XDm but I didn't like the trigger. When you met resistance in the 2nd stage, it creeped until it broke. NOTHING could be done about it b/c that's how the pistol is designed (take it down and examine how the firing pin is released). Not sure if M&Ps are the same way.

 

[Manco]

I like some of the S&Ws, but the M&P ain't one of 'em. I've never been a fan of Glock style guns. I do very much like the Smith 3913 and related 9mm carries, thought they're a bit pricey and I don't own one. Beautiful to look at, reliable, accurate, and easy to carry and conceal. There are other Smiths I like, but the 3913 is the one I like the most. I might wind up with one of those someday.

Definitely one of the first questions that people who are looking for a new handgun should answer for themselves right off the bat, if possible, is what type of trigger system they want (i.e. SAO, DA/SA, DAO, "safe action"). Another is whether there is a preference for polymer or metal frames.

A buddy of mine has an S&W 9mm, and it had the worst trigger of any gun I had ever fired. I forget exactly what model it was, but I SEEMED to be DA/SA but the trigger in SA was heavier than my P226's in DA. He said something about stringing two shots together making the trigger lighter. Tried it...no idea what he was talking about. Wish I could remember which gun it was.

Perhaps it was a Sigma? (good gun these days, but the trigger is heavy and not particularly well liked, to put it mildly)

I had an XDm but I didn't like the trigger. When you met resistance in the 2nd stage, it creeped until it broke. NOTHING could be done about it b/c that's how the pistol is designed (take it down and examine how the firing pin is released). Not sure if M&Ps are the same way.

I haven't shot an XD in a long time and have never shot an XDm, but the M&P's trigger (even stock) is "crisper" than the impression I get from your description. Then again, I don't "stage" the trigger, so maybe I just never noticed any creep or forgot (I don't care about audible/tactile trigger resets, either, because I only train with a single trigger pull motion, releasing it completely each time). I should add that the M&P's trigger system is quite customizable (more so than the Glock's, for example), either by getting a trigger job done or using aftermarket replacement parts.

 

[fast200]

Why does it matter if it's a US based company as long as it is being made here and US workers are benefiting?

If its a private company fine but most large corporations (some exceptions I'm sure) don't see themselves as "American". They see themselves as multinational entities and the profits basically end up with shareholders all over the world anyway.

 

[Kingofthehill]

M&P's are amazing!...

I love ALL of mine more than my glocks, FN's, XD's, Ruger's, and most everything else i own.

The ONLY polymer gun i will put against my M&P's are my Steyr's. My steyr M9-A1 is by far the best gun i own.Im always looking for more

 

[REAPER4206969]

The only pistol that qualifies is the M&P. Assuming your speaking of a service class pistol.

 

[stchman]

To the posters, FNs are Belgian. Springfield XDs are Croatian made pistols.

I am a big Ruger fan and have two semi-auto pistols.

I have shot over 1000 rounds in my SR9 and it has never given me one ounce of problem. I also have a P95 that has only had one FTE in over 250 rounds. The P95's FTE was during the first 100 rounds so I will attribute it to break in.

I am of the mindset that the American companies make just as good a pistol as the Europeans.

I also notice that if a pistol costs a lot of $$$$$, people perceive it to be excellent when it may or may not be.

Take automobiles for instance, some of the most expensive European sports cars costing $200,000 or more need frequent maintenance when a good old Chevy or Ford pickup can take an absolute beating and keep on going.

 

[Skylerbone]

Here's a new suggestion: go to a store that has a large stock of pistols and dry fire all of them. Keep in mind that trigger work can be done on any gun and disqualifying any gun for trigger feel alone couldnleave alot of pistols out of the running.

The purpose of the dryfire is to determine what feels good in your hands. Are controls where they need to be? Do they function? Could YOU fix it and pocket the savings? Is there someone you're confident in to do the work if you can't? What will the total cost be? Bring a notebook and jot it all down, go home and research what you've found.

I worked a gun counter from age 14 (family friend's store) to age 22 and saw a huge cast of characters walk through the door. One example was two guys we nicknamed ratboy and weasel. Ratboy was all of 5' 4" tall and weasel 6' and gaunt. Every couple weeks they would come in to look at the Beretta 92. Both just "loved the feel" of it. If you're familiar with the 92 you may suspect what's coming: ratboy could not get a firm grip. He also couldn't rack the slide without struggling, could barely reach the trigger and needed the other hand for the slide release. Still, he thought it was what he wanted (local PD carried them was the likely reason though he never did buy anything in a five year period).

I know it's an extreme case (many more like it though) but it goes to show that sometimes we covet things for no good reason.

If you're serious about the 1911 road, don't be afraid to head that direction. A new S&W 1911PD will set you back about $950 but will outlast you with a little care. If plastic is where you want to be an M&P 9Pro (so long as it fits) will give you an excellent platform for target shooting and competition if you so choose for around $625. The M&Ps also have a $50 rebate making it a stone cold bargain.