Quality carry gun

[Jim K]

Every once in a while someone posts about his carry gun being customized, super quality, etc. Maybe such folks might think about this.

If you fire the gun, or even draw it, and especially if you kill or wound someone outside your home, you are going to be arrested. If you have your gun in hand, police will tell you to drop your weapon, and you better do it, or you will be shot.

Police will seize your gun for evidence, even if the shooting was inside your home, and police evidence rooms are not noted for giving TLC to guns.

So what I am saying is that it just might not be a good idea to spend megabucks on a carry gun that could wind up being kicked around on a concrete floor or dropped on the street. It is tough enough to have to wear steel bracelets without wondering if you will ever get back your $3000 pride and joy and what it will look like if you do.

A less expensive carry gun might be a good idea, and maybe one more replaceable if you get the problems resolved and can carry again.

Jim

 

[Standing Wolf]

So what I am saying is that it just might not be a good idea to spend megabucks on a carry gun that could wind up being kicked around on a concrete floor or dropped on the street.

By the same logic, I should drive a beater and wear grungy old clothes.

I believe the odds are very high one's carry gun will never be needed.

 

[Josey]

That is why I carry matte finishes. My Colts and Brownings and even my Llamas were/are plain jane firearms. I rarely wear my BBQ pistol.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Hmmm...

I carry a P11, a Rossi snub .38 &/or a P32. For just those reasons. AND,
I currently drive a 12 yr old Subaru.
I wear clothes I buy in bulk lots on eBay, usually khaki dockers & polos, but bought VERY cheap.

Standing Wolf, should I hold my breath on an invitation to Thanksgiving dinner?

Just messin'
FM

 

[Grunt]

No, I agree that for myself, I'm not going to carry a 2-3 thousand dollar handgun. Hell, I don't have one I carry that cost me over $600 as far as that goes. My usual carry piece (a slightly used HK USP-40 compact) only set me back about $450. On the other hand, I don't want to have to trust my life to a pot metal glorifed zip gun that may or may not work when needed either! I think that everybody needs to find their own balance of what you can afford to loose should your sidearm be bagged as evidence and still be of high enough quality to not let you down. Handguns like Glocks, Springfield XDs, CZ, EAA, Rugers and revolvers are examples of cheaper new quality built handguns. You can also get used quality handguns at great prices, especially in the police trade-in market. I got my Sig P-220 from Keisler's Wholesale for $398 total a month or two ago and it shoots great. For me, you'll probably never see a Les Bear in my holster but I'll be damned if you're gonna find a High Point in there either!!!

 

[R.H. Lee]

Hey, if I'm still alive after a lethal threat encounter I don't care if I lose a $3000 pistol-if I ever would have a $3000 pistol which I would not, or even a $1000 pistol thank you very much

 

[sm]

I had two snubbies spend 48 hours in the "evidence room" once upon a time. The S&W came back quite a bit for wear than I remember last seeing /shooting it. I don't know how copper streaks got in the bbl either, because I stoked it with lead. Of course I figure the electrical tape added was to keep the once nice stocks from cracking further...you don't think it was to protect a shooting hand of another? Nah...

I had last fired 5 rds of Winchester ammo, "that night". I had fired Rem cases in the cylinder when my attorney and I retrieved it later. Later I found out "my gun may or may not have been at the local po-po range over the weekend".

The Win ammo in the Charter arms , tho' removed was still unfired from "that night". I guess the S&W was more "interesting".

Personally I see Jim Kennan's point. It is relative to what a person can afford that makes the price tag subjective I suppose.

Having been on numerous Juries...I have no idea how long the Belgium BHP had been in evidence, being as it was stolen and used maybe the perp did not take care of it...nonetheless...I was so sad to see how this gun ended up.

FWIW my attorney really got on the ball to get my guns back for me that quick. He even went so far to call the Judge at home on the weekend. We arrived at 5:30 am Monday to retrieve mine.

 

[Plinkerton]

That's not cool at all, to have cops "playing" with your guns after they seize them.

If I could carry out here in Kali, I would carry some sort of S&W J-Frame. I definitely wouldn't carry some 3000 piece.

Like it matters though... Stupid Kali...

 

[Rival]

That's what Makarov is for...

 

[HardCOR]

While I would love to have a $3000 dollar handgun, why would ANYONE use such a thing as a self defence weapon? Many dead-stock plain-jane guns would be vastly superior for that kind of use. Especially when you talk about CCW. Those guns have already been mentioned by a previous poster.

$3000 dollar guns are for ego-defence, not self-defence.

What makes a gun worth $3000? Cosmetics? Match grade accuracy? These things don't spell DEFENCE. They spell FUN, they spell TASTE, they spell PRESTIGE, and they might even spell TIGHT GROUPS. These things won't save your ass.

$3000 dollars gets you 1/3 the defence at 3X the price.

IMHO

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Have to agree with Keenan's logic, and I follow it with my carry guns...
my main one being a Frankengun that I cobbled up from various insundry parts. If it were to every wind up in a dealer's display case, it would be one that nobody would give more than passing interest...and probably pass up unless it had a 150 dollar price tag. I wouldn't want to lose the
gun because it's dead reliable...but it wouldn't break my heart if I did.
My carry guns regularly draw chuckles and good-natured ribbing form the
custom and high-end semi-custom crowd... until they shoot'em.

On the point of guns having been obviously fired...That's understandable.
Probably a routine ballistics check to determine whether or not it had ever
been involved in a past shooting...and to add a fired bullet to their database in case it ever is. Taking one to the range and wringing it out
is another matter. I don't mind somebody shooting my guns...but I at least
would like to be asked first.

If the gun is damaged or abused, I wish you luck with any attempt at getting restitution though.

 

[sm]

If a person has money, the disposable income to spend $6K for a Vickers 1911 to carry, more power to them. Yes there are folks with money, that are in serious lines of daily work.

I have seen these types of guns. I have seen and shot 4 custom guns made using Caspian Frame and slides. He had two more 5" guns done and 2 more commander size guns. He has a total of 3 each. The Commander is the BUG, 5" is the primary. This person believes in redundency. Redundent platform ( MOA), also he has backups if a gun should need service or is in the evidence room. The other pair is kept off premise in a safe place. He will have another set done, giving him 4 pairs of exact CCW guns. He can afford it and he chooses quality for his needs and line of ...err...daily activity.

I understand Mr. Kennan and what he is saying. I have had students tap out the credit card and could not afford to shoot, afraid to carry for fear of scratching the gun or getting the holster sweaty. Totally usless for them as a CCW.

The student that bought a used police trade in , say a model 10 or 3913 bought a gun they could afford, not afraid to carry, and not expensive to feed so as to practice.

I always recall the lady buying the mechanicaly sound Model 10 snubby with the finish pretty much worn , found a used holster in the "bargain bin" and had it re-sewn and adapted to fit her hips. She CCW this gun for a long long time, still does. She finally had more money and really wanted a nice 1911 commander size...she bought a duplicate model 10 and a new holster instead. Granted she is better off financially than she once was, figured a dupicate was more important.

Finally got her a 1911 commander size...she carries the revos, some day perhaps she will carry the commander size1911. Actually very sentimental to her that 1911... she is more interested in actual shooting and training, than collecting, she uses the revos for CCW.

 

[ssr]

I have no problem spending that much on a carry gun or carrying it. It all depends upon what one wants. I have one Colt that was customized, bobtailed, checkered, hard chromed, new sights, stuff like that. It's a great shooting pistol and a great carry gun and I can shoot it well, so I carry it. I don't know if I will ever customize a gun that much again. But I wanted it, so i had it done, and it turned out good so I carry it. The other couple guns I carry are all pretty stock, although they still might be relatively expensive 1911s.

If I am ever in a defensive shooting, and I shot someone and killed them, and am alive, well, it's not going to happen that many times in my lifetime, and if I survived, then the gun was worth it, even if it was $2000+.

I believe you should carry the gun that you shoot the best and the one you would want in your hand if things were going bad and you find yourself needing to defend your life, not the cheapest gun that you're willing to loose if it's confiscated. Which gun that is is an individual thing.

 

[Old Fuff]

It’s interesting that Jim, Tuner, and now I all agree with Jim’s position on this issue. All of the handguns that I usually carry look like stock, and for the most part are. I have invested time and money in making sure that they are as reliable as humans can make, that the trigger pulls are smooth, (although not too light) and that they shoot point-of-aim/point-of-impact.

A favorite .45 is built on a Caspian frame and slide with a USGI barrel. The sights are low profile, fixed and carefully zeroed. Finish? It’s bead-blasted and Parkerized.

An old S&W model 10-5 Military & Police looks like a beater. But looks can be, and are deceiving. It can shoot rings around some that I’ve seen that came out of a custom shop or Performance Center. Because of its appearance I suspect it would sit unnoticed in most evidence rooms.

Over my lifetime I have met and known a small number of men who were the “real thing†– modern day gunfighters who had been in numerous exchanges of lead and survived the experience. They had one thing in common. They carried high-quality handguns that often exhibited finish wear, were in perfect mechanical condition, but were otherwise stock. And these men were absolutely deadly.

 

[1911Tuner]

We Three Cabaleros

Another likely inane point is that if you actually have to shoot...and you're
carryin' a 35 hundred dollar showpiece...the shootee's family will figger
that if ya can afford to carry a gun like that, you can pay off a quarter-million dollar settlement. All mine are well-tuned and more accurate than anybody except a very good marksman can prove offhand...but they sure won't win any beauty contests.

Comments? Point/counterpoints?

 

[ssr]

I agree. I think the main point is carry a dependable piece that has the accuracy you need/want that you can shoot well. I think one should carry the gun they want in a fight, regardless of what it is or what it costs. Shooting and surviving is the primary consideration, I think.

 

[El Tejon]

That's just BS!

When I unleash my TacticalMaster2000 upon the hordes of zombies and bears that attack me in the parking lot at Wal-Mart, the police will rush up and pin a medal on my chest and I'll win citizen of the year.

I am a Warrior Prince that need not worry about any consequences of hurting anyone else as I am the only person in the world. This post is nothing but the sissy hand-wringing of someone like El Tejon. Next you'll be telling us to have multiple copies of the same gun or about how problematic the non-existant Problem #2 is.

Besides, I live in Texas and can shoot anyone for any reason. So there!

 

[1911Tuner]

Tejas!

Besides, I live in Texas and can shoot anyone for any reason. So there!

That caps it! I'm movin' to Texas! Gotta be somebody down there that needs shootin'!

...and they're comin' to take me away hahaaaaaa

 

[Safety First]

It's all relative, one will spend what one can afford or some people will spend more than they can afford for a carry gun. Some will spend less, I will probably never own a gun of any kind that cost $3000. You make a good point but as I said it is relative. For me I will spend the most that I can afford to carry a gun that I trust my life too and If I lose it or comes back to me the worse for wear it will still have been worth every dime I paid for it if it helped save my life...Just my 2 cents worth

 

[sm]

Sleeper look myself.

One example is a model 10 snubbie-
External looked like hell, internals are top notch. Fella thought I had "new" titianium revo, I did have stocks on it that fit well. Boy was he shocked to see it was a blue gun...just gotta know where to look to see the bluing. I paid $95 for that police trade in.

Today I carried my Keltec P-11. This is the one I did all that T&E on and folks have commented it looks better than the steel guns I have been known to CCW.

 

[Graystar]

If the gun gives the carrier peace of mind, then it's worth every penny paid.

 

[Jim K]

Some good and thoughtful replies. I confess my post was as much to tweak some of the "I will never give up my super gun" guys as to comment on what may happen to the "super gun" in a shooting.

Someday, I would like to do a gunrag article describing what a licensed (or unlicensed) gun carrier will encounter should he/she have to use his gun. It ain't pretty, and nothing anyone would want to go through unless it was absolutely necessary to save a life.

They wouldn't publish it though; their income depends on pushing gun carry without discussion of responsibility or what happens after a shooting. Lots of print about proper stance, nothing at all about the need for an attorney or what it feels like to have a half dozen cops pointing those "cool" guns at you or how Miranda sounds when it isn't on television and is being recited to you. No wonder some naive readers think we are still in the old west.

Jim

 

[JohnKSa]

I agree.

Things are going to be bad enough without having to wonder what's happening to my expensive "baby" while it's in police custody.

The other good thing about carrying a cheap but high quality gun is you can own two or three that are identical. If one breaks, or is apart for cleaning, or gets shipped off for new sights, or is in the evidence room, you can simply use its twin in the interim.

Anyway, my rule of thumb is that I don't carry or wear anything that's more delicate than I am. I don't want to worry about the stuff that goes with me everywhere--it's there to take care of me, not the other way around.

 

[sm]

Jim Keenan

I respectfully suggest you write the article.
I feel this is a great topic and needs to be written and shared.

I'm going to step out of bounds here perhaps - Contact our own Denny and see what he and Rich think about it for SWAT.

Apologizes to Rich and Denny , if out of bounds. I still feel the subject is serious enough, and SWAT "prints it as it is - not as folks want it to be".

 

[Chris Rhines]

I'm not directing this post at anyone in particular, but I've often detected a hint of envy and bitterness running through these types of threads - i.e. "I can't afford a zillion-dollar full-custom gun, so I'm going to denigrate anyone who carries one."

I've shot $3000 custom raceguns, and I've shot $300 box-stock Rugers and Makarovs. The $3000 guns have been superior in accuracy, shootability, and reliability. Complaining about this does not make it untrue. Whether or not that makes the $3000 gun superior for your own purposes is, of course, up to you.

That said, if I pour three grand into a single gun, it'd better be able to handle being kicked around or dropped on the pavement.

More to the point, if my budget for a defensive gun were $3000, no way in hell would I dump it all into one pistol. Two $1500 pistols would be a much smarter purchase. Better yet would be two $800 pistols (much below that and it becomes tough to get a good 1911a1) and spend the balance on leather, ammo, and training.

Bottom line - pay your money, make your choices.

- Chris