Question about undesirable criminal neighbors

[Avalanche2082]

First, I hope this is posted in the right section. I have a situation I'm not sure of how to deal with. I bought a condo about a year and a half ago. Almost a year after moving in the developer decided to start renting the unpurchased units. Needless to say its a 3 story condo and I'm in the middle (2nd floor). Some people (renters) moved in above me they would stomp, had dogs that barked, and used the bathroom on the lanai which is like a deck and is not a solid surface so you see the problem, they always had there windows opened so you could hear all conversations, cursing, had people over to visit and the older children would run up and down the stairs which made my entire unit shake, also sounded like they would throw furniture or drop things from their loft on to the floor below which is my roof...etc., they had no respect for their neighbors. Their friends would knock on my door after 11pm mistaking it for theres, our front doors are almost next to each other, and worst of all the male who lived there was a felon and had been in prison for a couple years, and was out on parole, found this out after a parole officer came knocking on my door at 10pm looking for him mistaking doors. He was a drug dealer, and I was afraid to leave my girlfriend home alone thinking an upset coked up druggie may mistake our doors and try to break it down or shoot it. Usually where there are drugs there are guns, and it looked like he was still dealing by the amount of people in and out of there unit every 5 mins. I didn't know what to do to deal with it, I was afriad of retaliation, on my unit, or girlfriend or, my vechicle. I had occationally asked them to please walk a little lighter, or would tell them I could hear them talking, but they never stopped. I tried to tell the property manager and she laughed in my face, when I told her I had felons living about me and how inconsiderate they were. She told me there was nothing she could do about it. Well needless to say he and his girlfriend got arrested for selling and manufacturing and he was kept in jail for violation of probation and she was let out, and obviously she could afford the rent anymore with out him and she dipped out on the rent before they could evict her. I am afraid of this happening again. And am wondering what I should do with the next renters who move in what should I say to them when they move in, should I tell the complex anything, I am a gun toting citizen but the people I had before were terrible. I just don't want another couple months or even a year of hell like I had. Has anyone had a situation like this happen to them, if so what did you do, any suggestions for me? I don't want to say something and they retaliate on me in some way or just do it worse because they don't care. If new renters do start stomping should I do the same to the people below me so they complain to and maybe the complex will get the point. I have also asked that while the unit it vacant right now they lay some sort of sound mat down. Also a neighbor of mine who is a owner is having the same problem with the renter above her and she lives alone. Thanks for any suggestion you may have and sorry for such a long story.

 

[coloradokevin]

I hate to say it, but you have to decide if it is a battle you want to fight or not.

Some options:

1) Do nothing (this hasn't worked well for you)

2) Talk to them about the problem (also didn't work in the past)

3) Talk to the property manager (also didn't work in the past)

4) Call in an anonymous noise complaint to the police. In most areas the police can't cite without a complainant signing for a "disturbance of the peace", but they can show up and give the noisey neighbors a hard time... the neighbors might still figure out that it was you who called, but that is a risk you'll have to decide to take.

5) Call the police and tell them that you'll sign a complaint. Follow through and the problem neighbor can be cited for Disturbing the Peace, or whatever your local statute is. They will know that this was you at this point, but will have a greater incentive to stop making noise.

6) If you observe possible criminal activity, report it. There is nothing that dope dealers hate more than having the police hanging around all day. Be the squeaky wheel.


Lets face it, sometimes you get a raw deal in life. At the very least, you are armed, which gives you an edge on many of the unprotected sheep (if they did try to retaliate against you). But, only you can decide if this situation is a "fight" you are willing to engage in (making an issue of the noise issue, that is).

Some of the problems you mention will be hard to deal with. For example, as an officer I couldn't cite the neighbor for their kids making too much noise by running around the apartment. Amplified music, yes... foot traffic, no.


My wife and I live across the street from some single-family public housing authority homes (essentially welfare homes in the 'burbs). One is a great neighbor, and one is a pain-in-the-butt. The idiots in the one house like to play their music loud (mostly just bass, if you can call it music). Most of the time it is only for a few minutes, and we ignore it. But, my wife felt the need to call the police one afternoon when it went on for an hour or so, at a volume significant enough to shake our windows (again, we are in a single family brick home, across the street... at least a 50 foot distance from the noise!).

I'm pretty sure that they figured out who called it in, despite my wife not signing a formal complaint with our responding officer. But, I really don't care. There is a certain point at which their actions became completely unreasonable, and we don't fear them... And, after having police contact, the noise issue went away for quite some time!

 

[Thernlund]

I was going to respond, but Kev pretty laid it out. +1.


-T.

 

[gunmn74]

My dad was in a similar situation in Aurora Colorado. The goverment closed
and old military base and turned it over to the city who turned all the
bases housing into low income and the bigger buildings into homeless
shelters. With that change my Dad's condo which was just down the road
turned into drug dealer paridise.
All the owners got together and bought on of the rentals, then they found a
Police officer who was a single father and let him live there rent free.
Some of the scum left in short order and the rest he kept an eye on until
he had enough evidence for no knock warants and then they were toast.
He made sure he took care of the place he lived and every one else was
happy.
I wish you luck with your situation but my best advise is to move while that
unit is vacant and there is not a problem there that could hurt your sale.

 

[leadcounsel]

So, if I understand the bad tenants moved out and the unit is vacant?

You're learning the hard way not to buy a lower floor condo that is wood construction. I too had a similar situation where I owned the bottom floor unit and my upstairs neighbors fought and stomped around day and night. I would often be awoken to their fighting and stomping and slamming doors. It sucked.

You cannot expect to resolve the situation by talking to them or phoning the cops. Honestly, it's human nature. Anything you do will just pi$$ them off. Think of how you would like it if someone came over and repeatedly told you how to behave in your own house. It's a raw deal.

1. Get involved on the homeowners association or at least go to meetings. Demand that the vacant units get sold and not rented. Rentals reduce everyones property values and you can rally the other owners around you. Look in the property owners bylaws to see if they are allowed to rent or rent out a certain % of units. Many bylaws require/allow only like 25% of the units be rented and 75% be owned. If they are silent on the issue you can move to change them to prohibit the vacant units from being rented.

2. Be a complete A$$ to anyone coming to view the unit to rent it. Be such a jerk that it scares off potential renters. Yes, it's hardball, but you don't want to get stuck with bad renters like before. Consider even putting up an obnoxious sign on your front door or some offensive things on your patio to scare off renters. It may also scare off buyers though. Buyers will be better, but maybe not much better. But a vacant unit next door is better than a unit full of loud obnoxious neighbors.

3. Take your lumps and move. Housing market stinks for sellers now, but you may consider selling the unit while the neighbors is vacant. Buyers won't buy it if it's filled with crackheads and loud obnoxious people. But they may buy if the next door unit is vacant and quiet.

4. Again, disputes with neighbors are never pretty. Today it's the noise. Tomorrow your car mysteriously got scratched. Then your dog ends up poisoned. Next you come home to a broken window. It's guerilla warfare against ugly people that don't care if they go to jail and know how to push the law to the limits to harrass and intimidate others. That's why decent folks like you tend to move out of sh1t neighborhoods the moment they can afford to.

 

[tepin]

Sell!

 

[cerberus65]

See if they'll let you trade your 2nd floor unit for the unit above. Then you don't have to worry about folks stomping on the roof. If that works, though, just be sure to be the neighbor above that you always wished for.

I also really like gunmn74's solution! Talk about a win, win situation!

 

[FN5.7shooter]

If you can get others together and hire security that is a good way. Unfortunately most of your neighbors don't want to be the security guard.
I get a kick out of the people who say move. Move where? The possiblity of these conditions exist everywhere. Tell me where one can move and be assured a trouble free existance. Even the quiet neighborhood you live in now has had its share of creeps over time. So you move around to different places until your money runs out then hope the place you moved too last is quiet then creeps move in next door a year later and you can't move because you are out of moving money. Moving or sale is hardly an answer.
In my neighborhood we had a HOA Board Member and his son who were the problem. With a little investigation what we found out was that the son was on probation for residental burglary, his license to drive was suspended and he had no vehicle insurance. One call to his probation officer with a video of him going twice the speed limit and he got to spend some time in jail and then moved.
His father was a racist who had been in the newspaper over a public incident. Once he knew we knew of his racist actions he sold and left. Some neighbors meet with him and his wife in the park behind his house and asked them to sell and leave.
Get info on the creeps through public info. Most bad actors have a past that will trip them up. If not get them a past by call the police often. You will be developing a paper trail. Don't worry about them keying your car you have a good camera on it 24/7 right. Put the car right out where they can get to it easy and you can get good face shots. The video equipment and car repair/trade will be less money than moving out and will put the creeps on notice you are not the one to mess with. Get them on probation for vandalism.
Also use video to document what they do to threaten you or damage your possesions. Video is your friend.
Good luck and don't move.

 

[Treo]

I have lived next to bad neighbors like this for 8 years , luckily in single family homes. I've had to deal W/ trash in my yard, people driving over my yard, people comming and going at all hours of the night, the odor of weed wafting through the neighborhood ( & I DO mean the whole neighborhood) at night & so on.

These folks have had Child Protective Services, The Police, Code enforcement , the Police again. & now social services is over there every week.

What I've seen is that their behavior changes long enough to get whoever off their back then they revert to form.

Unfortunately their mortgage is subsidized by a father who is trying to keep them from moving in W/ him, so they're not leaving.

So call it what you will I AM as soon as I can afford it I'm getting 5 acres up in the mountians. Yes there will be people like that up there but I'm hoping the five acres will be some what of a buffer.

 

[Mainsail]

First, I hope this is posted in the right section.

No, not even the right forum since it really has nothing to do with firearms. Nonetheless, I feel for you, it's a sucky situation.

 

[nccavediver]

Crap like this is an abhorrent condition that started with the birth of organized agriculture. Sorry but there's no turning back now, get a bigger gun.

 

[Avalanche2082]

Thanks for your replies I really agree with treo I want to get 100 acres in WY and get away from everything. It does seem everytime I move it get worse. Also FN5.7 your idea about the camera, I did that and was told by property manager to take it down or I would be fined, but it sure did stop them above for awhile and I told the property manager why I had them up there and how they reacted to it and she just said she wanted it down it against the rules and regulations and i'd be fined.

Do you guys think I should bluff a new renter if they start making obsessive noise up there that certain projectiles are gong to come through there floor of course it is a bluff I would never ever do something like that, and I know it could esclate violence, but I its just a really sucky situation and I'm feed up with it I work from home and am just waiting for the day when someone moves in and destroys the peace I have gotten back for awhile. I feel for all you who have had to deal with or are dealing with things like this.

Is there anything legally that could happen to me if I said that, NOT act on it but said that?

 

[leadcounsel]

Do you guys think I should bluff a new renter if they start making obsessive noise up there that certain projectiles are gong to come through there floor

Are you serious? First, that's not very wise because they could just as easily shoot back or threaten to shoot back. Second, by saying that you've just committed a serious crime - you've threatened them with deadly force for making too much noise. :banghead:

Place a throwaway untraceable handgun under the seat of his car and then put an anonymous call into the police about someone who waved a gun at you in traffic just moments ago. You won't see or hear from him again for a few years depending on the state you're in.

This is another VERY BAD idea for so many reasons. :banghead:

 

[Treo]

C4talyst

QUOTE: - deleted. lpl/nc

I notice that this was your first post. I want to say welcome to THR but I think I'll recomend that you go back and read the forum rules first. The mods tend to get very snippy when you start offering illegal answers to life's little problems

Avalanche
In Colorado such a threat would be considered brandishing a weapon ( they don't have to see it all you have to do is verbally threaten them W/it). You'd loose your Gun, your freedom AND your RKBA .

 

[TRB]

This is not a difficult problem. You either stay or go.

If the neighborhood is not the kind you wish to live in then you must leave. If financial loss is part of the deal so be it. Consider the money lost as the cost of the lesson.

If you like the neighborhood then you should stay. If you stay, understand that changing what you do not like will take a lot of energy and organization on your part. That activity will expose you to the element that you are trying to quell. You may not be successful in affecting those changes.

The hard part is making the decision. The easy part is doing it.

 

[sacp81170a]

Get a lawyer and check into the rules. If there are rules that the property management is refusing to enforce such that the lack of enforcement deprives you of the enjoyment of your property, you may have a cause of action. If the terms of the lease agreement violate the condo's rules(I doubt that they will), then you might be able to get the lease voided. Otherwise, stand up for your rights. It may cost some money up front, but would you rather stay and enjoy your property in safety or would you rather sell at a loss? They might laugh you off, but they won't laugh off a court order.

Report, report, report, every disturbance to the police. It's not for the purpose of getting the police to do much of anything(in some places there's not much they can do) but for the purpose of getting your complaints documented. Going into court with a couple of reams of 911 calls and incident reports will carry a whole lot more weight than just saying that they're keeping you up at night.

 

[CWL]

Start going to the Association meetings, get elected as an officer if you can. The property managers are hired at the whim of the Homeowners Board. Get involved.

Be pushy at the meetings. Start having the Association enforce the CCR's including the ones for noise and cleanliness, etc. All condo associations probably have enough existing rules in the CCR's to have the Owner of the unit above you fined for every infraction made by their tenants.

Have this contacted to the Owner that it'll start costing them unless they are more careful with who they choose as tenants. Also be sure to remind them of legal liabilities for tenant activities. Things never happen until it starts costing people money.

Lastly, you need to use more paragraphs! Good Luck!

 

[JoeSlomo]

The ONLY solution to your problem is to MOVE!

Move into something that DOESN'T have people living above you.

OR you can stay where you are at and continue to live a life disrupted by others. The choice is yours.

 

[bdickens]

Do you guys think I should bluff a new renter if they start making obsessive noise up there that certain projectiles are gong to come through there floor of course it is a bluff I would never ever do something like that, and I know it could esclate violence, but I its just a really sucky situation and I'm feed up with it I work from home and am just waiting for the day when someone moves in and destroys the peace I have gotten back for awhile. I feel for all you who have had to deal with or are dealing with things like this.

Is there anything legally that could happen to me if I said that, NOT act on it but said that?

It depends. Do you think you'd like prison?

 

[Sniper X]

Don;t lower yourself by making idle threats because that in itself is illegal and even if they are the true criminals, you'll be the one to go to jail! I'd call the renters rights people in your city and ask them for guidence. I think that all cities now have renters rights to cover just this situation and they go after the landlord, who actually knows now she rented to the wrong people and will probably not do it again if the renters rights people let her know they know what is going on there now.

 

[Primersinmyshoe]

Can you buy the unit above you? You can then move into it and rent the lower one.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Using some sort of paragraph structure would increase the likelihood of me actually reading your post.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Avalanche2082, where do you come up with this stuff? Threaten the new renters? That's up there with your idea one might claim to be insane if involved in a self-defense shooting, your question about what would happen if a church group formed a conspiracy against you , ways to avoid a blood test for drugs or alcohol on religious grounds, whether you can get body armor by Hanes or Fruit of the Loom so it won't smell bad, or the ever practical question about body armor with groin protection for CCWers.

Are you just yanking our collective chain or do these questions seriously weigh heavily on you mind?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Paragraphs, punctuation, and capitalization might help.

 

[Clipper]

After looking into the links jorg provided, my head hurts. Glad there's an ignore feature...