RANT! Handgun laws bite me once again.

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ljnowell- And why is that?
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I only do face to face sales with someone under certain circustances. I would not sell a pistol to an 18 year old that I did not know. There are many 21 year olds that I wouldnt sell a pistol to either. I have turned people down because they show up with pants around thier knees and whatnot too.
 
dnlgao said:
I cannot stand peoples ignorance on the gun laws in the state i live in and im sure all over the country. In Kansas, and in MANY states, as an 18 year old, you are allowed to purchase a handgun through private sale.

So ive tried numerous amounts of times to purchase another .22lr handgun, and every single time i get ready to fill out a bill of sale, i have people gripe about how illegal it is and talk to me as if i am ignorant. Ive researched the law, have written statements from both local LEO's, atf agents located in the states, as well as state troopers. I also amwilling to provide this information, yet people just are naive and wont listen. Its so frustrating. The amount of people who go into cabellas and bass pro shop and buy a handgun with no training and are completely clueless, yet someone who has handled firearms safely and has training, cannot purchase simply because they are 18? I find this extremely annoying and frustrating.

Anyway, Rant over. How do you guys feel as selling and buying to an 18 year old? Am i just naive here?

PS. If you have a Sig Mosquito, or Walther P22 in kansas, ill buy it from you.
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They are doing you a favor.

Get a ruger mkiii
 
dnlgao,

It has been a lot of years since I was your age but I still remember the slights of only being considered half an adult at that age. This is from the perspective of someone that turned 18 while serving in the Marines.

Keep in mind someone twenty-one or older can't buy the gun with the intent to transfer it to you. That would be a straw buy.

As to the law, print out the sections that address your situation and bring it with you on future purchase attempts. Maybe it will help, maybe not.

Clutch
 
I won't let anyone under 21 into my store unless they are active military or with parents. Just not worth it, imo.
 
I think people should be allowed to buy handguns and alcohol at age 18. Also, they should be allowed to participate in casino gambling and any other 21yrs old restricted things.

You can vote, join the military, get married, sign legally binding contracts and for all other purposes are considered to be legally an adult. It is absurd to think that in the army you can be issued an M9 and sent to war BUT when you get back you can't buy your own handgun and have a beer to celebrate making it home alive.
 
@gbw
my choice would be 24 or thereabouts for males
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id bet good money you werent thinkin like that when you were 18
why at 18...an age that used to mean you should be ready to go forth into the world and be your own man, should one be denied a means of self defense, but you would rather that he wait an additional 6 years to be able to acquire those means
that doesnt make much sense to me
im a college student right now (21) and i would not happy if i were denied the right to have a gun for my apartment until i was graduating college
 
personally, I think its unconstitutional that a responsible, legal adult cannot purchase a handgun from a retail store. I'm pretty sure the NRA is filing (had filed?) some lawsuit about this. fingers crossed
 
Wow. Intense thread. It sucks trying to buy a pistol under 21. Ammo is almost even harder to get! I had one 50rd box of .357SIG and two magazines. I barely even got to practice. My opinion is this: 3 years is a long time, but before you know it, you'll be 21. Save up some money every month starting now until your 21st birthday, and drop some serious change on the gun that you want. Say you save up $1,500. You can buy a beautiful gun, and tons of accessories and ammo. It will be worth it. Quit browsing all the ads, and deciding that you're going to pay the guy a little extra to make sure he sells to you, mainly because that limits your options of what you're going to buy. If you seriously want a pistol now though, your best bet is finding private sales at a gun show. Go everyday they're open. And yes, bring extra cash than the gun is worth. Bring all your documents as well. http://www.gunshows-usa.com/kansas_gun_shows.htm
 
I'm 20, so I have a little while to go before I'm treated like a person responsible enough for a handgun. I absolutely am already, and have been for a few years. But I know quite a few people my own age and a little older and a little younger and the truth is: I wouldn't sell a handgun to many of them either, no way. Some people just aren't mature enough to handle it and if you don't get the chance to know them, you're usually better off assuming they're a dumbass or a loon in this political scene than taking the money and handing them the gun. If only for fear of it being on TV the next day that it was used in the latest public shooting spree. Then who is everyone looking at? Even if it were legal, do you think people would just shrug it off and blame the guy actually responsible? They never do that!

I wish it weren't so. I wish I could just go out and buy what will be my CCW gun now, but I've got to wait. Just another five months and twenty-four days...
 
Tell all the soldiers and LEO under 21 they aren't responsible enough to have gun. Sickening. Really sickening.

The reason you hear about all the bad situations with people under 21years old and handguns IS THE SAME REASON you hear about all the other bad situations involving handguns. It is good for TV ratings and they are NOT a normal occurance. They don't report about it when river don't flood, cars don't crash, banks don't get robbed and people don't commit crimes. Ordinary things aren't news and don't get coverage.

How can people be so aware of the media's backward spin at one time and simply oblivious at another time?

The idea of being 21 years old to buy a handgun IS simply a GUN CONTROL law that should be removed from the books.

By show of hands, who had OR could of had (if they wanted it) the ability to access, use, obtain, practice, etc a handgun BEFORE the age of 21?

Almost EVERYBODY, huh?

Okay, by show of hands how many harmed/would have harmed somebody with that handgun?

Almost NOBODY, huh?

Now go ponder that conversation!

Guns aren't bad. They are inanimate objects. It's the people who use them wrongly that are bad. We need to do more about the real problem.
 
Bottom line? Nobody is REQUIRED to sell you anything. If they aren't comfortable making the sale they can walk away, for any or NO reason whatsoever.

John
 
InkEd said:
Tell all the soldiers and LEO under 21 they aren't responsible enough to have gun. Sickening. Really sickening.
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The overwhelming majority of LE agencies I've interacted with will not hire officers under 21. Here in Texas, Soldiers over 18 but under 21 are allowed to get their CCW permit - which obviates many of the concerns listed in this thread. With a CCW, no background check is required, and the seller has a greater degree of confidence in the buyer, as he or she has already passed the background and training requirements.
 
In DE. Your not allowed to own a pistol until your 21. But can own a shot gun when your 18. However your allowed to be "gifted" a pistol when your 18-21.

I spoke to state police and the ATF. They said as long as I have a letter from my parent who purchased it that they knew it was in my control and stated what it was to be used for (going along with the Firearms Regulations Reference Guide from the ATF-transportation and firing range). That they see to their best knowledge that it's legal.

It's a catch 22. I'm not allowed to be given a pistol when I'm under 21, but I'm allowed to be gifted it. It's such a grey area of the law that isn't defined. Very annoying.
 
There is actually case with the supreme court about the 21 age for a pistol purchase in most states because it's "violating" our civil liberties. Especially since you can buy a shotgun at 18. I see both sides to it. Just annoying.
 
gbw said:
I'm with the the sellers on this one and would not sell a gun, nor approve of anyone else selling one, to anyone 18 (or 19, or 20, or 21). Exceptions are possible but they would be rare. Same reasons insurance companies don't like to insure them, and car rental companies won't rent cars to them, and banks don't like to lend to them. History and experience say it's a bad bet.
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I have long been of the mind that if 18 year olds are alright to go to war and be maimed or killed they should be OK to buy a beer or a gun and anything else older people are allowed to do. The business about not trusting them because they're a bad risk is humbug. If they can't have the perks of being 21 or older we should not send them, hypocritically, to war while we sit at home in relative safety.
 
Thlax said:
In DE. Your not allowed to own a pistol until your 21. But can own a shot gun when your 18. However your allowed to be "gifted" a pistol when your 18-21.

I spoke to state police and the ATF. They said as long as I have a letter from my parent who purchased it that they knew it was in my control and stated what it was to be used for (going along with the Firearms Regulations Reference Guide from the ATF-transportation and firing range). That they see to their best knowledge that it's legal.

It's a catch 22. I'm not allowed to be given a pistol when I'm under 21, but I'm allowed to be gifted it. It's such a grey area of the law that isn't defined. Very annoying.
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You are very mistaken regarding Delaware statutes. There is no statute prohibiting an 18 to 20 year old person from owning a handgun. There is no statute prohibiting an 18 to 20 year old from purchasing a handgun from another Delaware resident in a private sale or from receiving a handgun as a gift from any other Delaware resident. The only prohibition regarding 18 to 20 year old persons and handguns in Delaware is the Federal statute which prohibits an FFL from transferring a handgun to a person under 21 years of age.

Source:
http://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/index.shtml

§ 1448. Possession and purchase of deadly weapons by persons prohibited; penalties.
(5) Any juvenile, if said deadly weapon is a handgun, unless said juvenile possesses said handgun for the purpose of engaging in lawful hunting, instruction, sporting or recreational activity while under the direct or indirect supervision of an adult. For the purpose of this subsection, a handgun shall be defined as any pistol, revolver or other firearm designed to be readily capable of being fired when held in 1 hand;
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and

§ 1445. Unlawfully dealing with a dangerous weapon; unclassified misdemeanor.
(4) The person sells, gives or otherwise transfers to a child under 18 years of age a firearm or ammunition for a firearm, unless the person is that child's parent or guardian, or unless the person first receives the permission of said parent or guardian
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There is no statute which prohibits an 18 to 20 year old from open carrying a handgun in Deleware (although there may be older, local ordinances which existed prior to July 4, 1985).

In fact, in Delaware, the age limit for a license to carry a concealed deadly weapon (CCW) is 18!

§ 1441. License to carry concealed deadly weapons.

(a) A person of full age and good moral character desiring to be licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon for personal protection or the protection of the person's property may be licensed to do so when the following conditions have been strictly complied with:
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Go back to whomever told you the FUDD that you repeated here and ask them to provide the statutes making what they claim to be illegal.
 
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Maturity, i feel, is a mindset. Not an age. Theres no rule in any book that says that at the age of 21, Joe will suddenly become a perfect citizen and lose his immature ways from 1 day ago. It just doesn't work like that. For example today, when i went to the range (i do own a Taurus 9mm), the guy next to me who had the gun pointed at himself when loading it and finger on the trigger before he was on target, probably had 0 problems attaining that gun. Yet, i get treated like a irresponsible idiot. Thats exactly how people have become judged and that is not fair. But thats neither here nor there. What is IN FACT wrong, is the expectation to send soliders that are under 21, give them weapons and say defend our country, and take rights from them when they return. Being Chinese, fluent in mandarin and having lived there, with a 94 on the asvab, the government tried rigorously to have me in the service. Many reasons including this one, sent me to my decision to politely decline. To those of you are under 21 that are in the service who defend our country, thank you for your service and putting your life on the line for our freedom, and i would be extremely upset if i were you.

Anyway, to those people who say they would never sell to anyone under 21, all ive heard is how about 18 year olds are immature. Do you profile all the 21 year olds that want to buy? Do you quiz them with questions to make sure that they are "mature"? People can assume all they want, and thats perfectly up to them. But after i called 2 state sheriffs, 2 atf agents, 2 local law enforcement officers and provide documentation, you would think that people might take a second to listen. My sources and documentation arent just names and phone numbers either. The times of the conversations, the dates, what was said, the length of the conversation, time, name. Everything i have documented. One atf agent actually ran the serial number on the Taurus for me prior to my purchase. Is that not enough?
 
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ljnowell said:
Dont blame it on them, blame it on the govt.
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No, this is Kansas ... feel free to blame the people. I still contend that left to its own devices the state of Kansas would become a Totalitarian Socialist Theocracy.

dnlgao, just add this to the list of reasons you'll eventually want to leave Kansas (took me way too long to learn these lessons ... was born there in August of 1969 and finally escaped in August of 2002 ... of course it looks like Colorado will soon be just as bad but for other reasons :banghead: ).
 
Just spoke to the police. They said when a person under 21, yet over 18, receives a gun from a father. That's all the needs to happen. No papers no nothing. Since theres no registration in DE theres no transfer of ownership. Just a gift. Plain and simple. They said you may want to have a notarized letter from the father saying you received or bought it from them but thats it.
 
Thanks NAVYLT. I'm actually starting my CCW process now. Thought I had to wait 1 more year until 21 but it turns out I don't!

Thanks-

Now side note-weird that I cant legally buy a handgun-but I can legally receive it as a gift from my father (in which I did) and I can CCW before 21. Oh the law is interesting.
 
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