RANT! Handgun laws bite me once again.

[easyg]

How do you guys feel as selling and buying to an 18 year old?

I would neither sell a handgun to an 18 year old, nor buy a handgun from an 18 year old.

Yes, I understand that he Constitution says that an 18 year old can vote and can join the military, but the Constitution cannot determine if any given 18 year old is responsible enough to own a handgun or not.

I work in a hospital as an radiologic technologist, and I have "X-rayed" quite a lot of young guys between the ages of 16 and 21....often injured from the result of some incredibly stupid act, where too often emotion overcame intellect.

I also remember back when I was 18 myself (and a young soldier too), and how reckless I was....

No.
In my opinion, a young man of 18 simple doesn't have enough years behind him for me to feel comfortable selling him a handgun.

You may not agree with me, but that's my honest opinion.

Easy

 

[NavyLCDR]

Now side note-weird that I cant legally buy a handgun

Again, there is no Delaware or Federal statute that prohibits an 18 to 20 year old from PURCHASING a handgun! It's perfectly legal for you to purchase a handgun from any other Delaware resident.

BTW, "full age" as used in the CCW permit statute is defined in Delaware State law:
http://delcode.delaware.gov/title1/c003/index.shtml

§ 302. Definitions.

In the construction of this Code and of all other statutes of this State, unless the context requires a different meaning:
(3) "Full age" means the age of 18 years or older.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Double tap.

 

[Thlax]

Once again. Thanks for the info. A little disconcerting I've spoken to state police 4 different times and got mildly different answers. As I am 20 and not 21, I wanted to be 110% sure I was obeying the law, as guns are obviously something everyone should take extremely serious. Looks like all is cleared up and I'm looking foward to wonderful Friday afternoons after classes at the range practicing.

 

[Thlax]

-what I meant from purchase was in context of purchasing from a gun shop. Not private sale. Sorry for not clarifying!

 

[kingpin008]

A little disconcerting I've spoken to state police 4 different times and got mildly different answers.

This is why you should never ask a cop for legal advice. It's not their job. Yes, they deal with the law, but in a completely different capacity. For an accurate answer to a specific legal question, your best bet is to look up the relevant info yourself or consult a lawyer.

 

[dnlgao]

I guess its person to person. But judgments such as easg's is exactly my problem. Why not at least give a chance? Just because you acted like an immature child at the age of 18, does not mean that i do the same. I live on my own, own my own car, pay my own bills and go to school full time and have never touched a drop of alcohol or spent a day in court, or rides in the back of a police car. Explain to me what you do as an "adult" that i dont? What do these "years" do?

 

[Thlax]

Everyone had their own "when I was 18" experience. Like you I live alone with my dog I take care of. Pay for my car and car insurance. Thankfully my parents have helped with school. But I am told I act like a 50year old man from my friends in joke.

So once again, to each their own, and it's not the age that matters to me, it's their level of responsibility, judgment, and character.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Well I got my drivers license, I nearly broke my leg, I was carrying a M16
and exercising every day, sometimes both at the same time

Jumping out of planes, and all that on uncle sams dime.
it's more on the person than the age, I know people who are older than me I wouldn't sell a gun to, and I include my older brother in that.

 

[Xfire68]

If your old enough to vote and register for selective service then you should be able to do anything anyone else in this country can.

I also think if your old enough to die from this great country you should be able to legally buy a beer or better yet be able to except the beer I would gladly buy you!

 

[easyg]

I guess its person to person. But judgments such as easg's is exactly my problem. Why not at least give a chance? Just because you acted like an immature child at the age of 18, does not mean that i do the same. I live on my own, own my own car, pay my own bills and go to school full time and have never touched a drop of alcohol or spent a day in court, or rides in the back of a police car. Explain to me what you do as an "adult" that i dont? What do these "years" do?

Have you ever gotten so angry that you lashed out physically at another person?

Have you ever had your heart broken and felt like the it was the end of the world and that you didn't want to live anymore?

Have you ever raised your hand in anger at a very close friend, or a relative like your father or your brother?

Have you ever decided to do something that might just get you killed, just for the hell of it?

Have you ever thought that facing off against four other young strong guys was a "fair fight"?

Have you ever lost a physical fight?

Have you ever won a physical fight only to later realize that you really didn't win?

Have you ever did something really crazy or really stupid just to impress a girl?

Have you ever committed a crime that you knew could land you in prison for quite a few years?

Have you ever did something that your parents taught you not to do?

 

[doc2rn]

Have you ever gotten so angry that you lashed out physically at another person?
Sure when I was in the service.

Have you ever had your heart broken and felt like the it was the end of the world and that you didn't want to live anymore?
Who hasnt? Didnt wanna make me eat a gun either.

Have you ever raised your hand in anger at a very close friend, or a relative like your father or your brother?
Grandpa would have turned over in his grave if I ever did that

Have you ever decided to do something that might just get you killed, just for the hell of it?
Yup I joined the military

Have you ever thought that facing off against four other young strong guys was a "fair fight"?
No but they did

Have you ever lost a physical fight?
Yes but it was 3 on 1

Have you ever won a physical fight only to later realize that you really didn't win?
Yes when I was 13

Have you ever did something really crazy or really stupid just to impress a girl?
Nope Grandpa always said dont chase women or busses cause you wont catch either.

Have you ever committed a crime that you knew could land you in prison for quite a few years?
No
Have you ever did something that your parents taught you not to do?
Not since I was 10

Things where different back before you needed two incomes just to stay afloat in the current economic times. Boys got rifles at age 10 and would often be found fishing on weekends before it was liscenced to death.

 

[dnlgao]

Have you ever gotten so angry that you lashed out physically at another person?

Have you ever had your heart broken and felt like the it was the end of the world and that you didn't want to live anymore?

Have you ever raised your hand in anger at a very close friend, or a relative like your father or your brother?

Have you ever decided to do something that might just get you killed, just for the hell of it?

Have you ever thought that facing off against four other young strong guys was a "fair fight"?

Have you ever lost a physical fight?

Have you ever won a physical fight only to later realize that you really didn't win?

Have you ever did something really crazy or really stupid just to impress a girl?

Have you ever committed a crime that you knew could land you in prison for quite a few years?

Have you ever did something that your parents taught you not to do?

No.

 

[HankR]

even CCW in some states

and even open carry (in some states) at the age of 18



At least in South Dakota, one may acquire a concealed pistol permit at the age of 18. Many states stipulate that they will not grant reciprocity to SD permit holders under the age of 18.

 

[tinygnat219]

I only do private sales to family and very very old and close friends and that's WITH a bill of sale and copying the ID number down on the bill of sale. I'd NEVER do a private sale with someone I didn't know. Sorry, with the law being the way it is, caution seems to be the watchword of the day. Just be patient. Soon, you'll be 21.

 

[easyg]

No.

You're 18 and you answered no to all of that???

IMO, that's not normal.

 

[al123]

Random thoughts:

A lot of firearm laws, especially related to handguns don't make sense to me, but in some states, it's much worse than others. The law-abiding are given all kinds of restrictions - some of it confusing, while those who choose to ignore it go on doing what they're doing. The under-21 laws are at least straight-forward.

I wish I had the same health as when I was 21 though. But now we're in the realm of wishful thinking.

 

[dnlgao]

You're 18 and you answered no to all of that???

IMO, that's not normal.

Allow me to reiterate, just because you, or the 18 year olds you knew, were immature and acted like an idiot at 18, doesnt mean that i do the same.

Have you ever gotten so angry that you lashed out physically at another person?
A: Never gotten in an fight, always been able to get myself out of the situation.

Have you ever had your heart broken and felt like the it was the end of the world and that you didn't want to live anymore?
A: Mom left on my birthday when i was 4, i got through that. The only thing that would feel like the end of the world where i couldnt get over it, would be.. well, the end of the world.


Have you ever raised your hand in anger at a very close friend, or a relative like your father or your brother?
A: Never.

Have you ever decided to do something that might just get you killed, just for the hell of it?
A: No. You're not immature if you did, you're an idiot.

Have you ever thought that facing off against four other young strong guys was a "fair fight"?
A: See answer 1
Have you ever lost a physical fight?
A: See answer 1
Have you ever won a physical fight only to later realize that you really didn't win?
A: See answer 1
Have you ever did something really crazy or really stupid just to impress a girl?
A: If she likes you for acting like an idiot, common sense tells me that, she too; is an idiot.
Have you ever committed a crime that you knew could land you in prison for quite a few years?
A: Never.
Have you ever did something that your parents taught you not to do?
A: Parents never told me NOT to do something, just face the consequences if i did.

 

[Onward Allusion]

http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=134499

dnlgao
RANT! Handgun laws bite me once again.

It's personal preference whether a gun owner decides or feels comfortable selling a handgun to someone between 18 & 21. I can tell you that I only sell my guns via FFL Holders because I'm anti-social and just don't want to deal with buyers of any age directly.

 

[Thlax]

By selling FFL they are all over 21 because you can't FFL to an under 21 year old.

They're are some shops who won't sell to parents when they know they're gifting it to <21. There are some that will. Managers choice.

 

[Bovice]

But adult rights must prevail at some point - my choice would be 24 or thereabouts for males

Why don't we just make it your age, since you're the old wise one?

When people get going on what "age" is the mature mark, some of us go off the deep end. You're putting a stamp on a number, as if THAT will really fix anything. There are people of all types at all ages.

 

[easyg]

Allow me to reiterate, just because you, or the 18 year olds you knew, were immature and acted like an idiot at 18, doesnt mean that i do the same.

It's not acting....no one is really mature at age 18.
You think that you're mature but one day you will look back and see that you still had a lot growing up to do.
You can't see this to be true right now because you have a very limited frame of reference....because you're still very young.

Have you ever had your heart broken and felt like the it was the end of the world and that you didn't want to live anymore?
A: Mom left on my birthday when i was 4, i got through that. The only thing that would feel like the end of the world where i couldnt get over it, would be.. well, the end of the world.

Spoken like a young man who has never been in love and had that love lost.
One day you might understand what I'm referring to.
As the famous quote goes "Better to have loved and lost...."

Have you ever decided to do something that might just get you killed, just for the hell of it?
A: No. You're not immature if you did, you're an idiot.

Spoken like a young man who has not did much nor seen much in this world.
And one that sounds, to be frank, like a real party pooper too.

Have you ever lost a physical fight?
A: See answer 1
Have you ever won a physical fight only to later realize that you really didn't win?
A: See answer 1

So you've 18 years old and you have never been in a single fight in your life???
Now I definitely wouldn't sell you a handgun.

Have you ever did something really crazy or really stupid just to impress a girl?
A: If she likes you for acting like an idiot, common sense tells me that, she too; is an idiot.

Spoken like a young man who doesn't know much about the ladies.
Yes, despite some claims to the counter, women do like guys who do crazy and daring acts.
Wild boys get the girls....it's a fact!

Have you ever committed a crime that you knew could land you in prison for quite a few years?
A: Never.

Give it some time....

Have you ever did something that your parents taught you not to do?
A: Parents never told me NOT to do something, just face the consequences if i did.

Well, that's an interesting parenting method....
It probably explains a lot of your previous answers.


The thing is this....
You think that you're mature and worldly wise, but you're not.
Being mature is NOT about never getting in to trouble, or never making foolish decisions, or never taking a walk on the wild side.
Sure, you don't want to go totally insane and ruin your life....I'm saying you should become a gang-banger or a crack-head....but for one to become mature one must LIVE LIFE.
And that means taking chances, risking injury or trouble, making mistakes, etc....
Show me a man who has never gotten in trouble, or had his heart broken, or placed his life at risk (even just a little bit) and I'll show you a man who has never really lived.

It's not easy to put in to words, but I hope you understand what I'm saying.
Paying you own bills and living on your own is admirable and commendable....but you're still a young man with raging hormones and high levels of testosterone (unless you're a girl or a neutered guy).
And some folks just aren't comfortable selling a handgun to such a person.

Even in the military the young guys are kept under rather strict discipline when it comes to firearms.
Back in the US, during peacetime, we couldn't even keep firearms in the barracks...they had to be secured in the Arms Room.
Even though we were all trained soldiers, the command was afraid to give us unfettered access to firearms and ammo.
Why you ask?
Because they know full well what could happen if you give 50 teenage guys unfettered access to firearms and ammo!

And even without the firearms there were still plenty of fights and injures in the military.
It's all those young alpha males with high testosterone and raging hormones, and often fueled by alcohol and caffeine.
It's dangerous.

 

[docnyt]

OP, I don't know you but you could be the most mature 18 year old in the world, be the next Buddha and all that, but that's the sad truth of it - I don't know you. I believe that is the underlying problem with the (misplaced) mistrust shown by potential private gun sellers.

 

[dnlgao]

It's not acting....no one is really mature at age 18.
You think that you're mature but one day you will look back and see that you still had a lot growing up to do.
You can't see this to be true right now because you have a very limited frame of reference....because you're still very young.


Spoken like a young man who has never been in love and had that love lost.
One day you might understand what I'm referring to.
As the famous quote goes "Better to have loved and lost...."


Spoken like a young man who has not did much nor seen much in this world.
And one that sounds, to be frank, like a real party pooper too.



So you've 18 years old and you have never been in a single fight in your life???
Now I definitely wouldn't sell you a handgun.


Spoken like a young man who doesn't know much about the ladies.
Yes, despite some claims to the counter, women do like guys who do crazy and daring acts.
Wild boys get the girls....it's a fact!


Give it some time....


Well, that's an interesting parenting method....
It probably explains a lot of your previous answers.


The thing is this....
You think that you're mature and worldly wise, but you're not.
Being mature is NOT about never getting in to trouble, or never making foolish decisions, or never taking a walk on the wild side.
Sure, you don't want to go totally insane and ruin your life....I'm saying you should become a gang-banger or a crack-head....but for one to become mature one must LIVE LIFE.
And that means taking chances, risking injury or trouble, making mistakes, etc....
Show me a man who has never gotten in trouble, or had his heart broken, or placed his life at risk (even just a little bit) and I'll show you a man who has never really lived.

It's not easy to put in to words, but I hope you understand what I'm saying.
Paying you own bills and living on your own is admirable and commendable....but you're still a young man with raging hormones and high levels of testosterone (unless you're a girl or a neutered guy).
And some folks just aren't comfortable selling a handgun to such a person.

Even in the military the young guys are kept under rather strict discipline when it comes to firearms.
Back in the US, during peacetime, we couldn't even keep firearms in the barracks...they had to be secured in the Arms Room.
Even though we were all trained soldiers, the command was afraid to give us unfettered access to firearms and ammo.
Why you ask?
Because they know full well what could happen if you give 50 teenage guys unfettered access to firearms and ammo!

And even without the firearms there were still plenty of fights and injures in the military.
It's all those young alpha males with high testosterone and raging hormones, and often fueled by alcohol and caffeine.
It's dangerous.

So because ive handled situations maturely instead of being immature like you, im all of a sudden in the wrong? Are you serious? haha. Thats funny. Dont think because youre older that you hold superiority, the fact that you are seemingly trying to force this superiority in your responses to me, shows how exactly "mature" you are. You must be one of those, "im old, so im smarter than you" type people. Which is a shame, and really makes you look foolish.

"Spoken like a young man who has never had love or love lost"
A: I guess losing my mom means nothing, or holding my grandfathers hand as he passed right in front of me.
"Spoken like a party pooper"
A: Wait, let me get this straight. So because i havent done anything that i could have risked my life doing, im now a party popper and its a negative thing. Excuse me for not being an idiot.
"Not seen much in this world"
A: Im willing to bet you would not make this statement if you really knew me.
"Spoken like a youngman who doesnt know much about the ladies"
A: Now this is funny, considering ive been with my girlfriend now for almost 2 years. Not that long of a time, i understand, but trust me, im definitely not uneducated when it comes to women. I got my girlfriends from treating them right, having a straight head on my shoulders, and having a future ahead of me. Judging from your response, you were one of those dudes in high school who would look like an absolute fool, just to get some tail. What a joke. The same kind of dudes we laughed at in high school while me and my brother stayed paid, educated and motivated.

"Never a single fight in your life"

No, I have. Sparring in a controlled environment. 12 years of Wushu, the first thing you learn is discipline. Something you apparently lack.

Dont talk about my parents.

Someone who has never really lived? The way i was raised and the way i live, have allowed me to see the Eiffel tower, ski the swiss alps, see the Sistine chapel, climb the great wall, and enjoy things most people only dream of. Im sorry i didnt get a DUI when i was 16, go to jail for jipping class, get expelled for fighting in class. I sure do i wish have "lived" a little more.

I would continue and give responses to you, but this is going to be my last one. The things you feel like are necessary to become a mature adult are completely flawed, most likely because of the things that you had to overcome yourself. Yet, in your thinking and bias judgment as well as generalization towards 18 year olds, it shows that you really haven't matured or gotten over those immature things you use to do. Maybe you're the one who needs to mature, and maybe one day YOU will understand.

Dont try and categorize me with the actions that YOU did, or feel like people did just because YOU, one person, partook in them.

Daniel


EDIT: WAIT! So i have to get in a fight to own a handgun? DANG IT! I wish someone would have told me that earlier. Thank you for informing me, now all my problems are solved.

 

[Smokin357]

Whew... alot of biased individuals are truly just unable to see past their own diffficulties in dealing with responsibility, but let's all try.

Let's see. At eighteen we expect our citizens to be responsible enough to vote, to serve in the armed forces, to die for the freedoms we enjoy, and to enter into marriage. We even expect those same citizens to be responsible for their actions and send them to prison if they do not behave responsibly.

On the flip side, we do not consider those same citizens capable of making many other everyday decisions, such responsible use of alchoholic beverages. We impair the rights and freedoms of those we ask to protect ours by not allowing the 2nd amendment to apply to all citizens. And yes, when we ask those citizens to vote and to join in the freedom process, they are adult citizens.

If we don't believe eighteen year old citizens are responsible enough to enjoy the rights of being citizens, then maybe each of us should try a little harder to pass along the wisdom and instill the constitution that will make our younger citizens better pillars of democracy than we are.