Reacting to home intruder

[NavyLCDR]

You ARE kidding, right?

 

[duns]

You ARE kidding, right?

No, I'm not kidding. Of course, my numbers are uncertain, which is why I suggest using your own numbers to see what you come up with.

My argument, put qualitatively rather than quantitatively, would be as follows:

Engaging the intruder(s) makes sense only if (1) your possessions are more valuable than your life or (2) you feel your risk is not much increased by engaging the intruder(s).

 

[NavyLCDR]

Engaging the intruder(s) makes sense only if (1) your possessions are more valuable than your life or (2) you feel your risk is not much increased by engaging the intruder(s).

If I am armed with a gun, I am going with option #2 every time. Typically the person with the most bullets in their body has the highest chance of dying, and I am going to make sure that happens to be the intruder.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Typically the person with the most bullets in their body has the highest chance of dying, and I am going to make sure that happens to be the intruder.

Or you could get blindsided by the intruder and cold cocked with 18 inches of lead pipe. Your gun has been no use to you. No one has been shot. But you have, best case, a serious concussion.

 

[GEM]

In a FOF exercise run by KRtraining, we were in a house that we knew pretty well. We started in the bedroom and heard a break-in. Your goal was to decide to do the right thing. You had a shotgun (not real rounds).

Those that left the bedroom to engage the two BGs 'died' or at best taken to the ground.

The more experienced folks stayed hunkered in the bedroom and made it out ok.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Isnt that a Rob Pincus video?

Doing a "meet and greet" probably would not be my A list response to a B &E-home invader.

Kids? Train them to get under a bed or head to a safe area if they can.
Me? Phone in one hand... gun in the other. Everyone else in a pre determined safe spot.

If you insist on coming into my space... you won't like what happens next. Clearing a building is tough enough with training... not an OJT task

 

[Frank Ettin]

If I am armed with a gun, I am going with option #2 every time. Typically the person with the most bullets in their body has the highest chance of dying, and I am going to make sure that happens to be the intruder.

Or you could get blindsided by the intruder and cold cocked with 18 inches of lead pipe. Your gun has been no use to you. No one has been shot. But you have, best case, a serious concussion.

Oops. My apologies. I mixed up Option 1 and Option 2.

 

[beeenbag]

So I'm assuming that after hearing an attempted B&E, if I am standing close to my bedroom door listening to try and place the person inside the house, when I have a good idea where they are and that they are not close to the door, opening the door would be considered clearing the house? Remember in an earlier post I stated I could see my whole house pretty much from my bedroom door. If this is considered clearing my house then I guess im goin against the grain. Besides that what would be the difference if I slept with the door open, absolutely nothing.

When you guys say "clearing a house" the first thing that comes to my mind is like a swat team swinging in through the windows. I don't think of me standin in my underwear peepin around the bedroom door frame.

When would you ACUALLY call the police? When you first heard something, or after you listen for a while, lay eyes on them, what decides WHEN to call?

It seems you would have to be certain something was wrong and to be 100% sure you would have to do some type of "recon" if you will.

 

[stchman]

Remember many states tell you that you may not use deadly force to defend your property.

I live here in Missouri and you are only allowed to use deadly force if your feel your life is threatened.

Of course anyone can say that they feared for their lives if someone broke into their house.

 

[Kleanbore]

So I'm assuming that after hearing an attempted B&E, if I am standing close to my bedroom door listening to try and place the person inside the house, when I have a good idea where they are and that they are not close to the door, opening the door would be considered clearing the house?....Remember in an earlier post I stated I could see my whole house pretty much from my bedroom door.

Not quite sure what you mean but I'll try to help.

If you have concluded that it is likely that someone has improperly entered the house, you do not want to be standing close to the door, you do not want to give away your position by opening the door. You have nothing to gain by looking out from the door, and you have everything to lose. You want the threat to come to you.

Didn't the DVD cover the following?: Close the door to your safe room and lock it if possible. Get behind some kind of concealment, or if possible cover, from which you can see the door and, with the door open, the avenue of an invader's approach, and have your gun or guns at the ready. I would shout something about staying away. Should the door open, presenting you with a target, FIRE. Front sight on target, and FIRE.

When would you ACUALLY call the police? When you first heard something, or after you listen for a while, lay eyes on them, what decides WHEN to call?

If I lay eyes on them the battle is likely on. INSTANTLY, unless it is clear that what I have is a couple of small folk playing games. We have a pretty good castle doctrine here, but I don't want to be the one to test the envelope, and I don't want to shoot anyone unless I have to.

It seems you would have to be certain something was wrong and to be 100% sure you would have to do some type of "recon" if you will.

Certain? NO! Recon? Not until you are sure it was a false alarm. You do not want to expose yourself to gunfire or someone grabbing or stabbing you and disarming you from the area that 's not within that "pretty much" that you can see.

Listen. Listen some more. If the sound was not one of a door breaking or opening, and if you don't hear anything else for a while, relax--you may want to to some "recon" (I don't see the need). If the noise was clearly very threatening, or if it recurs or continues and does not sound like something you can identify--icemaker making ice, screen door banging in the wind, dishwasher drain overflowing, cat chasing a rodent, raccoon in the trash can--(1) get the family to safety, (2) arm yourself, (3) call 911. At any time during that sequence prepare to defend yourself; just make sure you know your target before firing.

Should the perp give up, don't try a citizens arrest. While you are holding him you could shoot inadvertently, be shot by an accomplice, or be shot by an arriving policeman. Best if he leaves, actually, hopefully leaving images in your spouse's cell phone.

Should the police arrive while you are holding your gun --that's a bad thing--do exactly as they say with no sudden movements. They'll see a man with a gun who is a potential threat, not a "good guy", and things will unfold very quickly.

By all means, take the NRA course on personal defense within the home.

On last thing--do not base all of your contingency plans on the idea that an invasion will necessarily occur when you are in the bedroom. Consider all of the possibilities and plan for them.

 

[beeenbag]

Didn't the DVD cover the following?: Close the door to your safe room and lock it if possible.

No... he never really emphasized on anything to do with a door. It was more of him hunkering in the corner of a walk in closet with no clothes in it and yelling. The camera was straight in at him, you couldn't even see a door. That is all it showed on that part. The rest was the whole "clearing" thing I guess, of course it was because of lovedones mind you.
To be honest the video was kinda cheesy and low budget (reminded me of the videos we had to watch in DUI classes) which is why this thread started. I had very little faith in it. It did have a cool part of how to target someone through a sheetrock wall and make a hit, that was interesting.

 

[Bullnettles]

This thread made me wonder what I would do in my current house. I had thought of it before, decided on the stay put with my gun towards the "funnel of death" - Whoever said it, thank you! My roommate is in the room next to mine, then our landlord is at the other end of the house, but not too gun-enthused, although he does own a few. We just ran through where we would be if sleeping, access to our firearms, and TRIED to safely clear the house (we both have a good position in our rooms from each direction they could come from). What I found is that even if we could safely come out and acquire a target, the aggressor of the two of us would be defenseless from the rear in any situation where we moved because the other could not hold their position because the other would be in the way. I did learn I can smoothly negotiate a corner and acquire a target without sticking my barrel around the corner first, but I would NOT go out since we would have all paths covered. We have no kids, which all bets are off in that situation. YMMV, but honestly, stuff isn't worth the breaths you haven't taken yet. Those are priceless.

 

[hso]

It did have a cool part of how to target someone through a sheetrock wall and make a hit, that was interesting.

Not generally a good idea. While it may look cool in the movies there are a huge number of safety problems with taking a shot at a target that you can't see and that you can't see what's behind the target. Lacking cartoon x-ray vision this isn't a good idea.

 

[beeenbag]

hso,

The video showed this using a partial dividing wall as the example. He done his "slicing the pie" looking around the end of the wall, when he made eye contact with the target, he stepped back behind the wall shooting through the sheetrock while stepping to the side the whole time. I think this was just to be able to have some cover while engaging. Then again like I said, it is a very cheap and cheesy training video.

 

[TomTerrific]

Are there any data on the likelihood of a home invader being armed? The reason I ask is several years ago our town home complex had a rash of petty thefts and we had the shift supervisor of the local police department come out and talk with us. Most of the thefts involved taking things from unlocked autos, not home invasion. He said essentially all the BGs who go in a house are not armed as the charge then is armed robbery.

It is essential to have a plan but as they say in the Army, the best made battle plans go awry about the time the first shots are fired.

Tom

 

[cisco11]

I don't think my dogs understand all these scenarios. I always have my dogs in the house, usually in the bedroom. I would have to protect the intruder.
When I shuck the Model 12 the dogs go nuts. They know something is gonna be shot. However , one never knows what he/she is gonna do until time comes.
Had one intruder years ago. Hurt his mouth when I shoved Model 53 .22 Rem/ Jet. in it. End of story.
Cisco

 

[Mp7]

Wow. This is an amazingly long thread, considering
that Kleanbore quotet all the necessary wisdoms on page 1.

Overcoming fury and irrational territorial behaviour
will lead to the better outcome in most cases i believe.

The rest is luck and stories about dead heroes.

 

[hso]

There's a reason that the commander that sets an ambush suffers fewer losses than engaging on the open field against unknown forces.

In the FOF course I used to help teach the folks that simply waited patiently were successful nearly every time. Even when me or the other instructors were the invaders (and it was "our" house that we built and operated and taught in every week). Our experience was just like GEM's.

Everyone's house is different and everyone's family is different, but one fact remains, the folks that put their loved ones in a defensible position and then hold the choke point are the folks that are closest to winning 100% of the time. Those that abandon their families to stalk the darkness have just thrown away their greatest advantage.

 

[KodiakBeer]

There's a reason that the commander that sets an ambush suffers fewer losses than engaging on the open field against unknown forces.

What ambush? He knows you're in the bedroom, so he'll stay out. He's too busy carting off your Great Gran-dads military saber so he can sell it for $25 and buy some meth.

 

[Robert]

Most all home invasions are committed by someone that knows the home owner/ renter. In the cases they are generally looking for drugs or money or both. The chances of a total stranger kicking in your door at 2am are slim to none. Even the dumbest criminal knows better than to enter a home with someone there. Nothing, save my family, in my house is worth my life. I have insurance for a reason. Clearing a house with an active shooter inside is a very dangerous undertaking. But you may do as you wish.

 

[GEM]

So when he initially arrives, he knows you are in the bedroom. He makes noise so you charge out and then he shoots you. HSO is saying that you'd better set the ambush as compared to it being set by him to shoot you.

Besides, when you are the bedroom, you call the law and yell loudly that you did that and they said they will be here in a few minutes. You also yell that your armed.

And who gives a crap about Gramp's saber as compared to daying, This is exactly the fools rush in to die over a perceived primate territorial insult. Would you run out to save Great-great-Grandma's underpants from the time she slept with George Washington?

Get some airsoft and reasonable opponents - have them take up positions in your house and then try to clear them. Otherwise, posturing is worthless.

 

[KodiakBeer]

So when he initial arrives, he knows you are in the bedroom. He makes noise so you charge out and then he shoots you.

Uh yeah, I'm sure that's his plan.

Get some airsoft and reasonable opponents - have them take up positions in your house and then try to clear them. Otherwise, posturing is worthless.

You can sling all the insults you please, but, having actually done the real thing many, many times I don't think I need to "posture".

 

[GEM]

Not to insult but the silly bit about the saber is just emotional and not relevant. Even if they were carting off the Mona Lisa, is that worth your life. If you feel you could and have defeated many armed opponents by yourself in tight quarters, then go right ahead.

 

[Art Eatman]

You know what? This poor old thread has broken ribs from too much chest-thumping. There's been an excess of snark and sarcasm, as well...

Enough.