Reality vs Fantasy: the case for .22 Carry

[slicer22]

I bought a Taurus PT-22 poly. It fits easily right in my front pocket and fires high velocity hollowpoints very nicely.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=695&category=Pistol&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

I judge it "the Smart Man's Concealed Carry". Here's my argument:

1. First, unless you're in a high-crime area the likelihood is very low that you'll ever even be in a gun battle, or get assaulted, or face a PCP-crazed madman. Mostly that's Hollywood stuff and hype to sell high cost guns and ammo. Also:

2. In the very unlikely event you do actually need it, chances are
A. you won't be able to get to it before Giant Mongo charges you, or
B. if you're being charged, you will panic under the stress despite your range training and drop the gun, or shoot yourself rather than your assailant.

So what is the purpose of carrying then? Deterrence. All you really need is a credible threat. As opposed to fantasy use, actual, real world use of a concealed handgun implies some time to assess the situation, and possibly brandish, and warn off the assailant. In that case, most any handgun will serve---and the PT-22, or other subcompact, is easily concealed right in the pocket. But, if someone still elects to assail if warned, I can pop a few CCi Velocitors right through them. And at very low cost. I can fire hundreds of rounds cheaply and get comfortable with the weapon. And once perforated with a few .22 holes, if Mongo continues charging I'll stick the barrel up his teeth.

So, why spend big money on expensive guns and rounds, when a nice little ninja-warrior's space-age .22 gun will do just fine.

The only thing missing from the PT-22 is a laser. I considered the fine Bersa Thunder .22, but it's a bit large for a pocket. The key is easy access. Credible deterrent.

 

[fallout mike]

Sorry buddy but a "smart man" doesn't carry a .22. You should do a little research on ballistics.

 

[glockky]

I think you are looking at it completely wrong. But the reason i carry is to stop a threat not bruise them. The 22 has killed people but i wouldnt want to rely on it stopping someone.

What if the (MADMAN) has a gun, wouldnt u want to stop him instead of just a wounding shot that gives him the opportunity to fire back.

With the advancements in ammunition and concealable firearms, the 380 is hard to beat if u want something that is easy to conceal, and i personally dont own one but i would consider it the minimum for a CCW. I carry a 45 every day and feel very confident in it.

 

[M2 Carbine]

2. In the very unlikely event you do actually need it, chances are
A. you won't be able to get to it before Giant Mongo charges you, or
B. if you're being charged, you will panic under the stress despite your range training and drop the gun, or shoot yourself rather than your assailant.

Forget the 22 or any other gun, if you think you are just going to "panic".
Since you are in a state of panic just scream like a girl and run as fast as you can. Chances are the bad guys won't be able to catch you since they will be laughing too hard.

 

[Rail Driver]

I bought a Taurus PT-22 poly.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=695&category=Pistol&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

I judge it "the Smart Man's Concealed Carry". I judge it the "Ill informed and untrained man's concealed carry". You'll find my argument in red text.Here's my argument:

1. First, unless you're in a high-crime area the likelihood is very low that you'll ever even be in a gun battle, or get assaulted, or face a PCP-crazed madman. This is more or less true. Chances are low that you'll need your gun. Mostly that's Hollywood stuff and hype to sell high cost guns and ammo. Also: If that's how you see it, that's how you see it. I see it as a credible danger to my family or my own life.

2. In the very unlikely event you do actually need it, chances are
A. you won't be able to get to it before Giant Mongo charges you, or Possible. This is why I train hand to hand self defense as well.
B. if you're being charged, you will panic under the stress despite your range training and drop the gun, or shoot yourself rather than your assailant.Without any training of any kind this may be the case. Instead of carrying a substandard (for self defense) caliber, get some training so you DON'T freeze up or shoot yourself like an idiot that's never handled a firearm before.

So what is the purpose of carrying then? Deterrence. All you really need is a credible threat. So just showing a handgun will always be enough every time I feel my life is in danger? Wow, thanks for letting me know that, now I can go return all my expensive .45ACP self defense ammo. Actual use, as opposed to fantasy use, of a concealed handgun implies some time to assess the situation, and possibly brandish, and warn off the assailant. This is not necessarily true. Each situation is different, and things don't always happen like you think they might. I carry the largest caliber I can handle effectively in case I DO have to shoot.In that case, most any handgun will serve---and the PT-22, or other subcompact, is easily concealed right in the pocket. But, if someone elects to assail given these conditions, I can pop a few CCi Velocitors right through them.You mean right through their clothes and into them, causing very small .22" holes that don't bleed much and didn't do enough physical damage to the assailant to stop them, resulting in your possible beating, death, or being shot with your own gun when the PCP addled assailant takes it from you? And at very low cost. If cost is your only consideration here, them perhaps you should consider reloading.I can fire hundreds of rounds cheaply and get comfortable with the weapon.Shot placement is important with any caliber, however larger calibers do more damage and increase the "forgiveness" for bad shots. If you're worried about shooting yourself in a SD situation, you should get training. You want as great a margin of error as possible. A .22 allows for VERY little error in shot placement. A CCI velocitor will not penetrate an average man's sternum (I know this from personal experience). And once perforated with a few .22 holes, if Mongo continues charging I'll stick the barrel up his teeth. If he's still coming after you've pumped a few .22 rounds into him, you've lost the fight.

So, why spend big money on expensive guns and rounds, when a nice little ninja-warrior's space-age .22 gun will do just fine. Because a nice little .22 simply won't do just fine.

The only thing missing from the PT-22 is a laser. I considered the fine Bersa Thunder .22, but it's a bit large for a pocket. The key is easy access. Credible deterrent.

The red text in the quote is mine. Simply my own opinion based on my TRAINING and my personal experience and research.

Your mileage may vary.

*Edit to add: I carry a 1911 in .45ACP every day. Sometimes I carry two of them (I live in a rough part of town and can't afford to move as some would suggest).

Forget the 22 or any other gun, if you think you are just going to "panic".
Since you are in a state of panic just scream like a girl and run as fast as you can. Chances are the bad guys won't be able to catch you since they will be laughing too hard.

Very much LOL. You owe me a keyboard!

 

[fallout mike]

Glockky, you must not have read the op. After he has bruised him he will "stick the barrel up his teeth."

 

[Unistat]

 

[Mainsail]

I'm no expert, but I've never heard of a regular citizen in a gunfight where caliber mattered one bit. I've never heard of a mugger, burglar, or rapist that took a slug from a potential victim and said, "Meh, that's just a .22, I'll keep coming." Is it ideal? No. But 99% of the time the bad guy(s) are off in a sprint like it's a race for their lives after the first shot.

Carry whatever you shoot best.

 

[bigfatdave]

obvious troll is obvious

don't feed the trolls

 

[JRH6856]

 

[CDW4ME]

The .22 can be lethal, but its incapacitation potential for quickly stopping a violent attack...not so much.

Regardless of whatever rationalizations you may dream up, you can get better incapication potential in nearly the same size package with a 380 and that's considered marginal.

Fantasy: a .22 will quickly stop a violent attack.
Reality: it's your life you are betting.

 

[2ndAmFan]

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I'm in a situation where after shooting an assailant I'm using a handgun as a bludgeon I have probably already lost the fight, and may lose my life as well. I'll stick with 9x19mm and up for defensive handguns.

 

[Vonderek]

Slicer22, if you are for real, you are carrying a gun as a talisman and in a bad situation it will perform as one. It's a placebo effect which is fine until you actually need it. I encourage you to re-evaluate.

 

[tpaw]

What ever rocks your socks, but I prefer bigger..........

 

[EddieNFL]

1. First, unless you're in a high-crime area the likelihood is very low that you'll ever even be in a gun battle, or get assaulted, or face a PCP-crazed madman. Mostly that's Hollywood stuff and hype to sell high cost guns and ammo.

Play the odds and leave the gun home.

Someone's been taking advice from Dear Abby.

 

[M-Cameron]

heres my take on the matter.....

i honestly would not feel under gunned with a .22....

granted its not a "man stopper".....but i have a hard time believing that anyone is going to continue an attack with a hand full of .22s in their chest.....

with that said....at self defense ranges.......i can shoot my .357 just as well as any .22.........so why not carry the larger caliber? its sure not going to hurt anything.

 

[Skribs]

Most of the post is basically saying "if I don't have to actually shoot it in self defense, it doesn't matter what caliber I choose." What happens when you do?

.22 requires a hot load with FMJ ammo to meet acceptable levels of penetration, and it can be easily deflected. If you're not planning on shooting anyway (due to likelihood of being accosted, and simply using the weapon as a deterrence) then the .22 provides no advantage over the 9 or the .40. But if you really want to stop the threat, I'm convinced that for a handgun you either need a 5.7, a 9mm-caliber round in FMJ or a premium hollowpoint (.357 magnum or sig can use "bulk" JHP), or something .40 or above with JHP ammo.

 

[slicer22]

Thanks to all for the replies, even the rude ones---it must be nice to know everything and be so superior. Some of us don't know everything yet so we get on forums to learn things. I still think the .22 is a pretty fair real-world deterrent vs a (relatively) rational assailant, particularly if you can draw first; although some of the points here are very good. I like the pocket pistol concept so I will look into the subcompact .380's.

 

[rcmodel]

fires high velocity hollowpoints very nicely

You would do better with high velocity solids.

Your HP my expand, but the penetration will be greatly reduced.

rc

 

[Skribs]

It is nice to know everything, Slicer. Bow before my intellect! Just kidding...

Like I said - when you're at the deterrent stage, it doesn't matter. An airsoft pistol with black paint over the orange tip would be a good deterrent.

In the pocket pistol range, I'll recommend the Ruger LCP. I don't think you can beat it for the price.

 

[SharkHat]

Do you want your medical or homeowner's insurance to payout the bare minimum in the event that you need either one?

 

[bk42261]

Maybe if you blast them with pepper spray first, so they can't see or breathe, the .22 give you a better chance, but I'll stick with my .357 thanks.

 

[NOLAEMT]

If this is really how you feel, you should invest in some quality training. Here are a couple suggestions. I guarantee that after learning some more, and doing some hands on training, your ideas about carrying a gun for self defense will change.

http://www.gunsite.com/
http://www.thunderranchinc.com/
http://www.rogersshootingschool.com/

There are many others. But if you carry a gun, you should be prepared to use it, and from your explanation, it doesn't seem like that is the case. Someone who would threaten your life is almost by definition not a rational person.

The "deterrent factor" of having a gun is almost non existant in some cases. Gang members and other criminals have been around guns their whole lives, showing them that you are armed often times means nothing to them, neither does pointing a gun at them. It seems unlikely, but I have seen it first hand.

 

[buckeye8]

Why not carry a pellet gun? According to your logic, it would be a step "up" from a .22LR. Heck, why not just pretend you have a pistol in your jacket pocket and tell your assailant to "stick 'em up"? It would save you a whole lot of money and trouble.

If you're here to learn, as you say, you've come to a good place... but you've got a lot of reading to do.

 

[hardluk1]

And on his tomb stone reads ( Here lays a really smart man. He defended his life with a .22 )