A new respect for the .22 lately.

[Milkmaster]

This thread is NOT intended to start a darn argument about wether the 22, is good enough for personal defense. My intention is to share my recent observations as I am learning how to handle and shoot the little pocket pistols and how a well placed smaller caliber might just be as effective as an ill placed larger caliber. Practice is what makes any of us effective for self defense no matter what caliber is used. All that being said...I have a new respect for the .22 lately.

I am going to jump in here a little to relay a recent lesson I learned that may be of benefit here. I am 50 and have shot most anything at one time or another except something with only a 2" barrel like a snubby. A few weeks back I bought a little .380 semi auto pocket pistol that has a 2.5" barrel. I practiced shooting about 3 boxes through it the first day. I quickly found out just how close a threat needs to be before you can hit them reliably with every shot and that shot be placed in the right spot to bring the threat down. The .380 caliber in the tiny pistol made the recoil a bit harsh and taking successive rapid shots less than accurate. I still like the little pistol, but what happened was that I now have greater respect for my .22 pistol. I realized that 10 shots easily and correctly placed with the lessor recoil .22 pistol just might be as effective as 6 with the .380 if I don't get them placed very well. I still plan to carry the .380 for now and get better with practice to find my sweet spot with it. Never the less, the thought of carrying the .22 sure crossed my mind as an option!.

 

[bluetopper]

For those of us that grew up roaming the woods carrying and plinking with their favorite .22, the 22LR cartridge has always had our respect. The 380 and many other calibers do not compare in accuracy and penetration to a .22.

And just pure fun, there are not many in its class.

 

[jbkebert]

If I am concerned about printing says while wearing shorts. I will leave my p226 at home and carry my walther p-22. I haven't had all of the troubles I keep reading about on this forum. I figure 10 quick shots with cci stingers would more than do the job if ever needed.

 

[mljdeckard]

I do not, nor do I plan on carrying a .22 as a defensive gun. However, I do have a Ciener conversion for my 1911, three 15-rd magazines, and 1 ten round magazine. I can deliver 55 Stingers center-of mass VERY quickly at close range if I want to.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Might want to rethink that. Stingers are intended for varmints, while the FBI reccomends that any ammunition used for self-defense be able to go through at least one foot of ballistics gelatin. Also, I've heard of 2 cases where someone was shot with a .22 rifle, and made it to the hospital. Could have turned out far worse if they had been armed and shooting back

 

[czhen]

I will jump in this thread along with the above, but remarking that is only fine if there is no reaction of your opponent during 7 seg. Which is a huge windows to fire back if we are talkinga bout a gunfight.

Czhen
FL

 

[AKElroy]

the FBI reccomends that any ammunition used for self-defense be able to go through at least one foot of ballistics gelatin.

True, but a bad guy getting a face & chest full of 12 g 3" #4 or #6 shot from 15-20 feet won't notice the lack of penetration.

 

[mljdeckard]

Again, I do not, nor do I intend to use a .22 for a defensive gun at all.

 

[orionengnr]

Good plan.
A .22LR is a weapon of last resort, slightly above a knife or a slingshot.

 

[jbkebert]

I must just be a dumb farm boy. I have seen more things killed with a .22 than any other gun. No it does not have the knock down of a .45 but its a darn far cry from a slingshot.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

True, but a bad guy getting a face & chest full of 12 g 3" #4 or #6 shot from 15-20 feet won't notice the lack of penetration.

Some bad guys being shot by FBI agents noticed it, and not with birdshot either, with 9mm and maybe .38s. They hit an arm, but not anything vital. Had the round been a bit higher-powered, it would have hit a lung and saved the agents' lives. Given that at armed attacker would probably have their arms blocking in front of their COM, it makes sense to use the FBI guideline, unless you live in a thin-walled apartment or something

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

A .22 handgun is what Jeff Cooper called an "eye-socket gun." A face full of .22 bullets will ruin someone's, anyone's, day. That said, my minimum caliber choice is .38 Special +P, with my .357 Magnum S&W Model 13 as my first primary gun. I do, however also carry a Kel-Tec P32 in .32 ACP as a BUG or when I can't carry a gun.

ECS

 

[owlhoot]

Last year a fellow's home was invaded around here. The homeowner shot the miscreant in the head with his .22 pistol. The invader put up his hands and said don't shoot me no more. I surrender. The bullet hit the skull, ran a quarter way round the BG's head under the skin and exited.
PD took the guy to the hospital and then to jail. So all turned out well for everybody with the BG suffering little more than a headache. But had the intruder been armed, it might have been a different story.

That said, I've been acquainted with three men who were each killed, not instantly, but killed, by single bullets from a .25, a poor stopper in any body's book.

So I guess it boils down to just how lucky do you feel.

 

[Milkmaster]

This thread is NOT intended to start a darn argument about wether the 22, is good enough for personal defense. My intention is to share my recent observations as I am learning how to handle and shoot the little pocket pistols and how a well placed smaller caliber might just be as effective as an ill placed larger caliber. Practice is what makes any of us effective for self defense no matter what caliber is used. All that being said...I have a new respect for the .22 lately.

I guess it is not realistic not to expect thread drift!

 

[Atltech]

I also own both a .22LR & .380 ACP and share your findings.I can place 10 rounds within the target center with my Buckmark .22LR with no effort.
My .380ACP is just as accurate but definitely requires a firmer grip to
compensate for recoil.
I keep HP loads in the .22LR and would have no problem trusting my life to it.
You are correct about practice and training.I use "center mass" training from a kneeling position.SD training is about stopping a threat..not being Rambo.Good post..thanks.

 

[Wolfebyte]

In 1983 we arrested a male subject for assault. He was shot one time by the home owner from a distance of about 20 feet in the chest by a .22 lr, fired from a Marlin Glenfield model 60.
Round entered the victim's chest, striking the sternum, deflecting under the muscle mass around the left side of his chest, exiting a little behind the left arm at the back wall of the chest.
He did stop his attack once he was shot.

Very little medical attention was needed, the doc basically sterilized the entrance and exit wounds, lightly bandaged for drainage and sent him on his way with us to the jail.

He lived, but could not put his left arm down for a couple of weeks..

 

[Water-Man]

Not too long ago a girl was shot in the back by another girl with a .22 handgun. She died within a short period of time. More respect is due the .22.

 

[pps]

I'll always respect it as being deadly. I won't, however, rely on it as a reliable stopper when I've seen rabbits hit squarely in the chest run several yards before death.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

the Aguila 'super max' LR round has got a menacing 'pow' to it. don't want to get hit with that one.
I get a kick out the 'armed citizen' page when some granny woman opens up on the 'boys in the hood' trying to steal her SS check with a .22LR revolver. sometimes one gets it in the heart or head and drops on the porch most make it to hospital w/multiple gunshot wounds.

 

[searcher451]

One of the beautiful things about the once-lowly .22 these days is that you can still find ammo to shoot through it, and the ammo you find is relatively inexpensive. That in and of itself guarantees a long life for any good .22 on the market, handgun or rifle. On my last dozen trips to the range, I've taken nothing but .22s along as companions and have a good time every time out.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

The 380 Auto is a gun that requires a firm grip and practice.
Because the 380 is generally designed for small size and easy concealment the grip is often very short. This is why you see the curved magazine extensions to provide a little more finger contact. Combine the poor grip with sharp (not heavy) recoil and you have a potential accuracy problem. There is also a problem getting a small-gripped 380 back on target cleanly because the little thing tends to twist in your hand if your grip is not good.

In my experience the Sig 230/232 is the optimum size for good handling versus concealment in a 380. I can shoot this pistol as well as a 22LR pistol.

I would not like to argue whether the extra couple of rounds available in a 22 offsets the larger bullet in a 380. This is probably a pointless exercise.

Would I regularly carry a 22 for SD? Unlikely. If I needed a small pistol I would go with the 380 since there is no significant size difference between the two.

On the other hand there is a certain value in using whatever firearm you have confidence in regardless of caliber.

 

[xstuntman]

I love the lowly 22lr. I'm not bashing anyones choice of weapon BUT I've had several of my co-workers shooting with me at the range. As a couple of examples one guy with a 9mm Glock, the other with a .45 Glock and both were small frame guns. Not sure of the models but they were very small for carry. Neither one could hit the target more than 50 percent of the time at 10yards. Needless to say I was very surprised since both are what you'd term "gun guys". With my 4.5" H&R .22 at 20 yards all shots are within the eight ring. Again, I'm not bashing just presenting what I've seen. In the end hits count - misses don't. Mike

 

[JohnBT]

"the once-lowly .22"

It's never been lowly. Bill Ruger built an empire on .22 handguns starting in 1949. Now maybe some folks never learned about them or forgot about them, but millions of us didn't and I'm going back as far as my grandparents who were born in the early 1890s. Look at all of the old well-worn .22s for sale on any given day, there are millions of them. Lowly? Not hardly. Cherished and respected and proven.

John

 

[pps]

Cherished and respected and proven.

+1 Here is my oldest girl learning to shoot with my GREAT grand fathers Winchester model 67. This gun holds tighter groups than my 10-22

 

[chris in va]

I like to call the 22lr a "miniature 357".

Heard of many people getting killed with it. I know of one first hand, saw the body laying on the sidewalk all afternoon as the investigators did their thing. Also made me get my CC permit and eventually move out of the area.