A new respect for the .22 lately.

[mljdeckard]

I carry a knife always. I carry a knife in places I'm not allowed to carry a gun. But there's a reason it's ALWAYS stupid to carry a knife to ANY gunfight. The whole point of carrying a gun is to be able to defend yourself at a distance where you aren't vulnerable to someone with a knife.

That said, if you find yourself in quarters that close anyway, I would not definitively say that a knife is always better than a .22. Better than a NAA mini-revolver? Maybe. Better than my 1911 conversion with a 15 rd magazine? No way. (Again, I do not and would not carry a .22 for self-defense.)

 

[Milkmaster]

update 5/16/2011

I just bought a new to me Beretta 21A in 22lr. I took it out today to make sure it would cycle properly. No jams, and I have to say I was impressed at how easy it is to handle and how quickly I could get on target and stay there. 8 consecutive shots properly placed is going to be easy with this gun. I will be adding it to my stable of 38's, 9MM's, 38's, and other 22LR's.

Like my original post says at the beginning of this thread... I have a new respect for the lowly 22LR!

 

[yhtomit]

"Here is my oldest girl learning to shoot with my GREAT grand fathers Winchester model 67. This gun holds tighter groups than my 10-22."

Great picture, and congratulations -- a five-generation gun is surely a rarity. (There's one gun in my family that I think is be two generations older than me -- an old Colt handgun, neglected for so long I don't think it's salvagable, but I sure want to keep it around as a keepsake. Belonged to my great-uncle, perhaps to his father as well.)

timothy

 

[Kiln]

I have respect for the round as a practice round mainly and as a last resort for defense. I have literally shot an armadillo with 10-20 rounds of stingers from the Walther P22 before he died, same with possums so I don't exactly trust its power unless you get a head shot...then it only takes one.

 

[olafhardtB]

22 for defense

I shot a lot dogs with a 22 and some hogs too. Only one dropped dead. They all changed their behavior. I once chopped a guinea's head off and laid it on the ground. It jumped and attacked me, I had to fight it off. Since then I question knock out theories.

 

[Ole Coot]

Back in the 1950s growing up in Eastern KY I think I killed every animal that walked and know of a few with two legs that were killed with one. I could go to the local store and buy 22s one, a dozen or a box, whatever I could afford. I would venture to bet more game has been taken, including deer with the little 22 than any other caliber. It was all we could afford and we learned not to waste ammo. I do believe this is true of most older hunters that cut their teeth on one.

 

[couldbeanyone]

HB posted,

Anyway, I lost confidence in the .22 in anything over squirrels and rabbits. I have seen many squirrels shot with .22 rifles that still have plenty of life left in them, especially if it was a poor shot that was in the lower half of the body.

Hmm, since this would be about the equivalent of a 2 inch bullet fully penetrating a human being, I wonder what this should tell us about the importance of shot placement?

 

[olafhardtB]

I have found gut shots to be very effective on squirrels but not on rabbits. I think it might because a squirrel is harder than rabbit.

 

[Dirty Bob]

Everybody who has a gun should own a .22, if for nothing more than good practice. The lowly .22 helps us focus on grip, sights, trigger squeeze, etc. You can practice a lot for not too much money, even in these days of pricey ammo.

It's quieter and cheaper and therefore a good choice for squirrels and other small game and close range, and for pests. My .22 has accounted for several rats, with a CCI .22 Long CB Cap.

It's also the best firearm for introducing new shooters, as pps' wonderful photo on the first page showed so well!

All my best,
Dirty Bob

 

[Gord]

Said it before and I'll say it again: I wouldn't discount ten rounds of rapid-fire .22LR into COM as a compelling argument for immediate reformation of one's criminal ways...

Ideal? No.
Toothless? Far from it...

 

[orionengnr]

I'm not going to read five pages of replies...when I read this in the OP.

and how a well placed smaller caliber might just be as effective as an ill placed larger caliber.

Are you familiar with definition of a straw man argument? Because this is a perfect example.

Premise:
If you can't shoot a 9mm/.38, get a .22. If you can't shoot a .22, get a squirt gun filled with ammonia. Sorry, this argument approaches the ridiculous.

Reality:
If you can't shoot a 9mm/.38, spend some time at the range, and/or get some instruction. Only hits count. And a 10-round .22 is not a small pistol.

Bottom line:
If you choose to carry a .22, that is your choice. Hope you never have to use it.

 

[Lunie]

My uncle only survived a few minutes after a ricochet .22LR struck him in the chest.

Worthy of respect? Absolutely.

That aside, .22 is darn near the gold standard for putting down livestock. I haven't seen any that failed to penetrate either bovine or porcine skulls. (Of course good shot placement is very important. Good shot placement is even necessary with a .30-30, for a quick kill.)

 

[Dirty Bob]

As others have stated:

There is a huge difference between killing power and stopping power!

A bullet that causes the death of an attacker 10 minutes after the attack -- yet fails to stop him from doing you in -- could be said to be a "failure."

I did carry a .22LR when I had nothing else. I don't do that anymore.

The .22LR is, however, very valuable as a training tool and for tasks that don't require centerfire ammo. As I stated before, mine is a great rat killer. Several one-shot stops with CCI .22 Long CB Cap.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

 

[Big Bill]

I hear a lot about how a .22lr isn't to be relied upon to stop someone, but I think that getting shot at with anything would certainly deter most anyone... especially if it's a little 10-22 with one of those fifty-round clips being fired at a nearly automatic speed.

Well said! I agree 100%.

 

[alex4922]

As a paramedic and later an ER nurse I've seen many small caliber wounds. I'll let you be the judge on whether to carry one for protection or not.

One of the first calls I ran on a fire rescue truck was a shooting of a young teen by his whacked out sister. She was mad at her man and started throwing .22s around. Her brother got one probably in the heart. He dropped on the front porch and died right there. BAD

One dude decided to save some bread on a dentist and tried to shoot out a bad tooth. Most of his lower jaw came with it. Again .22

One young banger had a pistol pointed at him and put out his hand to grab the gun. The bullet went through his hand and lodged just under the skin on his sternum. I think this was a .25.

A dumb father left his .22 revolver in an unlocked glove compartment. His maybe 4-5 yr old son found it and took one to the head. In the ER it took a couple of nurses to hold the kid for xrays. We thought it had not penetrated due to the kid fighting as any scared kid would. Unfortunately we were wrong, the bullet was in the center of the kids brain. Don't know the final outcome.

The worst one in my experience was a 20 something guy. His friend let off a negligent shot that hit him in the throat. He arrived at the ER in good shape, good vitals, just a little hoarse. Dumbass ER docter couldn't take it seriously and this guy eventually had enough swelling to occlude his airway. He died struggling to breath. Nightmare stuff!

Nuff Said, Alex

 

[bergmen]

Current .22 Ammo has Questionable Reliabilty

Outside of the issue of whether the .22 is a good defensive cartridge is the reliability of today's ammo. This is a copy of a post I wrote on another forum I frequent:

We basically only buy .22 ammo in bulk form (525 round "bricks") and generally made by reputable sources (Federal, Remington, Winchester).

We shoot a lot of rimfire, always have, it is the least expensive, most fun way to have shooting fun.

Lately, though, we have noticed a discernable downturn in the quality of the ammo by all of the big three mentioned above. We have experienced variations in power throughout the range (mostly judged by sound and recoil feel as well as jamming by the semi-autos). No "squib" loads as of yet in that there are no bullets stuck halfway down the barrel on any of our many .22 firearms.

We have had an inordinate amount of FTF (Failure To Fire) rounds, all with good solid dents in the rim. These are from weapons that have proven to be solid, reliable shooters for years, so no questionable guns here. Often, we will rechamber and fire them without an issue but it is inconvenient to say the least.

Today we had a few again. On one, my step-son Tim pried the bullet off and dumped the powder out to take a look. What we found was an incomplete priming of the rim. Take a look at these pictures:

At the base of the rim you can see a dark open "C" shaped form with the opening to the right. This is the location of the firing pin strike:

This eliminates the cause of these FTF's with the guns, it is the ammo that is the problem. My guess is the powder measuring isn't very consistent either since we are experiencing variations in power (which has little effect with lever & bolt action rifles as well as revolvers but can be bothersome with semi-autos).

Anyone else have similar issues?

Dan

 

[mr.trooper]

I think the to be learned here is not one of caliber, but rather of typology.

Some day the materials and engineering will allow a 10mm to be placed in a pistol the size of a KelTec P32... But the gun will STILL not shoot for crap - even for those who could master the recoil.

Why? because the darn things are less than 1/2 inch wide with grips so short that you cant even get all of your third finger on board. Combine with a DAO trigger, and you have the problems your seeking.

This is why I have always said that the Sig P232 and the Beretta 84 are the IDEAL platforms for the 380. Sure, they may not be all that much smaller than a compact 9mm, but that's because the cartridges are practically the same size.

They shoot 1000 times better because you can get your whole hand on them, fill your palm, and use REAL sights.

OP - I carried a Walther P22 for a while. Not because I was enamored with the 22LR, but because it was the smallest gun that I could shoot respectably. The ballistic gel tests from the p22 gave me a bit of confidence as well.

Using QUALITY ammo (NOT REMINGTON) has never let me down. Wife and I fired 2K rounds of Mini Mags at Appleseed with not one primer failure. I fired several more K through the P22 when I had it with not one primer failure.

Rem / Win / Fed bulk packs? About one ever 200 rounds on average.

 

[13Bravo]

My Girl carries a .22lr. That's what she is comfortable with for the time being. She can rip off 6 quick shots in no time and is comfortable with it. I'd rather her have the confidence with the .22 and the ability to operate than anything else. She's getting better with the 9mm, and shoots the .45 like a champ. The weight of the gun is just not practical for her yet. I feel for the fool that make her use her .22lr. 6 of them in a second is gonna hurt like hell, and she knows to run like hell. You can "what if" all day and night long. It's a waste of time.

 

[Inksinme2]

Just picked up a little henry lever action this weekend and cannot wait to take it out. first time i shot one i was probably ten years old and have wanted one ever since, and thirty seven years i finally have one. I think I'll share it with my grandsons though.

 

[Carl Levitian]

bergmen- Remington is maybe the worst of the name brand ammo out there. I stopped using their rimfire stuff years ago and went with the Federal bulk box for range/plinking. Maybe just one or two duds per 550 round box. I can't recall the last time I had a failure to fire with mini-mags. But then of course the hammer drop on my 617 and Marlin 39 is a good one.

Carl.

 

[bergmen]

bergmen- Remington is maybe the worst of the name brand ammo out there. I stopped using their rimfire stuff years ago and went with the Federal bulk box for range/plinking. Maybe just one or two duds per 550 round box. I can't recall the last time I had a failure to fire with mini-mags. But then of course the hammer drop on my 617 and Marlin 39 is a good one.

Carl.

I have heard that as well from other reliable sources. I bought several Remington bricks when supply was pretty thin at my normal ammo stores (generally on-line).

I'll stick with Federal/Winchester from now on.

Dan

 

[ForumSurfer]

I feel for the fool that make her use her .22lr. 6 of them in a second is gonna hurt like hell, and she knows to run like hell. You can "what if" all day and night long. It's a waste of time.

I love my 22's, but the round is what it is.

I was accidentally shot in the jaw by a friend with a 22 at 16 years old. I can tell you first hand that initially it isn't going to hurt nor is it going to deliver stopping power. The cci hollowtip delivered all of it's energy into my jaw bone. I didn't realize I had been shot. At the most, it felt like a moderately stiff punch to the face. If I had been an aggressor surging with energy and adrenaline, it wouldn't have slowed me down in the least and I might not have even noticed. 6 of them center of mass may kill me later, but it likely will not stop me now.