Reason for the Chief Special configuration?

[TheProf]

Just curious...

Aside from being able to fire SA as well as DA, is there any reason for choosing a Chief Special configurations (that is with the exposed hammer), when there is the concealed hammer version?

(For now, let's not include the shrouded hammer version in this question.)

The concealed hammer (Centennial) version is more snag-proof, allows higher grip (that helps control recoil) and prevents lint from entering the inner workings of the gun.

Is it just cosmetics that people still choose the Chief Special edition...
or is there a tactical advantage in doing so? (Many consider firing in SA inappropriate for a self-defense situation....so is there another reason for this version of the snubbie?)

 

[w_houle]

I'd say so... but it feels more familiar to me, and besides, I like having the option of having SA

 

[thebigc]

i like haveing sa available even if i dont use it also how would someone know if you used single action for self defense anyway

 

[ltxi]

But as to the core of your original question....no.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Is it just cosmetics that people still choose the Chief Special edition...
or is there a tactical advantage in doing so? (Many consider firing in SA inappropriate for a self-defense situation....so is there another reason for this version of the snubbie?)

Personally I do not like DAO guns.
The short reason is, if I want to shoot fast I shoot DA, if I want to shoot accurately I shoot SA.

I'll give you a good example from just last week. I'm teaching a girl to shoot that has never even touched a gun before. Last week was her first time shooting. She was shooting the 3 inch S&W J Frame after shooting five magazines through a Ruger 22/45.

After shooting about 20-30 rounds through the J Frame, SA and DA at small targets, I told her I wanted her to shoot a large silhouette target DA, while back-peddling, moving to the right, then moving to the left.
All shots were CM or good solid hits, except one over the shoulder, one in the neck and one in the shoulder. Pretty good for someone shooting for the first time.

Now I told the girl I wanted her to make five head shots. Standing still, two hands, about ten yards and I suggested shooting SA, but left it up to her.

She made a smiley face with the five shots, SA.
Like I said, I figure DA is for speed and SA is for accuracy. Given the opportunity I'll shoot SA every time.

(BTW, the girl has now shot a second day and has moved on to the 45 Kimber, although she still likes the J Frame Smith. )

 

[W.E.G.]

For the average guy who does NOT shoot 5,000 rounds per year from a snubnose, his chances of making a good shot at beyond spitting distance is much-improved if the shot is fired single action.

I'll accept that advantage.

The you-must-fire-only-double-action crowd can ride right on by with their high horses.

 

[9mmepiphany]

from a tactical a standpoint there is nothing a exposed hammer J-frame can do that a enclosed hammer J-frame can't do, except be retained in a holster that retains the gun using a thumb break/safety strap over the hammer.

the largest disadvantage that a exposed hammer presents is a snag potential...yes i've had one snag on a shirt/jacket.

the worst thing about an exposed hammer on a revolver is that folks are tempted to use the hammer to practice in SA. when correctly learned, about an afternoon on the range and some dry firing at home, the DA trigger stroke is less likely to result in a flinch that a SA trigger...especially on a J-frame. i shoot a tuned S&W 642 and don't have a problem beating the SA crowd in timed fire out to about 50 yards

 

[bluetopper]

Weak handed inexperienced ladies are much more likely to get off an accurate shot using single action than trying to squeeze of a hard double action shot using their two index fingers from both hands on the trigger.

I've seen it many times.

 

[jfh]

I suspect the reason that many people prefer SA on their carry guns is because they learned to shoot 'for accuracy'--e.g., aiming through sights, developing a good sight picture, and then g-e-n-t-l-y s-q-u-e-e-z-i-n-g the trigger. And because of that kind of personal history, the gun makers have a good market for people buying their carry revolver who want DA/SA choice.

Personally, I think that SA is a bad way to shoot defensively--at least in today's real world of legal and political definitions of self-defense. All people who carry--and who carry j-frames--would be better off learning good point shooting skills for ranges under ten yards--and concentrate on those skills and not worrying about aimed fire after cocking the hammer.

Yes, I understand that there are very realistic considerations for aimed fire beyond perhaps fifteen yards--and that the situations described might even be considered self-defense. But, AFAICT, the people carrying j-frames (no matter which frame type) aren't liable to be worrying about aimed fire with their j-frames--they're trying to get to their real gun--the rifle or shotgun in the trunk of the car, perhaps.

Marketing, however, I suspect had something to do with it--remember that the Centennial design did not really get out until the 1950s--and that the "Chief's Special" (Or the Detective Special, or the Banker's Special) were ways to provide an alternate-sized sidearm to people who wouldn't necessarily be carrying a holstered gun on a duty belt, like "regular" cops do. Chiefs, after all, are generally considered to be desk-bound bureaucrats, right?

Jim H.

 

[LibShooter]

For me it's all about the SA. With my little .38 Chief's special snubbie, I'm pretty accurate shooting single action. DA, not so much.

 

[roklok]

I prefer the centennial design DAO. Mainly because I tend to shoot every bit as good DA as SA and it is a snag free, lint free design. I wish S&W made more revolvers with this type system including larger frames and longer barrel lengths. I have considered sending one of my 640s off to have a longer barrel installed, maybe a 3 inch. I have a 3 inch 60, but prefer the hammerless design.

 

[TheProf]

I was thinking more along these lines...

1. One gun author says he prefers the Chief's configuration because when he holsters the gun, he can place his thumb over hammer....thus, he can feel if there is a potential snag developing on the trigger. If there was a snag on the trigger...he can feel the hammer moving.

2. Another person said that they feel better being able to visually see the condition of the hammer...that is if it is cocked or not. On a DA only, perhaps the hammer is "stuck" on the cocked position...and thus pose a danger. (Hmmmm...seems unlikely to me.)

What do you guys think?

 

[Bailey Boat]

I know it's more than me but I carry a 342PD in the summer and usually practice DA only as the gun is designed to do but even with my short fingers I can "stage" the trigger and let off what amounts to a SA shot when desired.

 

[eastbank]

i carry a old s&w model 60 in 38 spl.,that i dehorned the hammer on(you can still start the trigger pull and then thumb the hammer back to fire SA) as i carry in a inside the pants holster i don,t need the strap to hold the revolver in the holster. after adding C.T. lazar grips i shoot to 20yds and the combo is deadly in low light con. i have shot 3 sillo. targets as fast as i could at 20yds in just street light and all hits were center mass, not to bad for 66 year old eye,s . eastbank.

 

[David E]

A practiced hand can be just as accurate, or more so, shooting DA as an unpracticed hand shooting SA.

Guess which one there are more of.....

 

[Willy G.]

Snag free Schnag free, Use your thumb to cover the hammer when you draw. My 442 was bought for the ability of fire from within a jacket pocket and I think it looks cool.

 

[Guillermo]

there is only one reason that you would want a DAO revolver and that is that you value the snag-free nature of the gun more than the versatility of the SA/DA gun.

Personally...I like options.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

DAO is fine for some but if I am behind cover (maybe cornered?) and being fired upon I want the option of going SA as needed.

 

[Old Fuff]

The basic design of Smith & Wesson's inclosed J-frame revolvers goes back to 1887 and their Safety Hammerless/New Departure top-break. It was intended to be used as a pocket gun, or one carried under deep concealment.

Firearms are often designed and made for specific purposes, and this one is ideal for those that use it for its intended purpose. It won't hang up or snag when it's being drawn, and is well sealed to prevent the entry of pocket lint and dirt. I generally prefer DAO revolvers for pocket carry, but seldom for anything else.

These days the folks that shoot revolvers know less and less about how to do it, because this mode of shooting is increasingly going out of style. Years ago, "in my day" it was far easier to find trainers or instructors that taught the best way(s) to go about it. Also revolvers tended to have better double-action trigger pulls then what are now coming out of the factories.

To illustrate my point, those that think that accurate double-action shooting can't be done beyond point-blank distances should buy a copy of Ed. McGivern's book Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting (Available from (www.amazon.com). It was written during the 1930's, and be sure you buy a reprint because earlier editions can sell in the $100 range and up). You will quickly see that our current generation of shooters is absolutely incompetrent!

 

[hinton03]

This argument is why I choose the M49; best of both worlds.

 

[Guillermo]

This argument is why I choose the M49; best of both worlds.

Looks cool too.

 

[David E]

there is only one reason that you would want a DAO revolver and that is that you value the snag-free nature of the gun more than the versatility of the SA/DA gun.

Not true.

Another major advantage is that with the right stocks, you can get a higher grip on the gun. This minimizes the arc of muzzle flip, allowing a faster, accurate follow-up shot than allowed by the DA/SA designs.

If snag free, lint free coupled with speedy accuracy doesn't matter to you, then the DA/SA will work just fine.

 

[Guillermo]

lint free

didn't realize that the cylinder gaps were closed. Haven't seen one of those. That is cool though. If you don't have one of these innovative guns you could get a pocket holster and then lint is not an issue.

Like many, I have no problem with snags as I have trained myself to put my thumb on the hammer.

My SA/DA is snag free and speedy accurate, and I have the option of a single action shot. Some of us like options....some of us don't.

 

[jfh]

FWIW: I too have found that as I gained DAO proficiency--as measured by Old Fuff's "quad five" drills--my DAO grip evolved into a higher grip--enough so that getting the gun up for aimed fire feels "unnatural" now. As I think about it, that's obviously both good and bad. The higher grip, however, does contribute to better muzzle flip control.

I've also carried my 360 (the 'cheap' CS--the 357 Scandium frame with a 38 Special steel cylinder) for several months. My typical carry is RF jeans pocket, in a Mika holster. The Mika was made for a 2&1/8" barrel, so the 360 1&7/8" barrel meant the holster shrouds the hammer nicely. Both of these guns have boot grips on them--i.e., with my hand size, that's strictly a two-finger grip. The draw is not an issue for me with the 360, but my muscle memory for shrouding the hammer is not well-developed.

I did shoot the 360 almost exclusively DAO--but the SA trigger on it is the best from-the-factory trigger I have owned in a j-frame so far. I appreciate that--but I guess, insofar as I 1) use a j-frame for pocket carry (RF jeans, left inside vest/jacket) and 2) choose to consider my defensive parameters to be limited to point-shooting encounters, DAO is the way to go. Proficiency (at a cost, but I reload) is chosen over options, I guess.

'More' carry parameters would probably switch me to a 1911, carried SOB--or to a Witness 10mm with 15 rounds. And a spare mag. However, my overall threat environment is extremely low, so that's a rare consideration.

Old Fuff, can you (anyone else can chime in, obviously), elaborate a bit more on the enclosed-hammer S&W history prior to the "Chief's Special" marketing thrust in the Fifties? Was it sold mostly to civilians? Did these guns have a "police market?"

And, I think one of the History Channel's gun shows ran a few seconds of some movies of Ed McGivern's shooting--anyone else see it? IIRC, even two guns / two-handed, at playing cards, at perhaps ten-fifteen yards. And, maybe faster than even Miculek.

Jim H.

 

[Guillermo]

faster than even Miculek

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I didn't know that those words could be arranged into a sentence!