Recoil comparison 12 ga. v 45-70

[Seedy Character]

Back in late '70s or early '80s, one of them gun scribes done a recoil test.

To eliminate a multitude of variables and subjectivity, he took his son's little red wagon to the range. He put a tape measure on the sidewalk and say in the wagon.. He placed the test gun with the butt against the back off the wagon and held the gun down, to fire. Then, measured how far the wagon rolled.

He started with .22LR, which moved the wagon slightly.
Up to .243, .30-30, .30-06, .458WM, .460WthMag, 12 ga dove loads, mag slug and 3" 1 7/8 oz #2 lead goose load.

The .243 and .30-30 were very close.
The 12 ga dove loads were just below the big mags. The slug exceeded the .458. The goose loads exceeded the .460.
The wagon rolled over 10'.
The .30-06 was less than 2'

Stock design, stock fit, gun weight, and recoil impulse matter.

One other factor is shooting position.
The majority of shotgun shooting is done while standing and moving.
Shoot from benchrest, to pattern loads; even dove loads kick. A light weight 20 Ga with heavy field loads is a punch.

For decades, common rhetoric has been, .30-06 is the most recoil the majority of shooters can comfortably tolerate. Yet, they have no problem shooting 25 rounds of 12 ga.

 

[Terry G]

12 Gauge Browning A-5 with low brass 7 1/2 shot you can shoot all day long. A short barreled pump shotgun with slugs will get old quick.

 

[Bwana John]

I normally shoot A LOT more rounds when hunting with a shotgun compared to hunting with a rifle....

So I'm gonna say heavy goose and duck loads have more perceived recoil by the end of the day.

 

[nick22]

The worst 12 gauge experience I encountered was a Remington 870 with a 3" copper solid slug back in the late 90's it was really rough. Today's 3.5 inch turkey loads are probably close but I shoot autoloaders now. My 1895 is pretty snappy with full house loads however loading them down to practice with cast bullets keeps it fun to practice it's hard to do that with shotgun slugs both in physical and financial pain.

 

[buck460XVR]

The bore of these firearms is drastically different and the 45-70 has a rifled barrel where the shotgun doesn't.

But a shotgun has choke and amount of choke can influence recoil also.

As others have said, just too many variables to say.

Shooting at game or paper makes for a subjective difference too.

 

[Archibald Stanton]

Just curious so I thought I would get some opinions. I've moved a lot of lead down range using many types of 12 ga shotguns but never owned or even shot a 45-70.

Just for the sake of comparison lets use a 7.5 lb o/u shotgun (one barrel loaded) and a single shot 45-70 of 7.5 lbs.

For the 12 ga. lets also use 1 oz of shot and 20 grs of powder for about 1200 fps. Working pressure about 11,000 psi.

For the 45-70 lets use a 405 gr bullet and 20 grains of powder for about 1200 fps. Working pressure about 13,000 psi. That would be a load for a Springfield trapdoor rifle and very light.

The bore of these firearms is drastically different and the 45-70 has a rifled barrel where the shotgun doesn't. The shot/bullet weight, velocity, psi (chamber pressure) of the cartridge and shot shell are about the same.

Which one will have more recoil and why?

Answer. I don't know.

If using a trapdoor load, the 4570 doesn’t have much kick at all to me but it might be because I shoot the higher pressure loads a lot. The lighter loads kick less than a 44 magnum in a rifle to me. Which gun you are using would make a big difference as well.

 

[Archibald Stanton]

I think my BFR in 45-70 recoils more than 12ga, unless its a 12ga pistol, lol. Then they are probably close.

I’ve seen those 12 ga pistols but I can’t imagine trying one. I like my wrists too much

 

[SwampWolf]

Remember all the other variables…stock, recoil pad, fit, action type, etc….

All true but the most important determiner when it comes to actual recoil, as opposed to "felt" recoil is weight. Everything else being equal, the heavier the firearm, the less real recoil it will have; conversely, the lighter the firearm, the more real recoil the firearm will produce. Stock fit and design, action type, recoil pad composition, muzzle brakes, etc., all can help mitigate the effects of recoil in terms of how it is "distributed" but raw physics will dictate how much actual recoil is generated.

 

[illinoisburt]

Might it not be more fun and interesting to go conduct some field research and report your findings? You could have great days at the range trying out various combinations from light trap to heavy turkey or goose loads, then managed recoil slugs and maybe some 3" black magics. Alternate those with pipsqueek trailboss lead up through African safari loads. I am positive people here would enjoy seeing spreadsheets of retinal detachment and bruising.

 

[Pete D.]

Just curious so I thought I would get some opinions. I've moved a lot of lead down range using many types of 12 ga shotguns but never owned or even shot a 45-70.

Just for the sake of comparison lets use a 7.5 lb o/u shotgun (one barrel loaded) and a single shot 45-70 of 7.5 lbs.

For the 12 ga. lets also use 1 oz of shot and 20 grs of powder for about 1200 fps. Working pressure about 11,000 psi.


For the 45-70 lets use a 405 gr bullet and 20 grains of powder for about 1200 fps. Working pressure about 13,000 psi. That would be a load for a Springfield trapdoor rifle and very light.

The bore of these firearms is drastically different and the 45-70 has a rifled barrel where the shotgun doesn't. The shot/bullet weight, velocity, psi (chamber pressure) of the cartridge and shot shell are about the same.

Which one will have more recoil and why?

Answer. I don't know.

If you use two guns of the same weight. If your loads are loaded similarly….powder weight, velocity, projectile weight all the same, then you can expect the free recoil to be close to the same. Felt recoil may “feel” different, depend on the style of the stock

 

[jmorris]

https://shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

https://bisonballistics.com/calculators/recoil