Red vs Blue Progressives

[Walkalong]

5. Working up loads would by a PIA on either.

I'll have to disagree with that one. I run small batches all the time on mine. No worries. Of course I don't have to set up the expander and measure each time the way I do it.

 

[EddieNFL]

FWIW, of 230 respondents to a survey at the 2010 IDPA nationals, 199 used Dillons so they are obviously doing something right.

I don't post this as a knock against Hornady. I have a Red machine to provide some contrast with the Blue. It has served me well.

 

[RustyFN]

I'm sure we've hashed this over and over and over - but we can do it again for a LEE Turret-man if you like.

Just because I'm a Lee turret man doesn't mean I won't be upgrading to one of these some day in the near future. I would like to hear real experiences from people that have actually used both, that's why I asked you. Thanks for the reply.

 

[MickKennedy29]

I have used both my buddy's Dillon 650 and my own Hornady LnL AP. They are both solid machines and either one will last a lifetime or two. I think that the Dillon is more "heavy duty" than the Hornady, at least it appears that way to me. That's not to say that the Hornady isn't sturdy, it is and then some. My preference is the Hornady for two reasons. One is the primer feed system. On the Dillon a new primer is fed everytime the handle is pulled, case or no case. The Hornady only drops a new primer after a case has been primed. The second reason is because caliber changes are easier on the Hornady. There are things I like better on the Dillon, but due to those 2 things I would buy the Hornady again over the Dillon if I needed a second.

 

[KosmicKrunch]

I have a red set up....and a few green accessories. I even have a yellow Redding I use just for crimping. My dies are all Red carbide 4 die sets.

 

[mallc]

For Rusty 2

just because I'm a Lee turret man doesn't mean I won't be upgrading to one of these some day in the near future.

Just a friendly jab Rusty. Probably half my posts have been on this topic. Besides, I'm betting you've got way too much reserve outta that 8 ball turret to worry about changing presses now.

Merry Christmas Bud!

Scott

 

[griff383]

I cut my teeth on the LEE turret and probably wont ever sell it. It will be nice to have to work up loads so that when I get ones I like I can transfer them over to the progressive.

This is alot of good info and alot of back and forth between the two presses. This is exactly what I was looking to get out of my question.

 

[RustyFN]

Merry Christmas Bud!

Thanks Merry Christmas to you. I haven't been able to shoot enough to justify the upgrade yet but hopefully in the near future. I have loaded on a friends 550 and thought it was a very nice press. I need to go over and try his 650 but am afraid because he just bought a Super 1050. Wish I knew somebody that had a LNL I could try.

 

[mallc]

Come on over!

Wish I knew somebody that had a LNL I could try.

Come on over! We'll have coffee and egg nog and load a 1000 or so.

Scott

 

[griff383]

Scott, I almost wish I was heading home for the holidays. I could make a pit stop along the way and see your LNL

 

[griff383]

Something else I forgot to ask, what comes with each press? With the LNL do I need anything besides dies to get it running? The Dillon comes ready to run as I understand with chosen caliber when ordered.

 

[mallc]

LNL AP Kit

If you currently reload all you'll need is a shellplate for each caliber you plan to load on the LNL.

I believe the LNL comes with 5 lock bushings. You'll need one for the powder measure and one for each die in your setup. Some folks buy extra bushings and some don't.

You might want the pistol micrometer for small precise charges.

You'll want to check out this site for powder through expander adaptor: http://www.powderfunnels.com/ or Hornady sells set. Some folks use a regular flair in two and charge in three.

I use RSBC Power Cop for bottle neck cases and RSBS Lockout for straight walled cases.

Hornady sells a slick powder dump which fits into the rotating cylinder to facilitate changing powders - I highly recommend it.

That should about do it.

Scott

 

[GIJOEL]

I have grown up loading on dillon presses since I was 13 (now 26). I've used lee and RCBS among others and always thought that my dillon 650 (with case feeder) was just the nicest, slickest, and best built machine ever. That said I haven't used the LNL, I'm sure its a good press, but I doubt the customer service would be nearly as good.

 

[Redbeard55]

I have a Blue Press. Friend has a Red Press. He has used my Blue Press, but I have not used his Red Press. According to the friend, the Red presses run smoother but tolerances can be somewhat sloppy. If you don't fine tune adjustments on Blue Press, they can run somewhat bumpy

 

[BYJO4]

The current LNL AP comes with both rifle and pistol rotors and metering assemby. The new Hornady PTXs work fine for expansion and flare and cost less the powder funnel mentioned above. In addition to the press, you need to order shell plate for given caliber, PTX (if you want to expand & drop powder in same station so you get use a powder check die), and a powder check die (suggest RCBS Lock Out) if you that added safety feature. I assume you already have dies, scale, caliper, etc.

 

[MickKennedy29]

Griff383, I live in Dallas and would not mind at all if you wanted to check out the LnL. I am not sure how far apart we are. I live in North Dallas, in the Lake Highlands area. Shoot me an email at [email protected] if you want to check it out.

 

[joed]

Dillon still supports the 450, and parts are still available (and they sent me everything I needed free of charge, of course).

When I recently contacted Hornady for primer tubes/primer blast shield/shell plates, they said, no, we don't have them, no, we can't tell you where to get them, you really need to buy a new LNL. I have been searching eBay, etc, to find the parts...no luck yet. So it sits idle. I may put it on eBay soon (I've seen several sell recently, without primer tubes...imagine that)

You may not keep your press for 20 years. On the other hand, you may hand it down to your son. If it's a Dillon, he will still be able to use it. The difference in philosophy between the two companies seals the deal for me.

Planned obsolescence is okay for toasters and cell phones.

This is one of the things I haven't liked about the Hornady press. Ten years ago when I bought my first progressive I looked long and hard at the Hornady. At the time I was considering buying the Hornady needed 2 stages to load powder. One belled the case and the next poured the powder thus accomplishing in 5 stages what the 550 did in 4.

Sometime after I bought the Dillon Hornady made a change to combine the two steps. Then a few years ago Hornady made a shellplate change to help with ejecting loaded rounds. I heard a lot of whining from Hornady owners about the cost of changing over and the wait for the new style plates.

The Hornady press seems to be constantly changing where the Dillon is rock solid design.

But I don't like the idea that Hornady drops a press and will no longer support it. I've had an RCBS rock chucker for 30 years and 2 Dillon presses for 10 years. For what the progressive presses cost I'd hate to hear the words "We no longer support that model".

Just reenforces my Dillon decision.

 

[greyling22]

I read this article a while back and thought it was a very good read. It's a comparison of an xl650, LNL ap, and a loadmaster by a guy who seems pretty unbiased. in the end he settled on the LNL ap.


http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

 

[joed]

I have spent a lot of time on another forum where a lot of the members purchased the LnL over the Dillon. They aren't without their problems. I see complaints on timing issues and primer seating. Some go so far as to seat primers using a hand tool and then putting them in the press. To me that's not why I bought a progressive. If I had to prime my cases not using the press I'd get rid of the press.

Back when Hornady changed the shell plate I got a lot of digs in because they complained about waiting months for the new plates and then the cost of converting what they already had.

The biggest reason I can see for not going Hornady is the older models they won't support anymore. History may repeat itself again and I don't want to be on the losing end.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

If you are the kind of person who buys extended warranties, you'll be happy paying extra for Dillon progressive presses; they come with one. The others don't, but don't charge you for it either.

Dillon no longer supports the old powder measure that worked on any station, and did not need a down-rod. Dillon no longer supports (and hasn't for at least 15 years) press models before the 450 or the 1050. They also no longer replace 450 frames, except with 550 frames that have the loose tool heads (the reason many users hang onto their 450's).

I personally know two 550 users that hand prime every case because the on-press-primer is too hard to keep running right. It is continually gunked up with spent primer residue. Then there are the Dillon users who complain about the spring-ball-detent being too stiff and spilling powder from charged cases, the spent primer catcher missing spent primers, not to mention the squibs and double charges enabled by a manually indexed press with no station for a powder check die. If you really want to believe that only non-Dillon progressives have problems, you probably can; just close your eyes.

Andy

 

[Hondo 60]

Well, let me put it this way.
I have 4 presses.
1 - Lee Single stage
1 - Lee Turret
1 - Lee pro 1000
1 - Dillon 550

Once I tried the Dillon, I don't think I'll be doing much on the Lee presses.
I've used my Dillon for 38 spl, 357 mag & 45 Colt.
While it hasn't been perfect, the Dillon is just buttery smooth compared to the Lee presses.
After Christmas I'll be getting 2 more toolheads - one for 9mm & one for 223.

 

[Tim the student]

Anyone have anything to add to this?

 

[robctwo]

I have about 140,000 through my LnL. Had to send it to the factory for a fix at about 85,000, the set screws holding the base plate wouldn't stay tight. Complete rebuild for $0.

My auto index star broke at about 130,000, so I got to, in effect, run a Dillon 550 for a week. Auto indexing is the way to go.

I do not use the case feeder. I load a lot of pistol, and change calibers regularly. 200 an hour lets me feel like i'm having fun. 300 is doable if I'm in a hurry. Any more is hard and no fun at all.

I have no experience on any Dillons. Lots of guys at my club have them. Most of the newer guys are going LnL.

 

[rfwobbly]

Andy -
The OP originally asked about the 650. Now you throw in 550 dis-information. Besides these are 550 "issues", not "problems". How does this illuminate the 650 vs LNL discussion??

I personally know two 550 users that hand prime every case because the on-press-primer is too hard to keep running right. It is continually gunked up with spent primer residue.

Yes, when you only have 4 stations the de-capping and new priming is done at the same station. It helps if you actually work a tooth brush in that area every 1000 rounds or so. Maybe even wipe a cleaning cloth in there.

Then there are the Dillon users who complain about the spring-ball-detent being too stiff and spilling powder from charged cases....

They probably have their shell holder screw too tight which causes them to push too hard. It's a variable adjustment that admittedly calls for some OJT.

the spent primer catcher missing spent primers,

Part of complaint #1. Not new.

...not to mention the squibs and double charges enabled by a manually indexed press with no station for a powder check die.

Yes you have to LOOK at what you're doing, just like any other press. If you think you can add a Powder Cop and not look, then you are deceiving yourself.

If you really want to believe that only non-Dillon progressives have problems, you probably can; just close your eyes.

No, I happen to believe that there is NO one single perfect reloading machine. Like all machines, they all have issues which can only be minimized by operating them within the design limits. Gauging by the videos on YouTube it's fair to say every brand has it's share of ne'er-do-wells.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

rfwobbly,

What part of my post is dis-information? Dillon, Hornady and other progressive presses all have their problems. I was responding to earlier posts that mentioned only problems with the Hornady progressive, by providing information about problems that exist with Dillon presses too. Seems a lot of people who are willing to jump all over a non-Dillon presses' problems are a bit blind to the problems existing on Dillon presses (likely because, like most Hornady users, they have learned to solve or work around the problems to their satisfaction.) However, unlike some previous posts, I did not neglect to mention that all progressive presses have their problems.

I was also responding to earlier posts promoting Dillon's support of their older equipment, by pointing out the limits of that support. The old-style PM support issue is relevant to all of their presses.

I noticed you did not chide earlier posts about Dillon's support (or Hornady's lack of support) of older presses as being off-topic. If Dillon's support of a 450 or 550 press is relevant to the discussion of merit between a 650 and an LNL AP, are not the limitations of same also relevant?

With regard to the spring ball-detent issue, and tightening the shell plate too much or not enough, apparently this is a problem for more than a few users, since it is a well-published modification (apparently except by Dillon), as is adding a roller thrust bearing under the shell plate bolt head. The root of the problem is that the 650 indexes in one step on the down-stroke of the ram, which results in an abrupt shell-plate movement, and often in powder spilled from cases. The Hornady LNL AP solves this problem by splitting the shell plate advancement into two smaller, smoother half-steps, one on the up-stroke, and one on the down stroke.

If you use an RCBS lock-out or Dillon audible powder-check die, you do not have to look at every case's powder charge. I believe we all know that these machines are not meant to be run blindly, but reducing the number of things that have to be constantly monitored is a good thing.

Andy