Reflex sight on CCW pistol

[smince]

Sharps;

Doesn't putting the gun in concealment effectively block out the light and cause it to turn off like the cover would?

Anyway, Dale Fricke has produced the Seraphim holster for RDS mounted pistols available at http://www.onesourcetactical.com/archangelappendixcarryaiwbappendixinsidethewaistband-1.aspx It effectively covers the RDS.

Mass produced for the RMR-mounted Glocks, I believe they can be custom ordered for other units.

Of course, some of the new generation sights (like the RMR) claim to have an extraordinary battery life, so a shut-down feature isn't required.

 

[valorius]

I spent a lot of money experimenting with a reflex sight on my HK P7, for possible defensive use. My opinion? The current gen. sites are not up to par for the task. I prefer either pressure activated lasers like the excellent Crimson Trace laserguard (though still limited by it's red low-light only beam), or tritium iron sights.

In very low light, especially in an awkward shooting position, getting the dot in the window can be extremely daunting even under a no-stress situation. In a stressful situation, forget it. I made some modifications to my Burris Fastfire II to aid in this department, as can be seen in the pix below, but to me, the situation was still unsatisfactory. You would need to train A LOT. And by a lot, i mean A LOT, to be able to rapidly find that dot from awkward shooting positions in low light in times of stress. I just don't have that kind of time...

Here are some pix of the setup i was using:

 

[smince]

One of the benefits of the BUIS/co-witness is that it reduces the re-training time. When you look at the sights, the dot is there (without having to actually line them up). If the RDS dies, the irons are still there. Works like the similar rifle set-up.

With a higher front sight and the notch in my J-Point, I have no trouble finding the dot. And at really closer range, just looking through the window without trying to find the dot works fine for making hits.

My previous target isn't spectacular from a stand-and-deliver modern technique stance, but remember:

I wasn't trying to find the dot, but rather just looking through the window @ 7-10 yards, drawing and moving to the 9, 11, 1 and 3 o'clock positions

Also, the Burris unit isn't quite the same as an RMR, J-Point or Leupold DeltaPoint.

 

[NMGonzo]

No

It's going to be close and it is going to be fast.

 

[lostone1413]

Trouble is with age the eyes start to go with most people. Then the Red Dot can make all the difference. Also if you put the Red Dot on with the iron sights like Gabe does your still good to go if the battery fail good to go

 

[anewconvert]

Im interested in doing something like this specificually because of my eyes. I have 13/20 vision in my left eye, and 20/40 vision in my right eye, with that regressing. I also happen to be right eye dominant. I have a very difficult time picking up the front sight with my right eye and having it be on target. I have found that with a reflex/red dot sight I can get the clean vision from my left eye while still having the reticle in picture. that just isn't possible with iron.

 

[Al Thompson]

20 years ago Big Army would not purchase any sights other than iron for weapons. My, my, my how things have changed - for the better.

This technology may not be mature now, but I expect to see RDS on carry handguns sooner rather than later. FWIW, too many CWP holders are getting older and our eyes are going...

 

[smince]

At 50 yds today, using a day pack on the hood of my Jeep for an improvised rest. Draw and fire two rounds as quickly as I could acquire the center of the paper:

 

[JohnBiltz]

I swear if we had had this group in the 1850s we would have posts saying those new fancy brass cartridges will never last and the only reliable way to keep guns working is to hand load the chambers.
There is nothing experimental with red dots or holographic sights. They are superior when in use to iron sights, watch a pistol competition and see what the competitors are using and they did not put them on there because they are inferior. The military has shifted to them in a big way. They are proven in combat in some of the worst environments on earth over years and banged around on concrete in the cities of Iraq. Battery life for some of them is 8 years with an AA. Its not a question if they will be on CCW pistols its a question of when. They already own the military carbine.

 

[smince]

A new site dedicated to red dots on pistols:

www.reddotpistols.com

 

[smince]

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...arry/21604-trijicon-rmr-review-tsd-glock.html

A review

 

[NMGonzo]

At 50 yds today, using a day pack on the hood of my Jeep for an improvised rest. Draw and fire two rounds as quickly as I could acquire the center of the paper:

That is pretty good ... 11.5 x 8 paper?

I gotta try that at the range.

 

[smince]

11.5 x 8 paper?

Yes it was

 

[jeepguy]

i think this could be helpfull but what i don't understand is how you keep your irons with the reflex/delta point etc. becuse to me it looks like it fits in the dovetail the sight came out of. do i understand this corectly? if i could keep my iron sights and have one of these why wouldn't i? i would think it would speed up your target acquistion, but are they as accurate as irons?

 

[smince]

Generally you are correct. They do fit in the dovetail and are higher than the factory sights unless you have the slide milled out. This sits the RDS lower and you can add higher suppressor sights for a co-witness in the event of dot failure.

The J-Point has a rear notch that may or may not work with just a higher front sight. Mine happened to work with the highest front available from Dawson Precision, but it will barely still fit in my holster.

I plan to have my slide milled this year.

 

[Japle]

The "rear sight" on the JPoint is worthless. I love the sight, but there's no point trying to make believe it can double as a rear sight.

On the other hand, with this thing, you don't need a front or rear sight.

 

[Girodin]

The current gen. sites are not up to par for the task.

You used one of the lowest end sights and then extrapolated to the new and undoubtably better sights?

i think this could be helpfull but what i don't understand is how you keep your irons with the reflex/delta point etc.

On some guns one can have the slide milled.

 

[smince]

On the other hand, with this thing, you don't need a front or rear sight.

But you can have them. And why not?

Because if the electronics fail for what ever reason you can still have the back up system if you have the slide milled. Otherwise all you have is a very large close-range ghost ring if the dot fails.

Admittedly it cost more. So do most things worth having. I only went with the dovetail to prove or disprove the system for me without putting lots of money into it. It works as advertised.

FWIW, the JPoint rear works fine for my set up. Your milleage may vary considerably,

 

[jon_in_wv]

The current gen. sites are not up to par for the task.

You used one of the lowest end sights and then extrapolated to the new and undoubtably better sights?

So if it was a Doctor sight how would that of changed the results of any of the issues he brought up? It may have clearer glass and a brighter dot but you still have to locate the dot in the window which seems to be the hardest thing under stress. Its possible to lose track of the dot outside of the window no matter how expensive the sight is.

I"ll stick with my regular sights on my defensive pistols. I still think red dots belong on hunting and target pistols.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I've been thinking and reading a little on this and I think some points are being missed.

If things are happening close and fast what sights you have don't matter, you probably are not going to be using them. In this case even if batteries are dead or you can't see the irons or dot it doesn't matter because you don't have time or inclination to use them, its all point and shoot. For some reason this keeps coming up as an argument against.

My eyes are getting really bad. Not that bad for seeing but shooting is becoming harder and harder to do well.

Say I want this on my carry Glock. If I have it milled will I be able to see my stock factory Glock night sights or do I need to replace them as well. I'm assuming they will not co-register with the red dot. But would they be visible.

 

[smince]

If things are happening close and fast what sights you have don't matter, you probably are not going to be using them. In this case even if batteries are dead or you can't see the irons or dot it doesn't matter because you don't have time or inclination to use them, its all point and shoot. For some reason this keeps coming up as an argument against.

True. For point shooting (I am a strong advocate) whatever type of sights you have doesn't matter at all. This won't hinder PS in the least. If you can get the gun up high enough, just getting 'meat' outlined in the window will be 'good enough' because the gun will be aligned somewhere on the target. Like a huge ghost ring.

It may not be an A-zone hit, but holes in/blood out on a BG is always a good thing.

Say I want this on my carry Glock. If I have it milled will I be able to see my stock factory Glock night sights or do I need to replace them as well. I'm assuming they will not co-register with the red dot. But would they be visible.

No, the slide can't be milled low enough to use standard sights without getting into firing pin channels and such. There are tritium high profile suppressor sights that could be installed. IMO, night sights with this set-up will make the sight picture too 'busy', i.e. too many things going on in the screen to look for.

 

[smince]

More controversy:
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011...-services-division-advanced-combat-glock.html

 

[badgerw]

I have had a Trijicon RMR on my Glock 26 EDC gun almost a year. I plan to replace the battery in June, despite the estimated two year life. Here it is:

I found after a Close-Range Gunfighting class that I couldn't pick up the dot as fast as I liked. I added suppressor sights and "voila!" I can find the dot faster than I could find the irons.

I am 53 years old. I wear bifocals. To see the front sight clearly, I have to raise my chin and look thru the lower part of my lenses. That is not my natural reaction in a fight. My instinct is to tuck my chin.

With the RDS, I can see the dot clearly thru either half of my glasses. Or without them completely. Put the red dot where you want the bullet to go and control the trigger.

Sight alignment ceases to be a concern. Focus your eyes on the target. Put the dot...

Concealment? No problem. The RDS sights atop the slide, along the body. The butt of the gun is the hard part to conceal.

Holsters? My Tucker Cover-up works fine. Your holster? I dunno.

Snagging. Not so far, after about 1500 draw strokes.

One unexpected benefit: the RDS makes a great handle for cycling the slide. If you ever have to reload or clear a malfunction with one hand, this is a huge help.

After a year of carry and over 2000 rounds in training, I'm never going back. If your worried about EMP, get the Trijicon Dual-Illumination (fiber-optic plus Tritium) RMR.

Bill

 

[Deaf Smith]

Since I've been shooting about 40 years in all, and have used sights all my life I find the Refex sights do not help me alot, even on an AR.

This is mainly due to the ingrained habit of using sights, cheek weld, repetive positioning of the weapon, etc...

But for younger folk, I say try them. There was a day when a good set of plain sights were hard to find as the status quo was thumb nail size sights.

And yes, some of these newier reflex sights are very strong.

Deaf

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

On some guns one can have the slide milled.

That FNP 45 Tactical doesn't need milling, it has a small removable cover for the red dot sight attachment point.