Reloading ammo for a friend?

[Tallinar]

So I was approached by a buddy today with a proposition. He is a .44 magnum shooter, but is not a handloader. He was lamenting over the cost of factory ammo, and we got to talking about handloading.

I was talking to him about the virtues of shooting your own reloads, mostly as it relates to cost. As we talked further, he proposed the idea of paying me to make handloads for him, provided that he provides the components. I even jokingly asked him if I'd be responsible if his gun blew up. He laughed and said of course not, and would even sign a waiver if I wanted him to.

So I guess my questions are, first, is there any law saying I can't produce handloads for a friend at a small labor fee?

Second, what the heck is a reasonable price to charge someone for something like this? Since he's already providing the cost of components, all I will I'm really providing is the equipment and labor. What do you think?

 

[Navy_Guns]

Yes, you are describing the manufacture and sale of ammunition which requires a license.

 

[oneounceload]

The better way to go about this would be to have him buy his components, come over to your house and he reloads his own. You reload for him, and he pays you, without the licenses and permits, you go to Federal prison and lose all of your gun rights. If you odn't get caught but something goes awry, your friend WILL sue you and THEN you will go to prison..............Is it worth it?

 

[Tallinar]

K, good enough for me. Thanks.

 

[moonman16]

This question entails a serious personal LIABILITY.

 

[rjrivero]

Let your friend reload his own on your machine. I have many friends who have done exactly that. Reloading for your friends may indeed cost more than a friendship. IMVHO. FWIW. YMMV.

 

[Greg Mercurio]

Kind of a shame that friends can't do something for a friend without:

1) Legal advice
2) money changing hands
3) license
4) waiver
5) threat of imprisonment
6) etc.

Where are we as a people?

 

[Sidewinder72]

You can always use the barter system. I have reloaded for friends on a few ocassions, but do not make a practice of it. I work up the load with me shooting it. My first friend load was for my landowner who I hunt on. What was I to say, he couldn't find ammo anywhere. So it was started.

 

[Walkalong]

I reload for a buddy. He supplies the components. I reloaded 500 .40 for him about 5 years ago. He hasn't shot them all. I loaded 200 .38 Spl for him about a year and a half ago, he hasn't shot them all either. He is an old friend who goes to the range with me about twice a year.

If he pays you, it's a no no. If he supplies his own components (and no more), it's OK as I understand it. Silly maybe, but that's the way it is.

 

[orionengnr]

The better way to go about this would be to have him buy his components, come over to your house and he reloads his own.

Exactly.

 

[Tallinar]

The wright Bros. would be thrown in jail and Bankrupted if they tried to invent the Airplane today.

This.

So I guess I'll have him give me the components and I'll load them and gift them to him.

Then I'll let him buy a plastic ammo box from me?

Some laws are stupid.

 

[MovedWest]

I'm an engineer, and I do some consulting work on the side. I have one customer that compensates me in gift cards. Since the cards are not currency, legally it's a trade and no tax/revenue paperwork are due by either of us. I've had full time employers (with on staff legal counsel) award bonuses the same way.

Actually I just bought a new Winchester 1892 short rifle in 44 magnum this week with some of those gift cards.

-MW

 

[RhinoDefense]

The legal term is called "consideration".

If you make ammunition for anyone else while accepting consideration for it and are not licensed with a type 06, 07, or 10 FFL, you are doing it illegally.

You also need to register with the US State Dept under ITAR.

Then your liability insurance.

You seriously think a waiver typed up in MS Word will save your house, vehicles, retirement funds from some "friend" whom just lost a finger because the gun ruptured and sent searing hot gas to his hand? Get real.

I make ammunition for a living and carry a $20 million full liability policy, not a chicken scratch "general liability for a million" amateur crap.

Your home owner's insurance will NOT cover you. If you have other insurance policies on account, they will be closed. Find a different company and you better sit down when you see the premium you will pay.

 

[altitude_19]

On the plus side...

It can be a lot of fun having a friend over to show them how to reload. Might even talk him into setting up his own bench...

 

[qajaq59]

Sadly it always seems like a good idea until something goes wrong. It'd be better to let him load on your equipment.

 

[Win1892]

When I am shooting at my private range I set out reloads for myself and invited guests are free to shoot all they want. Every now and then someone shows up with a load of lumber, some poles, a bundle of conduit or pvc pipe. It just works out.

 

[Roccobro]

And here I've been buying and selling guns with my C&R FFL03 and Uncle Sam says it's OK. But heaven forbid I sell a box or two reloads to a buddy without an FFL06/07 ....

Justin

 

[joed]

Reload for him and use the barter system (I prefer to barter for cash). I load for any of my friends but charge for components and time. License? Give me a break, we're talking friends not commercial sale.

 

[RhinoDefense]

Joed, what you're doing is a commercial sale. If you are receiving compensation for ammunition you made by giving it to anyone other than yourself, you're manufacturing. "Commercial" doesn't mean "volume sales".

 

[bullseye308]

If I recall the law, it states that if you do this for a living or to make a profit for income then you need a license. Doing it for a friend and charging for your time(for example) probably doesn't come close to prifit. Charge a pound of powder or a bunch of primetrs for the loads and call it a done deal.

Another thought, if you let him use your equipment, it may not be bad to have him sign a waiver just in case & maybe get it notorized. You never know with some folks.

 

[oneounceload]

And here I've been buying and selling guns with my C&R FFL03 and Uncle Sam says it's OK. But heaven forbid I sell a box or two reloads to a buddy without an FFL06/07 ....

You have the proper license to buy and sell OLD guns - if you did it for a business without the license, you go to jail. For ammo, they require a different license and other registrations.

Reload for him and use the barter system (I prefer to barter for cash). I load for any of my friends but charge for components and time. License? Give me a break, we're talking friends not commercial sale

And that is illegal under Federal law. You accepted cash, that makes it a commercial sale - who the customer is, is irrelevant

 

[rondog]

Remember the first rule of survival in today's society - C.Y.A.!!!! Best not to expose it in the first place.

 

[THe Dove]

Do you drink Tall??? If so, then you and your friend can work something out I think???!!!

The Dove

 

[joed]

Joed, what you're doing is a commercial sale. If you are receiving compensation for ammunition you made by giving it to anyone other than yourself, you're manufacturing. "Commercial" doesn't mean "volume sales".

I'm sure what I'm doing is manufacturing, but we're talking about 3 friends not selling on the internet. Still illegal but my decision. I'm not John Dillinger and I hardly think the ATF wants to waste any time on me.

In actuality I'm looking at going commercial. Like someone else on here I started with a casting business. But I'm watching the availability of lead and have to think ahead. I can't begin to tell you how many people have asked me sell the bullets in loaded ammo, something I won't do without a license.

 

[jcwit]

I'm sure what I'm doing is manufacturing, but we're talking about 3 friends not selling on the internet. Still illegal but my decision. I'm not John Dillinger and I hardly think the ATF wants to waste any time on me.

In actuality I'm looking at going commercial. Like someone else on here I started with a casting business. But I'm watching the availability of lead and have to think ahead. I can't begin to tell you how many people have asked me sell the bullets in loaded ammo, something I won't do without a license.

Lets hope so for you're sake. I assume the shooter in Wisc. that had a M-16 go full auto for 3 rounds as a malfunction thought the same. But then he's sitting in Federal prison.