Remington Finished

[Micro]

It appears clear to me that speculation that Vista is the sole owner of the Remington name and Trademarks (which are very many and listed in detail in the court documents), and that Roundhill will not have the ability to use the Remington name in its manufacturing is not correct. Vista owns them for the purposes of producing ammo, but Roundhill owns them for the purposes of producing guns. (Not unusual - Winchester guns and Winchester ammo are seperate companies that both use the same names and logos.)

The Roundhill Group LLC bought the "Firearms Business," not just Remington's physical assets. "Business" is defined in the court documents as follows:

“Business” means the design, manufacture, distribution, marketing and sale of (a) ammunitions and related components and accessories under the Remington Brand and Barnes brands and Trademarks (the “Ammunitions Business”); (b) sporting and hunting firearms, including shotguns and rifles, and related components and accessories under the Remington and Dakota Arms brands and Trademarks; (c) handguns, tactical, military and defense firearms including under the Bushmaster, DPMS, Tapco and AAC brands and Trademarks (clauses (b) and (c), together, the “Firearms Business”); and (d) apparel, accessories, cleaning solutions and supplies under the Business Names and other Trademarks and trade names.

It appears to me that the "firearms business" will be able to produce, for instance "Remington 870 Wingmasters" under the Remington name, and use all the Remington Trademarks that Remington Outdoors owned in it's "firearms business."

I don't think Vista could build guns under the Remington name because it would violate Roundhill's exclusive right to make guns under those names and trademarks. Likewise, I don't think Roundhill could start manufacturing ammo under the "Remington" name because it would violate Vista's exclusive right to make ammo under those names and trademarks. Roundhill owns "Remington" for the purposes of building guns. Vista owns "Remington" for the purposes of making ammo.

This is a collection of the court documents totalling thousands of pages. It's all in there.
https://cases.primeclerk.com/Reming...o?DocAttribute=6065&DocAttrName=SALEDOCUMENTS

 

[mcb]

Further, it appears that the Roundhill Group LLC bought the "Firearms Business." "Business" is defined in the court documents as follows:



It appears clear to me that speculation that Vista is the sole owner of the Remington Trademarks (which are very many and listed in detail in the court documents), and that Roundhill will not have the ability to use the Remington name in its manufacturing is not correct.

Vista and Roundhill, among others appears to both own the Remington name and trademarks for their respective businesses. (Not unusual - Winchester guns and Winchester ammo are seperate companies that both use the same names and logos.)

It appears to me that the "firearms business" will be able to produce, for instance "Wingmasters" under the Remington name, and use all the Remington Trademarks that Remington Outdoors owned in it's "firearms business."

I don't think Vista could build guns under the remington name. They didn't buy the "firearms business." Roundhill owns that. Likewise, I don't think Roundhill could start manufacturing ammo under the "Remington" name. Vista bought that. Roundhill owns "Remington" for the purposes of building guns. Vista owns "Remington" for the purposes of making ammo.

Here's the document that contains the above definition. There may be others.
file:///C:/Users/parks/Downloads/M018141706476-rep-3009112230.pdf

This is a collection of the court documents totalling thousands of pages.
https://cases.primeclerk.com/Reming...o?DocAttribute=6065&DocAttrName=SALEDOCUMENTS

Interesting, everything I have read indicates that Vista Outdoor is the sole owner of the Remington brand and trademarks. That said I have not extensively delved the bankruptcy documents as that much legal language makes this poor engineer's head hurt. But I think Roundhill/RemArms has a lot of hurdles to get over before figuring out what name they will roll-mark on that first gun out the door. They axed all their engineers when they closed Huntsville, not a single one has been offered a job with the new company. Nothing like running a manufacturing job with a bunch of new to the product engineers.

 

[DocRock]

Interesting, everything I have read indicates that Vista Outdoor is the sole owner of the Remington brand and trademarks. That said I have not extensively delved the bankruptcy documents as that much legal language makes this poor engineer's head hurt. But I think Roundhill/RemArms has a lot of hurdles to get over before figuring out what name they will roll-mark on that first gun out the door. They axed all their engineers when they closed Huntsville, not a single one has been offered a job with the new company. Nothing like running a manufacturing job with a bunch of new to the product engineers.

People who bought early Remlins are familiar with the problem

 

[mcb]

People who bought early Remlins are familiar with the problem

 

[Micro]

There are just so many pages in all that stuff. It's easiest to open the documents, some of which are 1400+ pages, and do a Control F search for keywords.

So, there are lists and schematics of all Remington's trademarks (logos, symbols, etc) in the documents. It's clear Vista does own them, but for the purposes of making ammo. Likewise, Roundhill owns them for the purposes of making guns. Vista may have exclusive ownership of certain trademarks, like "Nitro" and other ammo-specific names. I didn't read every line of the documents. Likewise, I suspect only Roundhill will be able to use names like "Wingmaster" exclusively since it is not ammo a related, but solely gun related.

Obviously, there's nothing in there about who will be hired back. I think a link to an article at the front of this thread, or somewhere in it, indicated Roundhill is attempting to round up 200+ employees for now, with more to come. Richmond Italia has stated the first guns to roll out will be 870s. We'll see. It won't be too long before we'll know if they are serious about restoring Remington firearms to a place or prominence, of if they are just playing around.

 

[George P]

Interesting, everything I have read indicates that Vista Outdoor is the sole owner of the Remington brand and trademarks. That said I have not extensively delved the bankruptcy documents as that much legal language makes this poor engineer's head hurt. But I think Roundhill/RemArms has a lot of hurdles to get over before figuring out what name they will roll-mark on that first gun out the door. They axed all their engineers when they closed Huntsville, not a single one has been offered a job with the new company. Nothing like running a manufacturing job with a bunch of new to the product engineers.

You are correct - Vista owns the Remington trademark

 

[Micro]

George P, that's only partially correct. Vista only owns the Remington name and trademarks for the purposes of making ammo. Roundhill owns it for the purposes making firearms. Both have equal access to the Remington name and trademarks in their respective businesses. It's in the court documents that I referenced above.

There's a lot of speculation and misinformation in the various articles posted on line. The court documents are controlling, though.

 

[HowieG]

It appears clear to me that speculation that Vista is the sole owner of the Remington name and Trademarks (which are very many and listed in detail in the court documents), and that Roundhill will not have the ability to use the Remington name in its manufacturing is not correct. Vista owns them for the purposes of producing ammo, but Roundhill owns them for the purposes of producing guns. (Not unusual - Winchester guns and Winchester ammo are seperate companies that both use the same names and logos.)

The Roundhill Group LLC bought the "Firearms Business," not just Remington's physical assets. "Business" is defined in the court documents as follows:





It appears to me that the "firearms business" will be able to produce, for instance "Remington 870 Wingmasters" under the Remington name, and use all the Remington Trademarks that Remington Outdoors owned in it's "firearms business."

I don't think Vista could build guns under the Remington name because it would violate Roundhill's exclusive right to make guns under those names and trademarks. Likewise, I don't think Roundhill could start manufacturing ammo under the "Remington" name because it would violate Vista's exclusive right to make ammo under those names and trademarks. Roundhill owns "Remington" for the purposes of building guns. Vista owns "Remington" for the purposes of making ammo.

This is a collection of the court documents totalling thousands of pages. It's all in there.
https://cases.primeclerk.com/Reming...o?DocAttribute=6065&DocAttrName=SALEDOCUMENTS

Vista has a very strong market in the support roll for both shooting sports and outdoor sports. They would have exactly zero reason to jump into the "we make guns" swimming pool. That pool is fraught with peril. Roundhill is crazy trying to crank back up in New York.