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Renaming the AR15 and other "Assault Rifles"

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by giggitygiggity, Sep 21, 2013.

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  1. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Some of my weapons absolutely DO exist for that precise usage, and that is an important point relevant to something Dr. Meyer said before.

    So the Second Amendment protects what? Not "sporting" anything. "Arms." Arms are weapons and always have been synonymous, and reading the 2nd A. explains that pretty clearly.

    I DO own some sporting arms but most of my firearms are not sporting in nature. They are weapons.
     
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Member

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    Renaming them is an exercise in futility. The media outlets that call any black rifle an "assault rifle" even though it's not selective fire (excluding it from the actual definition of "assault rifle") will continue to do so. I think calling MSR's "American rifles" or "patriot rifles" is also silly because the AK platform is Russian and the Tavor TAR-21 is Israeli and there's a host of other non-American MSRs that are popular.

    I use "modern sporting rifle" or "tactical rifle" or "polymer rifle." I think the latter two are the most accurate terms and less obviously "spin" like "modern sporting rifle" or "freedom rifle."
     
  3. TrickyDick

    TrickyDick Member

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    I have this crazy idea, we should just call them "Rifles"...... Because that's what they are, nothing more, nothing less.
     
  4. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    I vote we call them wombats.
     
  5. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    I call my military service rifles (M1 Carbine, Yugo M70AB2, Mosin/Nagant 91/30 rifle, Type 53 carbine) military service rifles, civilian marksmanship rifles, historical curios, military match target shooters, which can be used as hunting rifles, vermin controllers, and self-defense weapons should I choose.*

    What I worry about are drug addicts who have invaded homes and killed people with knife, hammer and baseball bat for money or for drugs Rx or illegal (example disabled Iraq war vet stabbed this spring for his pain meds, couple beat in 2006 with a bat), and out-of-town drug dealers who have shot people with pistols (one such guy shot a woman for staring at him when he raised a ruckus at the Wafflehouse, another executed two local rivals in their "candle shop" then went back to NYC). The news media and politician talk about "assault weapons on the streets" is a lot of irrelevant BS to me. I have never met an "assault weapon" on the street and I do not fear what I own.




    * (Yeah, I actually have 5 shot magazines for my M1 and M70AB2 should I decide to go hunting regulated game with them on the mountain; as I understand it, no magazine limit on unprotected vermin but it pays to check the regs year-to-year.)
     
  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    The Second Amendment protects a people familiar with arms from personal ownership and use, prepared to volunteer to support and defend the Constitution against enemies foreign or domestic in time of emergency (in gravest extreme against tyrannical government).
     
  7. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    A rose by any other name..

    Since when did the AR in AR 15 not stand for Assault Rifle? How many knew it stood for Armalite Rifle? It's definitely not AUTOMATIC Rifle It is what it is. Changing the name will not change anything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  8. Warp

    Warp Member

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    It never did.

    Also, as has been covered in this thread, almost none of the "AR15's" are actually AR15's. Kind of like the facial tissue I just used was not Kleenex.
     
  9. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    You missed the point.. The real answer is.. Since about the mid 80s. At least for my understanding of the way it was used.. AR15-- Assault Rifle.. just like I for as long as I remember, the facial tissue has been a Kleenex. You cannot go back and delete a word from the common vernacular.
     
  10. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    I don't recall the gun magazines I read in the '80s using the term, but I could be wrong. I do remember when the gun bans started coming in the late 80s/early 90s the term was used by the antis and the press. Plus, many here would define an assault rifle as a select fire rifle, not a semi-auto rifle.
     
  11. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    Yep, my recently made Armalite is called an M15 and other AR type Armalites are called SPR. I think someone mentioned that Colt has the trademark to officially and legally use AR15.
     
  12. Warp

    Warp Member

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    No.

    Kleenex is a brand name and as such it is not wrong to call Kleenex, Kleenex.

    But the AR in AR15 never stood for assault rifle.

    Calling a Noveske rifle an AR15 is the equivalent of calling a Puffs facial tissue a Kleenex.

    Saying that the AR stands for assault rifle is something else entirely, and is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  13. Resist Evil

    Resist Evil Member

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    The "AR" mentioned stood for Armalite. I have also seen it translated once or twice in print in decades past as Armalite Rifle. Armalite sold its patents and designs for the AR-15 and AR-10 to Colt's Manufacturing over fifty years ago.

    The willfully ignorant, as well as the determined propagandist, have perverted the rifle's actual designation into a symbol designed to induce fear and resentment in folks who are products of the post-Vietnam era modern public school system. Poor things.
     
  14. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]

    You understand that the AR-15 is just a SUBSET of all Assault Rifles. I'd put M1 in there as well, but the term Assault really didn't come into play until the Vietnam war. The Thompson Sub Machine Gun as well.. but again pre dates. Before Kleenex, most people had actual handkerchiefs for such use.
     
  15. Warp

    Warp Member

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    This is WRONG

    An "AR15" is NOT an assault rifle.

    An assault rifle is capable of select fire, which means that to the federal government/BATFE, an assault rifle is a machine gun. Thus, an 'AR15' is NOT an assault rifle.
     
  16. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    and a Puffs is NOT a Kleenex that does not stop you from handing someone a Puffs when they ask for the other.

    You are talking a discrete definition by the government NOT the prevailing view of the US. Look at the overall understanding of the word. Jumping us and down turning red in the face over such a definition has the Anti gun people looking at you with about the same disbelief as if you JUMPED UP AND DOWN SCREAMING. "IT'S A PUFFS, GAWD DAMMIT"
     
  17. Warp

    Warp Member

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    A Kleenex brand facial tissue and a Puffs brand facial tissue are interchangeable. To use economics language they are "perfect substitutes".

    An 'AR15' is NOT a perfect substitute for an assault rifle. One requires NFA stamp/paperwork, the other does not. This is a very clear, very important distinction.

    An AR15 is NOT an assault rifle and the AR in AR15 does NOT and NEVER DID stand for assault rifle.

    A lot of people being wrong doesn't mean that they are anything but wrong.

    Example: Almost everybody thinks a football field is 100 yards long. It isn't. Everybody is wrong. Just because 95% of people who 'think' they know, think the same thing, that doesn't make them correct.
     
  18. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    I am seeing you all red faced screaming "PUFFS"

    They may be interchangeable to you, I'm pretty sure the owner of Kleenex or Puffs can tell you exactly how the products differ. I'm not going to try.. Think about the level of understanding for the general population.. I bet they don't know the difference between Puffs and Kleenex either. ;)

    My point is.. GET OFF the "it's not an Assault weapon" wagon. It's not helping..

    PUFFS, PUFFS, PUFFS!!!!!! :D
     
  19. Warp

    Warp Member

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    An AR15 is not an assault rifle.

    Get off this "we can just use words interchangeably because definitions don't matter" thing.
     
  20. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Of course, running ourselves up the flagpole of "It isn't an Assault Rifle" is a bit of a dead end road for us as well.

    There should be no reason at all that a law-abiding US citizen should be denied the right to own a true assault rifle, so making that some kind of special distinction, ("OOooh don't worry, it isn't an assault rifle!") just hurts us in the end.

    Yeah, it's annoying that folks don't know the difference, but the difference should be moot from a legal standpoint. If you could convince all the anti-gunners that these rifles are ok because they aren't deadly assault rifles will just bite us in the butt when we turn around and point out that we also should have no legal barriers to owning deadly assault rifles either!
     
  21. Warp

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    There is no good reason we shouldn't be able to go buy an actual assault rifle right now.

    But, unfortunately, we can't.

    The difference SHOULD be moot from a legal standpoint. But it's not.

    You know very well, Sam, that I am not trying to convince anybody of anything but not referring to them as assault rifles. I don't refer to them as assault rifles because they are not.

    Dare I say, that lying and pretending like they are because we think it supports our cause is a bad idea, IMO.

    I see no need nor reason to lie, misrepresent, or deceive about anything. I see no reason not to simply use proper and accurate definitions and terms

    To draw a parallel...should we call 15 round magazines "high capacity"? There should be no legal difference between restricted, standard, high, or super-duper capacity magazines. 5, 10, 40, 100...shouldn't matter a bit. But it does. So should we call a 15 round magazine that fits one of these AR15 rifles "high capacity", because that's what people know them as?
     
  22. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    I didn't say interchangeably. I'm not saying.. "patriot rifle", "Monkey wrench rifle" I'm also not using the very very discrete definition by the BAFTE. I'm talking the general consensus across this country. The majority think a Kleenex and a Puffs are the same thing. The majority think an AR15 is used when assaulting something. I think that the AR15 is specifically designed for making assaults. It is after all just a variation on the M16.

    If I was to pick from ALL the legal weapons available to me, Colt SAA, lever action cowboy rifle, bolt action hunting rifle or an AR15 to hold off a hoard of non peaceful people (that Z word we are not suppose to use).. or if I decide to become the mob and raid other people's stuff.. I would pick the AR15 assault rifle as my primary weapon, with a shotgun 2nd, and some semi auto pistol 3rd.
     
  23. Warp

    Warp Member

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    A Kleenex and a Puffs are perfect substitutes.

    An AR15 style rifle is not a perfect substitute for an assault rifle.

    I don't know why you so insist on being wrong.
     
  24. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh, I'm certainly not saying any of us should purposefully use the wrong term. But to go around vehemently correcting anyone over it -- especially in some hope that it will help our larger cause -- is probably at least a wasted effort, and definitely counterproductive in the long term.

    If you want to get semantically rigid, maybe do the clip-vs.-magazine thing. At least that one seems less likely to backfire on us.
     
  25. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Naaah, but it'll do in a pinch. ;)

    Probably just accepting that there is a limit to how much angst we really aught to let show over this sort of thing. Yeah, there's a technical definition. Yeah, the other side is misusing it, possibly to make a point, probably out of ignorance of the technical details -- and definitely because common usage has made the word mean a general thing to most people.

    I don't care for it, and I think it's sloppy, and I don't do it because it's dumb. However, it isn't worth raised blood pressure (or annoying your friends and opponents both over).
     
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