Revolver advice needed, SA versus DA for CCW

[Razor_J]

Hi guys, I am about to buy my first ccw and I really want a revolver. I have plenty of range time with automatics but frankly I hear that revolvers make good carry weapons because they dont jam and they are relatively simple to use under pressure.
I have been considering buying a Ruger LCR in 357. I do have experience shooting 357 out of a sp101 so the not quite a handful grip wont be that big of an issue and the recoil for me is manageable. The hang up for me is that my father, and some of the older guys I go shooting with claim that if I insist on getting a revolver I should get a single action. They claim that a revolver with a flip out cylinder WILL end up with a bent crane. I am aware that flipping the cylinder closed is plain dumb, but they claim that because the crane is supported on the front part of the cylinder and not on the back, that even careful opening and closing of the cylinder will cause the crane to bend. Moreover they say that buying a used da revolver is just plain foolish because of the above issue. Do you guys agree?
In the sa department I am considering a super blackhawk with the 4 5/8" barrel in 44 magnum. Again I have experience with a long barreled version of this exact firearm and I can run through a cylinder pretty quick with accurate shots. With a second or two between shots I can take a soda can at 100 yards 4 out of 6 times. I can stay center of mass at 25 yards only a tad slower than doing it with a 1911. I hear that sa is a foolish idea for a ccw. People claim that I should count on 1 reload atleast and that sa is just too slow to fit the bill. I have mixed feelings because my follow up shots arent bad at all and I am quick on the draw, even with the big hog leg of a full sized super blackhawk.
My third hang up is the legal stand point on this issue. I hear tell that if I shoot someone with a 44 in self defense/in the defense of an innocent bystander I will be accused of being Dirty Harry and they will promptly toss me in jail. However as I understood it, you don't go to trial for self defense unless something fishy went on and the cops don't buy what happened and decide to indict you. Frankly I don't intend on drawing my gun on someone unless they charge me with a knife/blugeon or begin drawing a pistol first.

A third party opinion would be very helpful everybody. As much as I love my dad and trust my shooting partners a little extra advice can only help. Thanks guys.

 

[451 Detonics]

No to malign anyone but the advise you were given is completely erroneous. I have revolvers that have shot literally a hundred thousand plus rounds and the cranes are just fine. I have S&W and Colts that are older than I am (52) that have been shot for 60 years that are just fine.

As for used there are things to check for but again most used revolvers will be just fine as well.

A single action for SD requires you to cock it before use. Now you have a trigger that only has to move a fraction of an inch with very little pressure, not good when your hands are shaking and the adrenalin is pumping. This can make it very easy for a prosecutor to make a case against you for negligent homicide. Caliber is really a non issue.

 

[mes227]

As to your third item, there's very little evidence that shooting "hot loads" has contributed to anyone's conviction for shooting or even killing someone in self defense. There is one case (I think in Arizona) where the issue was raised but in the ultimate verdict it was not a factor, and this singular case seems to have bred a mythology. It is certainly statistically irrelevant. But an important concern for both legal and moral reasons is the risk of hurting or killing a bystander due to over-penitration of your intended target or penetrating through a neighboring wall. There's no good reason to carry a .44 Mag for SD (unless against bears and bores) but an excellent SD round is .44 Special. Thus, if you want to carry that gun put proper SD loads in it. Most of the information I've read, and what I believe from my own experimentation, is that the ability to deliver multiple rounds to the target is more important than having a bit of extra energy in each round; thus, having a double action is important but loading to .44 Mag is both not important and risky. This is supported by the fact that nearly every American police & military force has shifted to modest energy rounds from semi-auto platforms (.40 S&W in a semi-auto is used by 54% of police forces, and 9mm makes up most of the rest with the occasional .45 acp). This is also what NATO and UN forces carry.

Certainly DAs are more vulnerable mechanically but the SA is more vulnerable to you getting killed. I'd carry a DA and take excellent care of it. One more thought: While DAs are more mechanically sensitive than SAs, the same is true for pistols v. DA revolvers. Yet pistols are the nearly universal selection of professionals exactly because the mechanical vulnerability is completely resolved by good maintenance while the risk slow round placement cannot be.

And, btw, some Dan Wessons lock the cyl at the front (I have 6).

 

[sixgunner455]

You probably want a double action, unless you are riding a horse every day. Single actions have some advantages for carry when riding a horse. Otherwise, unless you shoot one a lot (cowboy action shooter? hunter?), you probably don't want to have one for your carry gun.

You want a gun that is sized properly for carry. Unless you are very large, you probably want something between a 2" J-frame S&W and a 4" GP100/S&W 686 in size. That means you probably want a .38/.357 or a .44 Special, in the right gun.

The caliber is a non-issue in most areas as far as actually shooting someone. If you had justifiable cause to shoot them, it shouldn't matter what you actually shot them with. That being said, it has happened in the past that people have made a bit of a deal about it, but really, it is a minor issue.

 

[PcolaDawg]

If you want a revolver to conceal/carry, you should look at the Smith & Wesson 642. Double action with an internal hammer. It's a .38 caliber, but can handle plus P ammo which gives it a bigger punch. Very light, very concealable, very well made, very reliable.

 

[BrocLuno]

I'm not going to get into brand - I own a number and they all work. Same for caliber - well placed shot will do its job.

I don't have a CCW, but I keep thinking about it as I spend a fair bit of time near the border working alone But, I work for State Parks, so technically I can request Ranger assistance/back-up any time - but with budget cuts and growing workload that does not happen Point being, I think about this more than I need to

To me, it comes down what you might run into? If it's street corner car jackers in an urban environment, that's wee bit different that an armed "coyote" and 12 inocents in a canyon wash hiding from "la migra"? That "coyote" will be off to the side, armed and on higher ground. In one case you'll do with a simple handgun. In the other you may need a rifle behind the seat too?

In all cases, you need to take into account that you may not be able to cock the hammer. You may be in close quarters in an awkward reach, or you may already be injured if there was an attempt to remove the weapon from your grip. Open hammer DA's will always work in SA if you need them to. The other way around ain't happening. If you are down to one hand (either) and limited mobility - pull the f******* trigger and make it go bang

 

[rcmodel]

Moreover they say that buying a used da revolver is just plain foolish because of the above issue.

The only thing foolish is what your dad & his friends said about bent cranes.

You can't treat a DA revolver cylinder like a jack handle, but they ain't that easy to bend either.

As for the SAA being superior or less prone to damage?
I have repaired more broken traditional SAA's in the last five years then all the S&W & Colt DA's combined over the last 50+ years of working on guns.

rc

 

[JohnBiltz]

First hauling some hog leg around everyday all day will get old quick and is not easily concealable. Second, cops managed to carry hundreds of thousands DA revolvers around for most of a century pretty reliably. Third if it happens you need it and that is why you carry after all, one shot every second or two is not what you want. You want to dump 2 or 3 rounds into the target in the first second you start shooting.

 

[Snubshooter]

Can SA revolvers be CCWd ? Yes. Are they the best tool for the task ? Not really. As a new shooter IMHO you should start with a used Mid frame DA revolver like a S+W mod 10 4" or a 686 3"or 4" or a GP100 in 3" or 4". All in 357/38, PRACTICE alot with 38s, maybe take a class or two before trying to CCW. You will be happier and SAFER. Remember your best weapon is your brain, Pay attention to your surroundings be safe and PRACTICE!!!!

 

[Jeb21]

DA faster to shoot, faster to reload, easier to carry.

 

[jad0110]

The hang up for me is that my father, and some of the older guys I go shooting with claim that if I insist on getting a revolver I should get a single action. They claim that a revolver with a flip out cylinder WILL end up with a bent crane.

While I wouldn't "Bogart" the cylinder, or use it as a plow, it isn't that delicate. In fact, of the dozen + revolvers I've purchased, and of the hundreds I've handled I don't recall ever seeing one with a bent crane. End shake, excessive cylinder gap and junky triggers, and even a bulged chamber or two, yes. But not a bent crane.

While the SA can be a highly effective weapon in the hands of a skilled shooter, most of us regular folk are better served by a DA revolver or a semi auto of some sort. That said, I've seen a couple of local guys at the range who carry single action revolvers, and lets just say I pity the moron who would ever pick a fight with either of them.

One other myth, revolvers don't jam, isn't true either. They can jam, I've had it happen once with a turd Taurus 94 that came NIB with that problem. And I say this as a wheel gun nut (that's all I carry), but one should be aware that anything mechanical can and does fail.

Overall though, I have had few revolver problems percentage wise than with autos. A good quality example of either, if well cared for, should last a plenty long time.

 

[Cop Bob]

Jeeze,,,Bent Crane.. If you slap it shut by flipping your wristt like Gagney and Bogey in the old movies... a few hundred times... maybe.

I have been shooting, smithing and living with Smith & Wesson revolvers my whole dang life and I have replaced one.. REPEAT ONE bent crane in 50 years, and that was a freak deal.

Single action only revolvers are fine for out in the woods, or cowboy action, but they are should not be your 1st choice for a CCW...

Can you deliver fast accurate fie with one... oh heck yeah..

But can you do it strong and, weak hand, can you do it one handed... fast enough and accurate enough to qualify under time?

The sight options on most single actions are either hard to see, or they will tend to hang up on clothing..

The hammers are just MADE for hanging up on anything and everything you don;t want it too..

DA revolvers, the mods to them for ease and comfort of carry are pretty wide open, you can bob the spur completely off a DA revolver, I don't think that is a good idea with a single action... just saying.

 

[Razor_J]

This is all good advice gents, especially about how long these weapons keep trucking. I have a couple heirloom rifles which had seen many years of use by the time your grandfather was born and still shoot wonderfully today. I am glad to know that I don't have to be afraid of picking up a revolver made 40 years ago. I have seen some classics I would like to have for the having. Given that I am in college and my pay sucks I am going to have to be choosy about getting a good pistol to protect myself with. I think I will go for the LCR in 357. I can practice with 38's and keep a chamber of buffalo's tactical snubbie rounds in 357 for when I am out. Apparently they are formulated to cut down on flash and still keep the velocity as high as possible. Since I am here already indulging on your advice, perhaps I can be slightly more indulgent and ask about those little rings that the cartridges fit on which allow one to load a whole cylinder at once. It isnt that bulky knobbed thing. They are called moon clips I think. Do they make those for the LCR?

 

[Jim Watson]

No.
Moon clips for regular rimmed cartridges require milling the cylinder and furnishing clips to fit. Pinnacle will cut a SP101 for clips but I do not think the LCR cylinder is the same diameter. And it is not a great help anyhow; long skinny revolver rounds in a paper thin clip flop around a lot more than a short stubby .45 ACP in a stiffer clip.

 

[Rick Roll]

My vote is for DAO.

I've attached a picture of my Ruger SP-101 2.25" DAO .357 mag. It's my new/favorite carry gun. So simple.

Note: It is hefty. I personally like the weight of it, but I have seen where others do not. If you are really worried about weight, lean towards the LCR.

 

[Razor_J]

Eh thats the thing, the sp101 I have experience shooting is a dao. It was my moms and she used to carry it in her purse. I fidn it to be a little big despite the fact that I like it alot. Given that I am big around the middle iwb carry is most certainly out and I cant carry that weapon in my pocket of my shorts without suspenders and a hell of a custom pocket. The LCR is a tad light compared to the sp101 but it has unbeatable stopping power for a gun that qualifys in the deep cover category. At a gunshow once I had a dealer kind enough to let me put it in my shorts pocket and walk about some to see how it felt from a weight distribution stand point. It felt great and it would require zero modification to my wardrobe. I buy clothes with big pockets out of habit because of the utility potential which I do make use of quite often. I also want to get the wallet holster (not the kind that has a hole ready for you to shoot through) but is a holster with a leather square sewn on the side of it so it prints like a wallet. If I bought the sp101 I would carry it in a shoulder holster or on my belt (strong side) and get a windbreaker that will cover it. Of course if I cant pocket carry which I really really really want to do I might as well upgrade to a short 629 s&w because I would also really love a carry gun in 44 mag and if I am using a shoulder holster/strong side carry I can go ahead and get a beefier gun. I think the LCR is the best match up of what I want vs what i need vs what I can afford.

 

[NG VI]

I think they are just trying to get all the sweet low-priced used S&W and Ruger revolvers for themselves.


And autos aren't so unreliable that they make a poor defense choice. Even on the off chance that one malfunctions during a shooting, the bulk of malfunctions can be cleared in just a few seconds.

 

[Remllez]

Buy one of each!!!!

 

[Strahley]

1. you want "easy to operate under pressure" yet you're considering a gun you have to manually cock each shot?

2. revolvers can jam, just like anything else. difference is that if a revolver malfunctions (not counting ammo related problems) you're pretty much out of the fight until you take it to a gunsmith

3. yes, 44 magnum is overkill for self defense, and could possibly work against you in court. 357 mag is more than enough horsepower to stop a human attacker

4. there are plenty of semi-autos that are just as easy to operate as a revolver (point and click, no manual safety) - glock, xd, sig, s&w m&p, etc

 

[jad0110]

2. revolvers can jam, just like anything else. difference is that if a revolver malfunctions (not counting ammo related problems) you're pretty much out of the fight until you take it to a gunsmith

And to be clear, autos can have the same kind of total meltdown type of failure requiring tools to repair. I've experienced one major malfunction with a revolver, and another with a semi auto. All in all, the semi auto failure was the most serious.

All good reason to be sure of your chosen arm's reliability before relying on it.

 

[bergmen]

Cranes are bent by abusive handlers...

not because they are DA revolvers.

In addition, reloadability under stress is a factor in considering a handgun for CCW use. Single actions are not generally considered suitable for at least this reason (as well as others).

JMHO

Dan

 

[moxie]

Razor_J,
Sounds like what you want is a pocket gun and I can heartily recommend the LCR for that role. You will be happy with one.

 

[SaxonPig]

No SAR would be the best choice for carry and the 44 Magnum would not be a good choice due to excessive recoil and penetration.

Soooo... An SAR in 44 Magnum? Only if it was the only gun I had or could get.

 

[22-rimfire]

I would choose the LCR or Smith 642/442 for self defense and carry. I don't think you need 357 mag for self defense as unlikely as it might be. Shooting 357's in these small light revolvers is just painful and I wouldn't consider shooting 38's a walk in the park either if you shoot many revolvers.

I would not get a SA for defensive purposes unless you just like them and want one at home or out in the woods. For me, single actions are for the woods and generally I want them in 38 or larger calibers.

I think the 44 mag is unnecessary for defensive purposes unless you already have one and want to use it for that.