Rioters fire on French police, injuring 10

Status
Not open for further replies.
Unarmed shooter said:
I believe France can revoke someones citizenship? (and have done so?)

I remember it being discussed.

Of course all it does is create two classes of citizen, and I'm not in favour of that. Some seem to think that way anyway, as it would seem from the quote in my second post in this thread. All very interesting to me.
 
This is not about anarchists, political repression, a racist state or lack of economic oppurtunities. Its about a large number of spoiled youths for whom noone - not their parents, not society and certainly not the state - has managed to instill any sense of discipline or respect for anything at all; something that is aided and abetted by society and especially the media generally absolving the individual of responsibility for their own actions. Just look at how this thing started - I mean, how on earth were the Police meant to stop someone from running into a power substation when they cant catch them in the first place?

Of course, these youths exist to greater or lesser degrees everywhere; but the problem in France is you have a long history of "liberal" ideas in the justice, especially youth justice, system combined with immigration dumping policies of the sort that have provoked lesser disturbances over here in the UK. Now Sarkozy has come along, speaking a language that anyone who has even an ounce of common sense realises is correct, and the spoilt youth dont like it and are kicking off - beating old men to death, setting disabled women and bus passengers on fire, stoning children, burning down schools, churches and nurseries, attacking firemen and shooting at police officers. Having seen that the first fatality has just been reported - a 61 year old man having been beaten to death for the heinous offence of stopping his bin being set alight by a mob of youths - half of me thinks that you lot may have been right all along.

Agree 100%

All right, now who ARE you, and what have you done with our Agricola?:D
 
longeyes said:
What you say is true--as far as it goes. But the reality is that the rioters and thugs are almost entirely Muslim. The spoiled French non-Muslim kids aren't rioting.

Based on my own experiences over here that isnt the case; and even when it is (we have a gang called the "Muslim Boys") they wouldnt be recognized as muslim by anyone - they have just stolen the name to make themselves sound tougher than they actually are.
 
TheEgg said:
Agree 100%

All right, now who ARE you, and what have you done with our Agricola?:D

lol

Still the same, its just the more experience one has of the British youth justice system the more you realise what an unworkable, entirely counter-productive disaster it is. Also I think you'll find my views on the media have not changed one bit :neener:
 
agricola said:
Based on my own experiences over here that isnt the case; and even when it is (we have a gang called the "Muslim Boys") they wouldnt be recognized as muslim by anyone - they have just stolen the name to make themselves sound tougher than they actually are.

I have heard this arguement before with Middle Eastern terrorists. How many people need to bomb westerners while screaming "allah akhabar!" and "jihad!" before we are allowed to say we are being attacked by Muslims?
 
This is not about anarchists, political repression, a racist state or lack of economic oppurtunities. Its about a large number of spoiled youths for whom noone - not their parents, not society and certainly not the state - has managed to instill any sense of discipline or respect for anything at all; something that is aided and abetted by society and especially the media generally absolving the individual of responsibility for their own actions.

Actaully someone has instilled values in them, and they have done an excellent job, of inculturating them in the Values of 70 virgins, and the importance of a martyrs death while fighting the infidels.

Anyone care to guess who is teaching these youths their values??????
 
Fletchette said:
I have heard this arguement before with Middle Eastern terrorists. How many people need to bomb westerners while screaming "allah akhabar!" and "jihad!" before we are allowed to say we are being attacked by Muslims?

You misunderstand me, though as i didnt explain myself thats not surprising. what i meant was is that these youths smoke dope, sell crack, whore around, steal, rob and sometimes rape, get involved in gangsta culture etc. They only affect themselves as Muslims because they think it gives them respect and/or makes people fear them; certainly the ones I have ever had dealings with have never asked me for the Quran, or asked which way is East, or asked for Halal food.

Where former gang members have become fundamentalist (such as the 7th July bomber Jermaine Lindsay and shoe bomber Richard Reid) it is because they saw Islam as a way out of what is definately a feckless existence. If they didnt turn into terrorists as a result it would be commendable.
 
No-one is saying that we aren't being attacked by muslims.

I'm curious here - why is no-one using this opportunity to attack the French? I mean they're an easy target, and accusations of French society being racist are commonplace, after all Jean-Marie Le Pen did rather well in some election some time ago.

I'm curious as to why (despite the amusingly witty 'surrender' jokes) the French are getting a pass here. Anyone got a theory?
 
Iain said:
No-one is saying that we aren't being attacked by muslims.

I'm curious here - why is no-one using this opportunity to attack the French? I mean they're an easy target, and accusations of French society being racist are commonplace, after all Jean-Marie Le Pen did rather well in some election some time ago.

I'm curious as to why (despite the amusingly witty 'surrender' jokes) the French are getting a pass here. Anyone got a theory?

Hmmm. Well I did start the "What should France do?" poll...

I do not absolve the French by any means. It would be a minor annoyance if they were simply the snobs that treat us badly when we visit Paris on vacation, but the French have been actively sabotaging our efforts to combat Islamic extremists all over the world. They are helping Iran with their nuclear reactor. They sold Saddam GPS jammers. They completely ignored the U.N. "embargo" and were lining their pockets at the expense of the Iraqi people. Now, they are fighting Islamic terrorists on their own soil. I see it as a win-win situation!:D
 
You misunderstand me, though as i didnt explain myself thats not surprising. what i meant was is that these youths smoke dope, sell crack, whore around, steal, rob and sometimes rape, get involved in gangsta culture etc. They only affect themselves as Muslims because they think it gives them respect and/or makes people fear them; certainly the ones I have ever had dealings with have never asked me for the Quran, or asked which way is East, or asked for Halal food.

I think you are confirming an ugly truth: Radical Islam combined with permissive socialism is a poisonous brew.

Go to jihadwatch.com for visual/aural proof that the doings in France involve Islamic extremism.
 
Iain said:
No-one is saying that we aren't being attacked by muslims.

I'm curious here - why is no-one using this opportunity to attack the French? I mean they're an easy target, and accusations of French society being racist are commonplace, after all Jean-Marie Le Pen did rather well in some election some time ago.

I'm curious as to why (despite the amusingly witty 'surrender' jokes) the French are getting a pass here. Anyone got a theory?

Its probably because people recognize that this is gang violence masquerading as social unrest. I'd also question whether French society is racist - as I see it, all they ask is that aspiring Frenchmen aspire to the same principles as those who live there already; and its not as if behaviour like this is going to make people sit up and notice that the people from the banlieu are all right after all, is it?

As you mention him, I would imagine Le Pen and the FN are delighted at current events, gleefully awaiting the next elections where they will no doubt clean up - after all, these youths have made it that much more easy for him to say he was right and everyone else was wrong (just as the BNP made a lot of headway after Bradford and Oldham after those riots).
 
I've no real reason to believe that French society is particularly racist either. And you're right, Le Pen will be delighted. If he did well out of protest votes against Chirac and Jospin, imagine how well he'll do out of this. I'd imagine at least as well as the BNP did.

What I'm asking though is this - right now there are two possible causes for these riots being discussed on THR. Of course there is no real indication that either is correct or whether both play a role, but here they are -

1. French society is racist and opportunities for immigrants are restricted (at least in the eyes of the rioters)
2. Muslims

So why is it that many seem to be opting for 2 when 1 gives them some significant Frog-bashing ammunition?
 
Iain said:
What I'm asking though is this - right now there are two possible causes for these riots being discussed on THR. Of course there is no real indication that either is correct or whether both play a role, but here they are -

1. French society is racist and opportunities for immigrants are restricted (at least in the eyes of the rioters)
2. Muslims

So why is it that many seem to be opting for 2 when 1 gives them some significant Frog-bashing ammunition?

I think it is both. The French really are racist and hassle the immigrants, and these particular immigrants have a really short fuse.

As I said before, it is a win-win situation!
 
I'll elaborate.

One of my very best friends (he is also my business partner) is an Iranian-born Kurd that had the misfortune of escaping Iran to France. He lived in France for several years and has told me many a story of being hassled by the French police. I won't go into detail, but if the things they did were done inthe U.S. there would be a sizable lawsuit. All of this happened about 15 years ago.

The other thing that he says is that the Muslims in the immigrant zones are equally racist due to their religious beliefs. (My friend is non-religious). He states quite flatly that if he and I walked down the street when he lived there, he would be beaten up for associating with an "infidel" (I am white with blond hair). I would be killed.

Now granted, this is simply the opinion of one person, but it seems to be in complete agreement with everything that is going on.
 
Iain said:
I've no real reason to believe that French society is particularly racist either. And you're right, Le Pen will be delighted. If he did well out of protest votes against Chirac and Jospin, imagine how well he'll do out of this. I'd imagine at least as well as the BNP did.

What I'm asking though is this - right now there are two possible causes for these riots being discussed on THR. Of course there is no real indication that either is correct or whether both play a role, but here they are -

1. French society is racist and opportunities for immigrants are restricted (at least in the eyes of the rioters)
2. Muslims

So why is it that many seem to be opting for 2 when 1 gives them some significant Frog-bashing ammunition?

Thats the thing though; your option one is the excuse that is trotted out every time these things happen. The problem with it is that it is an excuse, for two reasons:

i) the people who are doing the rioting are not deprived, they are not discriminated against by the job market / state whoever. In most cases they are discriminated against because of their own actions - one imagines in the US someone who has a criminal record is less likely to be hired than someone without one. The French could introduce positive discrimination, change their laws and throw money at these housing estates and nothing would change because the rioters want something without working in order to get it and have no respect for the system that would allow such a deal to work anyway. Please note that there is a difference between the rioters and those who live on those estates.

ii) it excludes those people who live in those areas, who arent rioting (in fact the same people who are seeing their schools, their daycare centres and their buses going up in flames) and who have jobs through which they support themselves and their families and attempt to better themselves. Its not glamorous, its often hard and unpleasant work and it can take a generation or two but it is the way that immigrant communities become integrated into a host society, how they become a success and ultimately how racists like Le Pen are defeated.

I, of course, subscribe to option 3 - that these riots are the actions of a criminal minority trying to flex its muscles, at the expense of those who live in those estates, and society generally.
 
While I don't pretend to understand the situation intimately, Agricola's assessment rings of truth to me.

I don't dismiss the Islamism influence for the manner in which these things are spreading and catching ahold in a wide geographical area, but as horrific as the property damage is, if our news reports of the actual person/person human violence at this point are accurate, it seems to me that most of these rioters are behaving more like soccer "hooligans" or like American rioters following a sports victory than like people bent on murder.

I don't believe it's for lack of opportunity - though no doubt anti-gunners will sneer that it's our firearms that cause some of our riots to be more lethal - as an example, they burned a bus yesterday where they first disembarked the passengers - I think at this point if they were truly interested in murder there'd be a lot more dead bodies.
 
it excludes those people who live in those areas, who arent rioting (in fact the same people who are seeing their schools, their daycare centres and their buses going up in flames) and who have jobs through which they support themselves and their families and attempt to better themselves. Its not glamorous, its often hard and unpleasant work and it can take a generation or two but it is the way that immigrant communities become integrated into a host society, how they become a success and ultimately how racists like Le Pen are defeated.

Unfortunately, today's multiculturalist socialism doesn't want to wait a gen or two, much less find themselves assimilated.

Are these kids just gangstas? Yeah, but that ignores the fact that radical Islam itself is nothing but a variant of gangsterism, not true religious expression.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top